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I feel like everyone who actually works on anything SWE at scale understands that the main reason Twitter hasn't completely fallen over is because the former engineering team built one of the most resilient on-prems in the history of the world. Lots of stuff on it has been breaking btw. Now they have just decided to not ship new stuff.

The man has driven off most of his advertisers and won't pay his rent. Not the negative case most people make it out to be. Yeah you right, it's worse if you actually know what's going on.

As far as reddit metrics go, I assume theyre bad because every interview gets more unhinged.
You're totally right it has not fallen over because of the great eng work before. The reality is that they have in some sense of the word, automated their jobs away. And yes, things are breaking, but not enough to make a serious business impact. He's basically running the private equity playbook of just squeezing out as much profit as possible until the company is dry.
It's really not worse if you know what's going on. I'm sure working there is terrible, but very few people can look at the finances now that it's private, but the well-connected executives are probably the most likely to learn that info. They're copying his playbook for a reason, and it's not because it's a financial disaster.
The reality with Reddit is the company is kind of screwed either way. Meta and Alphabet just destroy every other company in terms of ads performance. The bad relationship with advertisers for Twitter is not recent, they've been struggling pretty much forever.
 
Anyway what is not even a little bit up for debate is that we sit here now with a very popular resource of knowledge about kitchen knives being at a very great risk of being lost so that another site can have a chance to become an ad infested ******** just like instagram or twitter. Whether that's necessary or not is a different matter.

Anyone want to engage with why this site won't see very many of them? What we might do to be more inviting?
 
My basis is not what the CEO says. My basis is based on what insiders have said. Both in what people have said in public channels, as well as talking to personal contacts Yes, he is an ass and immature, but he's become the world's richest man for a reason. No, he is not an engineering genius and yes, he has no clue what he is talking about. Not being a good person and not being full of it has never stopped people from becoming rich.
 
Anyway what is not even a little bit up for debate is that we sit here now with a very popular resource of knowledge about kitchen knives being at a very great risk of being lost so that another site can have a chance to become an ad infested ******** just like instagram or twitter. Whether that's necessary or not is a different matter.

Anyone want to engage with why this site won't see very many of them? What we might do to be more inviting?
I think the reddit format is just easier to digest for most folks. They can just scroll, see a simple title and a picture, and click and interact. Also while searching isn't the best on Reddit it's better here. I remember being extremely overwhelmed coming here by the number of threads, the huge amount of pages of knowledge, etc. However I've come to really enjoy that now.

I honestly just think it's come down to people not frequenting specific forums as much these days, they just want an aggregate. I think we are reasonably kind and welcoming to newer members and try and educate as best as we can, but we can always be nicer.
 
ok youre almost there please just connect the dots

he is the richest man in the world despite all of the behavior you are suggesting,

while many far more talented people such as highly published physics professors, some of the most talented musicians on the planet, your typical C compiler wizard, etc. never break a single million

and him being terrible as a CEO doesnt negatively impact his net worth

now just get to the people copying him, including, especially including, the Reddit CEO are also bad at their jobs.
I'm aware of all of this.
It's not really important though. His job isn't to research physics or perform music, it's to maximize shareholder value at the expense of all else. When ethics goes against your responsibilities, poor ethics is a credential not a downside. The Reddit CEO is not trying to be charitable to the mods, just enrich himself and the other shareholders. By definition, he is "good" at being CEO, despite being a terrible person (again, these are not really opposites).

Similarly, many geniuses in other fields are terrible people as well. Many had crazy beliefs in other fields. Didn't matter though.
 
I think the reddit format is just easier to digest for most folks. They can just scroll, see a simple title and a picture, and click and interact. Also while searching isn't the best on Reddit it's better here. I remember being extremely overwhelmed coming here by the number of threads, the huge amount of pages of knowledge, etc. However I've come to really enjoy that now.

I honestly just think it's come down to people not frequenting specific forums as much these days, they just want an aggregate. I think we are reasonably kind and welcoming to newer members and try and educate as best as we can, but we can always be nicer.
The "Show your newest knife buy" and "Knife findings" are some of the best threads, but most newcomers may not explore them, especially since a 1000 page thread is daunting.
 
I'm aware of all of this.
It's not really important though. His job isn't to research physics or perform music, it's to maximize shareholder value at the expense of all else. When ethics goes against your responsibilities, poor ethics is a credential not a downside. The Reddit CEO is not trying to be charitable to the mods, just enrich himself and the other shareholders. By definition, he is "good" at being CEO, despite being a terrible person (again, these are not really opposites).

Similarly, many geniuses in other fields are terrible people as well. Many had crazy beliefs in other fields. Didn't matter though.

Do you think showing potential investors you dont have the power you thought you had is a good way to maximize shareholder value? Reddit is trying to IPO, it's not even clear they will get there. The guy he's copying lost 20B of value, a literally incomprehensible amount.

Many of the big subreddits have effectively turned into parodies of themselves and the users are going along with it because they are more aligned with their community representatives, the mods, than the ownership. Without the people, there is no reddit. It might get back to some degree of normalcy or it might not. Users have sunk big valuable sites before.

Do not forget, as well, that reddit's demographic is largely unsympathetic to all this IPO plight anyway. It is certainly not the case that the moderators are standing inbetween people desperate to look at ads and reddit corporate. The moderators largely come from communities. Several large subreddits have even had power struggles over it.

(not trying to be mean here btw, genuine ?) I wonder if perhaps like reddit's CEO you view Reddit itself as being the thing that's valuable, rather than the conversations being shared amongst users? He is seriously putting the valuable thing he has stewardship over at risk. Reddit is not a small operation either, and it was doing fine.
 
Do you think showing potential investors you dont have the power you thought you had is a good way to maximize shareholder value? Reddit is trying to IPO, it's not even clear they will get there. The guy he's copying lost 20B of value, a literally incomprehensible amount.

Many of the big subreddits have effectively turned into parodies of themselves and the users are going along with it because they are more aligned with their community representatives, the mods, than the ownership. Without the people, there is no reddit. It might get back to some degree of normalcy or it might not. Users have sunk big valuable sites before.

Do not forget, as well, that reddit's demographic is largely unsympathetic to all this IPO plight anyway. It is certainly not the case that the moderators are standing inbetween people desperate to look at ads and reddit corporate. The moderators largely come from communities. Several large subreddits have even had power struggles over it.

(not trying to be mean here btw, genuine ?) I wonder if perhaps like reddit's CEO you view Reddit itself as being the thing that's valuable, rather than the conversations being shared amongst users? He is seriously putting the valuable thing he has stewardship over at risk. Reddit is not a small operation either, and it was doing fine.
The reason those Twitter articles are worthless is they are a point in time snapshot, and literally no public info has been released to the press since. A large amount of that decline just reflected the general decline in tech. Most newer companies have lost far more than 50% since their peak.

I agree big subreddits are garbage but garbage can make money. (look at Facebook for example. Quora is complete trash compared to its early days, but it's actually doing better than you’d expect based on the press and the content)

I think you are putting words in my mouth. The conservations are what valuable to me. But to the CEO, Reddit is the valuable thing. That's pretty natural. He has a large financial incentive to sell Reddit (and it's not a nonprofit); I do not. This is just the reality. I'm not gonna pretend the CEO has any reason to run Reddit like a nonprofit.
I think the reality (perhaps unfortunate) is this too will pass. The Ellen Pao meltdown happened and now it's pretty much forgotten.
Reddit may have been "doing fine" but it was running on VC money that no longer exists and now it needs to make money.
 
Eventually, I think Reddit will just replace the mods for these subreddits if they don't reopen. AFAIK, the way mods are selected is usually just from who "claimed" the subreddit first, and then handed down from then on. The current mods don't have a divine right to the subreddit.
I agree that Reddit will just replace non-complaint mods. I disagree about the lineage of mods though. The mods actually have much more claim to specific sub reddits than even reddit does in my opinion. Reddit created essentially a framework, but for many of those subs the OG mods are the ones that created them. They then selected who to pass the modship onto and so it continued. In essence, it’s semi hereditary. I mention this, because I was on a gaming forum where people were REEing about how their game subreddit was taken down and limiting information access, claiming the majority did not want the shutdown. They didn’t seem to get that it isn’t a democracy; and it really isn’t reddits place to go about choosing leadership on what is essentially a volunteer created, built and moderated forum when reddit really just operates as the hosting service. Reddit communities weren’t communities in the traditional sense of it when it comes to online areas. They were essentially electronic fiefdoms in miniature, with the users benefitting from the power of the populous for more content or ideas, and it all ultimately belonging to the mods who were not elected and had the ultimate executive power to exclude members, control the content that was allowed and enact rules as they saw fit. Unlike mods for many other forums or social networks, they largely weren’t elected by the community and weren’t installed by the corporate overlords. If it’s up to the mods to ensure things like illegal activity are kept off the subs, and to decide what type of content is acceptable on a given sub it stands to reason its within their rights to delete the sub or change how it operates.

I say this as someone who utterly despised Reddit mods, because I’ve been banned from more subs then I can remember. They tend to be thin skinned, they refuse to allow anyone to dispute their decisions, and are often very far into whatever echo chamber their particular sub belongs to so if your ideologies don’t align perfectly with the sub you’ll essentially inevitably be banned.

So I despise them. But I still support them, because like it or not the mods were the spiritual core of a sub. They embodied whatever OG creators valued because they were in part selected for that. They kept the subs free of bots, scams and illegal content which largely kept them alive, all for bloody free. So them having their little power trips was a price I was willing to pay.

Regardless, if Reddit goes through with removing mods that don’t comply they will completely rewrite how Reddit operates, and I can see it backfiring by both losing the individuality of the subreddits and also disheartening current and future mods by showing them that not only are they not paid, but they are expendable and replaceable at the drop of a pin, all in return for a bit of negligible online importance. Takes a special kind of masochist to look at that deal and go “yup that’s worth it”
 
I agree that Reddit will just replace non-complaint mods. I disagree about the lineage of mods though. The mods actually have much more claim to specific sub reddits than even reddit does in my opinion. Reddit created essentially a framework, but for many of those subs the OG mods are the ones that created them. They then selected who to pass the modship onto and so it continued. In essence, it’s semi hereditary. I mention this, because I was on a gaming forum where people were REEing about how their game subreddit was taken down and limiting information access, claiming the majority did not want the shutdown. They didn’t seem to get that it isn’t a democracy; and it really isn’t reddits place to go about choosing leadership on what is essentially a volunteer created, built and moderated forum when reddit really just operates as the hosting service. Reddit communities weren’t communities in the traditional sense of it when it comes to online areas. They were essentially electronic fiefdoms in miniature, with the users benefitting from the power of the populous for more content or ideas, and it all ultimately belonging to the mods who were not elected and had the ultimate executive power to exclude members, control the content that was allowed and enact rules as they saw fit. Unlike mods for many other forums or social networks, they largely weren’t elected by the community and weren’t installed by the corporate overlords. If it’s up to the mods to ensure things like illegal activity are kept off the subs, and to decide what type of content is acceptable on a given sub it stands to reason its within their rights to delete the sub or change how it operates.

I say this as someone who utterly despised Reddit mods, because I’ve been banned from more subs then I can remember. They tend to be thin skinned, they refuse to allow anyone to dispute their decisions, and are often very far into whatever echo chamber their particular sub belongs to so if your ideologies don’t align perfectly with the sub you’ll essentially inevitably be banned.

So I despise them. But I still support them, because like it or not the mods were the spiritual core of a sub. They embodied whatever OG creators valued because they were in part selected for that. They kept the subs free of bots, scams and illegal content which largely kept them alive, all for bloody free. So them having their little power trips was a price I was willing to pay.

Regardless, if Reddit goes through with removing mods that don’t comply they will completely rewrite how Reddit operates, and I can see it backfiring by both losing the individuality of the subreddits and also disheartening current and future mods by showing them that not only are they not paid, but they are expendable and replaceable at the drop of a pin, all in return for a bit of negligible online importance. Takes a special kind of masochist to look at that deal and go “yup that’s worth it”
I agree they have more claim but the way "ownership" of subreddits work is just like websites. The first person to take the name got it. If you want to challenge r/gaming and r/games, it's a lot hard to do it if your name is r/games2, because a better name lends more legitimacy. This is part of why I'm optimistic about Discord - it's much more like old school forums like this, where you have smaller communities rather than the more winner-take-all model of Reddit, which leads to big communities that are harder to police, and have less personality, vs having a choice between many smaller communities, each with their own quirks. The one problem with Discord is it's harder to discover and the chatroom style thing is not really easy to navigate.
 
Yeah I love discord as a Skype/hangouts replacement with friends. But even with time on the app, the layout of invididual discords is honestly a bit of a chaotic mess that I don’t think lends itself to either growth or attracting new people, and that’s not even including the issues with requiring a code to join new discord channels.
 
there's a lot to unpack here, but i think lack of independent ownership is a big problem.

imo, a discussion community should not be a business. it should operate as a nonprofit (though not necessarily be registered as one if that is too onerous) that serves the interests of its users above all else. reddit is not that. KKF might be that, but without transparency or explicit mission statement, i'm not really sure.

that's one of my biggest problems with reddit et al., and i think the kernel of the problems happening there today simply stem from that.
 
I got a homebutcher mystery box. Showed it off, everyone shi**ed on, made me feel bad about it, then listed it for the same day on chefknifeswap, and then got banned for "flipping"...like what? And they wouldn't unban me unless I wrote an apology letter. I didn't wanna say it but the place is cancer.
I asked about mystery boxes there & here. Responses were night and day. Everyone here answered the question if “what did you get & how did you feel about the value” over there everyone just ripped it apart and called me an idiot for considering it - which btw, I’m happy with 1 of the 2 boxes.

I left the sub after seeing the same “read the wiki” and “answer the questionnaire” and “Takamura or Yoshikane >>>> anything” threads. There was no love for anything outside the same 3-4 suggestions.
 
You were banned for refusing to back down when a moderator explained that selling a knife for more than the original cost was considered flipping.

Happy to share the other side of that conversation, though as you wrote on KKF before, you were not proud of the person you were back then.
Wrote out a long reply to this before reading the thread, but this is nonsense and you can’t justify it without sounding absurd.
 
i wouldn't be completely surprised if, after reading the entire conversation, i would support banning jedy. sorry, jedy <3

separate from that is the question of if that was flipping or not and why a mod would be so insistent that it is.

i also don't really care though. it's in the past and has nothing to do with me.
 
Wrote out a long reply to this before reading the thread, but this is nonsense and you can’t justify it without sounding absurd.
Yeah I mean I even felt stupid typing it out, but I'm not gonna stay silent. Set a price we like or you're a flipper? Nah man. Really it was quite simple. People lowball like crazy. Especially on Reddit. I set a price a little under the MSRP and was gonna take much less for it in DMS when people eventually sent me offers. I ended up just giving the knife away regardless.

Also it was like a $400 matia borani chef knife or something, not really a "flippable" knife, although I have sold some FMs for below and near msrp soo....
 
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Yeah I mean I even felt stupid typing it out, but I'm not gonna stay silent. Set a price we like or your a flipper? Nah man. Really it was quite simple. People lowball like crazy. Especially on Reddit. I set a price a little under the MSRP and was gonna take much less for it in DMS when people eventually sent me offers. I ended up just giving the knife away regardless.

Also it was like a $400 matia borani chef knife or something, not really a "flippable" knife, although I have sold some FMs for below and near msrp soo....
Basically was going to type that if you buy something on sale and decide you don’t like it, you don’t have to sell it for the same price.
Someone else can wait until the next sale, or negotiate, or just not buy from you.
And like you said, to flip a knife it had to be a knife people WANT.

100% the buyer’s prerogative.
 
why a mod would be so insistent

To me, the biggest factor is probably the age thing – if the average redditor and the average moderator are ½, ⅓, even ¼ the age of some of the folks on KKF, then it makes sense that sometimes mods get irrationally attached to their positions, because that’s what people do, especially young people.

But even if we factored out issues of age and maturity, I think we would still be left with the really old problems of politics, government, and the tripartite separation of powers. Any community of online strangers that grants executive power to some members and not others, in the absence of due process and judicial review, is going to run tropes from Zimbardo’s Stanford prison experiment and Lord of the Flies. And eventually Albert O. Hirschman.

Thematically, the unilateral decision to kill Apollo is emblematic of that hamartia. It recurses beautifully.
 
To me, the biggest factor is probably the age thing – if the average redditor and the average moderator are ½, ⅓, even ¼ the age of some of the folks on KKF, then it makes sense that sometimes mods get irrationally attached to their positions, because that’s what people do, especially young people.

But even if we factored out issues of age and maturity, I think we would still be left with the really old problems of politics, government, and the tripartite separation of powers. Any community of online strangers that grants executive power to some members and not others, in the absence of due process and judicial review, is going to run tropes from Zimbardo’s Stanford prison experiment and Lord of the Flies. And eventually Albert O. Hirschman.

Thematically, the unilateral decision to kill Apollo is emblematic of that hamartia. It recurses beautifully.
Also people just tend to act more aggressive online, myself is kind of fault in that
 
Reddit had some really great guides and directories for the questions that get asked over and over again. It would be a shame to lose those.
Yeah, just a shame no one ever seemed to read them before posting 😅
 
OP, you know what, you're right, reddit clearly does need to return. I don't agree on the reason but this thread has convinced me on the premise.

:rolleyes:

Welcome former Redditeers. Here you'll find some of the nicest, most supportive, and genuinely knowledgeable folks around, let alone in the cutlery community. We hope you'll get to know the place, stick around, and get involved.
 
To me, the biggest factor is probably the age thing – if the average redditor and the average moderator are ½, ⅓, even ¼ the age of some of the folks on KKF, then it makes sense that sometimes mods get irrationally attached to their positions, because that’s what people do, especially young people.

But even if we factored out issues of age and maturity, I think we would still be left with the really old problems of politics, government, and the tripartite separation of powers. Any community of online strangers that grants executive power to some members and not others, in the absence of due process and judicial review, is going to run tropes from Zimbardo’s Stanford prison experiment and Lord of the Flies. And eventually Albert O. Hirschman.

Thematically, the unilateral decision to kill Apollo is emblematic of that hamartia. It recurses beautifully.
What did I just read?
 
I thought it was the best sub on reddit! There were some real gems posted now and then and the recommendation threads were always fun.

Some things did aggravate me though. The main thing being a reddit issue where the really good posts would get buried pretty rapidly and then archived giving every post a transient feel. There were a few categories of posts which could have used consolidation such as NKDs for example which KKF does better.

The knife id threads could have used consolidating too as most of them were just wanna-be-flippers trying to snipe a unicorn on some used goods site and were such low effort posts which mostly went unanswered or had 1-2 responses. On KKF they get filtered to the knife knowledge subforum so I don't have to see them. :p

Instead we had an attempt to consolidate recommendation threads which lasted way too long before reverting. Kind of dumb imo. (I hope some reddit mods are taking notes.)
 

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