Preparing for COVID-19

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HRC_64 said:
They are sensitive (will pick up results) and specific (ID correctly), provided there is actual DNA/RNA on the swab. You might have a bunch of negative swabs for various reasons.

Two failure modes for false negative can be compared:
1) sample error - you sample location X when virus is in location Y, etc
2) technical error - your swab is correct, but the test is wrecked in the lab

In the earlier not, the "virus is hiding" conveys the sample error. you test with swab in location x positive and then you retest in location x and the swab tests negative...virus is hiding in location Y and you didn't test there.

In your formulation, "tests are terribly inaccurate" could be read as high probability of "technical error" = "innacurate test" since you DO the testing correcly and should have a positive swab but your swab result from the las is wrong ("negative") despite putting a positive swab in the mail/machine etc.

However, there are now #4 of case reports in CHINA, JAPAN, SOUTH KOREA, and USA/GUAM.

These cannot AFAIK be linked to single failure mode very easily. As more indepenent events start to pile up, a common "stochastic error" is less teneble. And the "technical error" (human/design mistake) gets less likely because each country has its own labs/test team/test design engieneer etc.

here are the press reports if anyone wants to folow up.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...ents-unable-to-shed-coronavirus-idUSKCN2240HIhttps://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2020/02/28/national/coronavirus-reinfection/Coronavirus May ‘Reactivate’ in Cured Patients, Korean CDC Says
<Bloomberg - Are you a robot?>
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As to the tests, the other possibility for false negative is remnant rna fragments...can't be cultured in a lab therefore not contagious.
 
I’m not nearly as smart as you guys but r we saying I SHOULDN’T inject Lysol into my veins? All joking aside,the problem is the news actually has to tell people to not do that. I would have let it slide and let natural selection take its place. People r so dumb.
I don’t know much about this virus but my grandmother is in a nursing home in NJ and tested positive. She didn’t really have any symptoms and seems to be in the clear so I’m happy. Ryan
 
Bill13 said:
Don't know WTH was up about disinfectants but the UV light inside the body is real. Will it work? Let's hope so.

https://apnews.com/b44f4531071e6204023f7b8e16f59d4b
A very short video
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Well this is ultra creepy a la 1984. Disappointed but not surprised. Google, YouTube, Twitter and Facebook have strong political views that shape their policies. YouTube has also said they will ban any videos that disagree with the WHO guidelines. I know they are not the government so they have the right to do so.
It still creeps me out, and their policies will be a valuable tool in the upcoming presidential race, similar to what the IRS accomplished recently with Lois Lerner. Suppress the views of those you disagree with, but don't worry, it's for the greater good. Right;). IRS Apologizes For Aggressive Scrutiny Of Conservative Groups
 
Bill13 said:
Well this is ultra creepy a la 1984. Disappointed but not surprised. Google, YouTube, Twitter and Facebook have strong political views that shape their policies. YouTube has also said they will ban any videos that disagree with the WHO guidelines. I know they are not the government so they have the right to do so.
It still creeps me out, and their policies will be a valuable tool in the upcoming presidential race, similar to what the IRS accomplished recently with Lois Lerner. Suppress the views of those you disagree with, but don't worry, it's for the greater good. Right;). IRS Apologizes For Aggressive Scrutiny Of Conservative Groups
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That's interesting. From here:

"Speaking on CNN’s Reliable Sources, Wojcicki said that the Google-owned video streaming platform would be “removing information that is problematic”.

She told host Brian Stelter that this would include “anything that is medically unsubstantiated”.

“So people saying ‘take vitamin C; take turmeric, we’ll cure you’, those are the examples of things that would be a violation of our policy,” she said.

“Anything that would go against World Health Organisation recommendations would be a violation of our policy.”

Not sure exactly what I think about all this. The first amendment is important, but we've been seeing more and more the dangers posed by the easy spread of disinformation on these platforms. I'm generally in favor of banning content that can be proven false and misleading. It's just too dangerous.

Disinformation seems especially important to combat during a pandemic. On the other hand, the WHO guidelines haven't been completely stellar so far, so using them as a benchmark is arguable. Not sure where the video you linked fits on the scale from

Wear face masks -------------------------------------------------------> Inject yourself with disinfectant
 
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sudsy9977 said:
I’m not nearly as smart as you guys but r we saying I SHOULDN’T inject Lysol into my veins? All joking aside,the problem is the news actually has to tell people to not do that. I would have let it slide and let natural selection take its place. People r so dumb.
I don’t know much about this virus but my grandmother is in a nursing home in NJ and tested positive. She didn’t really have any symptoms and seems to be in the clear so I’m happy. Ryan
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Ryan, I hope she continues to be resistant to the effects. My last remaining great aunt died from the virus last week (she lived in a nursing home in NJ).
 
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Reactions: ian
Don’t think anyone’s arguing it’s illegal. But one could argue that since those sites have become so powerful and universal, it's against the spirit of the first amendment. I’m not arguing that though.
 
M1k3 said:
1st Amendment doesn't apply to private entities platforms, no matter your opinion on it or political leaning.
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Another case of our technology moving rather faster than our social and legal systems. Been happening faster and faster lately (or maybe I'm getting older and slowing down).

From the quantity of nonsensical crap and outright falsehoods, historical revision & etc. I can see on YouTube, it's going to be a tough job for them to winnow out bad medical advice.

I have this fantasy of people being allowed to post anything they want on line- With their full contact information, real name, a current accurate mug shot and physical address automatically attached. Kind of like meatspace.

 
Bert2368 said:
Another case of our technology moving rather faster than our social and legal systems. Been happening faster and faster lately (or maybe I'm getting older and slowing down).

From the quantity of nonsensical crap and outright falsehoods, historical revision & etc. I can see on YouTube, it's going to be a tough job for them to winnow out bad medical advice.

I have this fantasy of people being allowed to post anything they want on line- With their full contact information, real name, a current accurate mug shot and physical address automatically attached. Kind of like meatspace.

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Seriously. Along with a conflict of interest statement, and a link to their tax returns.
 
That's the thing. They aren't in the medical advice field, they aren't there to provide medical advice or a platform for it. They are for entertainment. It's easier to say "if it's not recommended by WHO, remove it. Don't have the man-hours to check to fact check random unknown sites that have been cited".

Check your local and national health departments for medical information, not YouTube.
 
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Not illegal, and they can do what they want, but they should be held to a higher standard. So many people now get their news from Facebook, Google, etc. Like newspapers and TV these platforms can easily manipulate what we see and read just by blocking some.content and promoting other. It would be so easy and effective. They can form public opinion very easily, they already do. Disturbing to say the least and definitely something to think about. WHO and CDC made many mistakes during this pandemic, they are just people, so it is understandable, so some scrutiny doesn't hurt. Won't be possible if any alternative information is not allowed to go through. On the other hand there is already so much crap info there that just finding good info is nearly impossible. We live in a crazy world, that's for sure.
 
M1k3 said:
That's the thing. They aren't in the medical advice field, they aren't there to provide medical advice or a platform for it. They are for entertainment. It's easier to say "if it's not recommended by WHO, remove it. Don't have the man-hours to check to fact check random unknown sites that have been sited".

Check your local and national health departments for medical information, not YouTube.
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If Youtube was just for cat videos, I would agree with that. But it’s so much bigger than that now. It’s even used as a vehicle for disseminating information within the scientific community. E.g. here’s me. So, restricting the content to science endorsed by a particular body isn’t a good general strategy. Again, though, I’m not saying it isn’t warranted in this case, just that one has to think carefully about what lines to draw.
 
ian said:
Yea I basically agree with that. The questions is what’s untrue when recommendations are constantly changing.
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That's the point though. I agree they are not in the business of providing medical advice. They can't and shouldn't make any judgement calls, they are not experts. They don't know what advice is good or bad. Easiest is to just let it be, you are an entertainment platform, be that. Don't start making judgement calls on what is good or bad medical advice. Once you do, then you should be held to a higher standard. Clearly, injecting disinfectant is a stupid and dangerous thing to do, but other stuff, who knows, they definitely don't. We can't even decide the last 100 years if coffee is good or bad, seemingly every week there is a new study with opposite results from the previous. I don't think mega doses of vitamin C do anything except give some people diarrhea, but I don't know that for a fact and so doesn't YouTube staff.
 
M1k3 said:
But then if they go the hands off route, they'll get sued like crazy from all sides....
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For what? They don't post anything, they are a platform. They already don't allow content that is illegal. They can very easily defend lawsuites of giving bad medical advice and they have an army of lawyers to do it.
 
Something to watch over the weekend, a new Michael Moore Movie:
It has the usual MM scare tactics, but it's still informative, or it was for me.

I have not watched the whole movie yet (almost there) but I can tell you when I ask Tesla how their cars are powered invariable they say electricity or batteries. So copying one of my heroes, Thomas Sowell, you can't just stop there. You need to ask but then what, multiple times. When they answer Dominion Energy (for our area) I'll tell them almost 60% of DE power comes from fossil fuels, and since we have a coal fired plant nearby, our area is mostly coal. Maybe it's still a net positive, but that car pollutes too and if you are using ethanol or coal it is worse than a gas car.
 
Barmoley said:
For what? They don't post anything, they are a platform. They already don't allow content that is illegal. They can very easily defend lawsuites of giving bad medical advice and they have an army of lawyers to do it.
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They are an American company so.... pretty much for anything.

Algorithms and lackeys are cheaper than lawyers...
 
Bill13 said:
I have not watched the whole movie yet (almost there) but I can tell you when I ask Tesla how their cars are powered invariable they say electricity or batteries. So copying one of my heroes, Thomas Sowell, you can't just stop there. You need to ask but then what, multiple times. When they answer Dominion Energy (for our area) I'll tell them almost 60% of DE power comes from fossil fuels, and since we have a coal fired plant nearby, our area is mostly coal. Maybe it's still a net positive, but that car pollutes too and if you are using ethanol or coal it is worse than a gas car.
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Yeah, the electrical car people are funny in how blind they can be. Some have solar to help provide power for their chargers, but that just means their power for inside the home is all coming from the electric company.
 
Bill13 said:
Something to watch over the weekend, a new Michael Moore Movie:
It has the usual MM scare tactics, but it's still informative, or it was for me.

I have not watched the whole movie yet (almost there) but I can tell you when I ask Tesla how their cars are powered invariable they say electricity or batteries. So copying one of my heroes, Thomas Sowell, you can't just stop there. You need to ask but then what, multiple times. When they answer Dominion Energy (for our area) I'll tell them almost 60% of DE power comes from fossil fuels, and since we have a coal fired plant nearby, our area is mostly coal. Maybe it's still a net positive, but that car pollutes too and if you are using ethanol or coal it is worse than a gas car.
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True.

WildBoar said:
Yeah, the electrical car people are funny in how blind they can be. Some have solar to help provide power for their chargers, but that just means their power for inside the home is all coming from the electric company.
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The thing is, all this shouldn’t be interpreted as an argument against electric cars, but an argument for making the power grid cleaner. We need to start promoting the use of electric cars now, because it’ll take some time for people to become accustomed to them as the new normal, and we need to encourage enough demand that they become cheap enough for the majority of people to buy. The power grid is going to go green eventually, and if we wait till that happens to start promoting electric cars, we’ll have wasted time.

Even if someone’s electric car pollutes just as much as a gas powered car due to a coal powered grid, they’re still encouraging a movement toward green power by buying it.
 
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