Recommend me

[Sas]

LOCATION
Netherlands
KNIFE TYPE
chef’s knife (right handed)
HANDLE
No strong preference
(wa if I had to choose)
LENGTH
210mm (220 would be ideal I think, from heel to tip)
STAINLESS
least stainless cladding,
MAX BUDGET
€200,-
KNIFE USE
at home
MAIN TASKS
all rounder, veg (also carrot), meat etc, fine to pick up a beater to break down pumpkin, chicken and debone and trim goat shoulder etc

What knife, if any, are you replacing?
Basic German style stainless workhorse
PINCH grip
CUTTINGMOTIONS
Can’t open the link but I guess -thrust (so like a push cut like down and forward simultaneously)
-rock (rolling from tip to heel)
Imagine when quartering a carrot length-wise I do this.

Open to adjust technique

What improvements do you want from your current knife? If you are not replacing a knife, please identify as many characteristics identified below in parentheses that you would like this knife to have.)

I just want it to cut very well
No wedging in carrots, gliding through onions, falling through meats hehe

The rest (aesthetics, edge retention etc is extra)

KNIFE MAINTENANCE
synthetic board, classic HACCP restaurant plastic

Do you sharpen your own knives?
I will, but 0 experience yet

Are you interested in purchasing sharpening products for your knives?
Yes, I would like to maybe get a shapton pro 1K
And considering a Norton crystolon or India for thinning my stainless German knives


SPECIAL COMMENTS

So I’m looking for my first japanese chef knife. I bought the tsunehisa/ikazuchi/tose icha/akifusa OEM AS Migaki recently but I don’t think it cuts that well, surprisingly, as many people recommended it. It has significant wedging in even thin carrots, and where with a German knife I comfortably force the knife through, with the thin gyuto I am not. I am considering to buy another knife and return this one, with the takamura being an option. I fear that something that lasery might give me the same discomfort in case it wedges though, but if it doesn’t wedge that would be perfect. Otherwise what kind of knife should I get? Is there a thing like a midgrjnd/workhorse that’s still as thin behind the edge that it cuts like butter and doesn’t wedge? Help!

 

[Heckel7302]

Not sure where in NL you are, but if you can get yourself to Amsterdam, you should go to Meesterslijpers. The best way to pick a knife that is right for you is to hold them.

https://www.meesterslijpers.nl

 

[Jovidah]

I don't think anyone ever had a Takamura that would wedge in carrots... but it is a bit of a delicate flimsy feeling knife, so it's not everyone's cup of tea. The problem is that under 200 bucks it's largely 'pick your concession' these days. If you could spend a bit more I'd lean to just going with an Ashi Ginga since those always cut well out of the bucks.

If you live close enough to a store to be able to hold stuff in person that wouldn't be a bad idea. A lot of this is about finding a knife that fits your preferences.

Within budget K-Sabatier 200 series could also be an option, but the problem is that you're also playing a bit of Russian roulette there. You could also go with one of the classical Japanese production knives but at that price point I think most will also require thinning behind the edge before they'll really perform.

 

[jacobwilder5]

+1 on ashi ginga if you can push budget a few dollars. Blueway has a yo gyuto in stock. The stainless is a pleasant steel to sharpen as well.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/3854278129...V852HA&hash=item59bd49b272:g:NT0AAOSweE9j8fLT

 

[False_Cast]

I agree with @jacobwilder5

Keep an eye out for a restock of the wa 240 (which will be in the 230mm heel to tip range if I understand how wa Ashi’s measure). Their Swedish stainless (AEBL) is nice. I have a white 2 yo 240 and it’s great.

 

[jaydee]

Rangelrooij in the Hague is another shop in NL.
Tetogi have a Ashi in 210mm with wa handle but they are very narrow at 42mm.

 

[Benuser]

If you live close enough to a store to be able to hold stuff in person that wouldn't be a bad idea. A lot of this is about finding a knife that fits your preferences.

I'd tend to respectfully disagree. A first impression says more about what you're used to than about what you're actually handling. For example, the slightest difference in balance may already deter. I only get to know a knife, as a humble home cook, after a few weeks, and trying to use it for almost everything, searching for its limits. I you see someone peeling an orange with a honesuki: it's me with a new knife.
Often it will require a few sharpenings, fine tuning the geometry to get into the margins I can easily handle. Perhaps changing my grip a bit and fine tuning some technique.
Cutting two carrots and a tomato doesn't say anything.
I should add that factory edges are often far from optimal.
1. There has to be an edge-case. The indifferent, unpredictable one. Three strokes and a bit of buffing to remove the burr.
2. The fear of returns. After all, this refined instrument got sent to barbarians. An extremely conservative edge, with microbevels on both sides. Symmetrically, so you can sell it as ambidextrous. Good luck with that one.
3. The edge meant as a service to the end-user. All he has to do, is adapt it with a few strokes to what he is used to. The factory edge isn't meant to be used as such. If you still do, expect chipping with the first board contact. But indeed, it's very sharp. A 240 gyuto, 240g, 10° on the left side, 6 on the right one. It will feel spectacular, but not for long.

 

[Sas]

I'd tend to respectfully disagree. A first impression says more about what you're used to than about what you're actually handling. For example, the slightest difference in balance may already deter. I only get to know a knife, as a humble home cook, after a few weeks, and trying to use it for almost everything, searching for its limits. I you see someone peeling an orange with a honesuki: it's me with a new knife.
Often it will require a few sharpenings, fine tuning the geometry to get into the margins I can easily handle. Perhaps changing my grip a bit and fine tuning some technique.
Cutting two carrots and a tomato doesn't say anything.
I should add that factory edges are often far from optimal.
1. There has to be an edge-case. The indifferent, unpredictable one. Three strokes and a bit of buffing to remove the burr.
2. The fear of returns. After all, this refined instrument got sent to barbarians. An extremely conservative edge, with microbevels on both sides. Symmetrically, so you can sell it as ambidextrous. Good luck with that one.
3. The edge meant as a service to the end-user. All he has to do, is adapt it with a few strokes to what he is used to. The factory edge isn't meant to be used as such. If you still do, expect chipping with the first board contact. But indeed, it's very sharp. A 240 gyuto, 240g, 10° on the left side, 6 on the right one. It will feel spectacular, but not for long.

I went to meesterslijpers but holding a knife doesn’t tell me much, it’s cutting that is relevant and I don’t think they let you bring an onion or carrot to try out hahah. Holding tells me maybe if I like the size but even that without my board and a vegetable for reference is not so telling.
I also considered a hardent, but was discouraged from buying from a small maker as a first knife. Also a knot looks cool. Any thoughts on that? Are u selling any knives @Benuser?

 

[JayS20]

I'd tend to respectfully disagree.

That was a whole lot of nothing imo.
Of course it won't tell you much but it will tell you more than never handling it and buying it blind. Maybe balance and weight distribution is off. The profile isn't to your liking. Spine isn't comfortable... Yes you can fix, alter some of the issues but not everyone wants to.

Ashi via blueway you have to add taxes and custom duties in Europe, would be nice if Americans could remember that and factor into recommendations. The Ashi would come up to around 290€.
Kaeru might be an option though a bit thicker than I would like
Makoto Kurosaki, only VG10 variant available right now
While not Wa handle Mac Pro is quite a nice knife imo. Sits between German and Japanese knives, pretty perfect transition.

 

[Benuser]

I went to meesterslijpers but holding a knife doesn’t tell me much, it’s cutting that is relevant and I don’t think they let you bring an onion or carrot to try out hahah. Holding tells me maybe if I like the size but even that without my board and a vegetable for reference is not so telling.
I also considered a hardent, but was discouraged from buying from a small maker as a first knife. Also a knot looks cool. Any thoughts on that? Are u selling any knives @Benuser?

As a first knife, I would look for a middle-of-the-road one, as your preferences are going to develop. I think about profile, geometry, weight, length, balance, width, steel type. Poor thing, most yo ones I would have suggested come today far too fat behind the edge. Maksim from https://www.japanesenaturalstones.com/special/ has quite often Old Stock, ground much thinner than modern ones, and he gives them a good stone sharpening. The prices are generally very reasonable. Be there in time. Make sure to follow his newsletter.

 

[SwampDonkey]

The Makoto Ryusei is a great option. I've had the 240 and 210 gyuto, and even bought my mom the santoku. The 210 is a true 210 mm, but the forward sweep of the heel/choil puts the entire blade length in front of your pinch grip so it feels a little longer than it is, as opposed to some knives with finger notches that effectively shorten the usable length since some heel is behind your pinch.

The VG7 steel is fully stainless and is tougher than ginsan, though it sharpens similarly easily and has good edge retention. Somewhat curvy profile that is comfortable for pushcuts and rock chopping. I'm mostly a push cutter and it had a big sweet spot for that/never felt too curvy. Makoto is a professional sharpener so his grinds are on point. The Ryusei line is a bit more robust/less lasery than some of his other work but still cuts well.

https://www.meesterslijpers.nl/makoto-kurosaki-ryusei-gyuto?search=Makoto

 

[Jovidah]

Ashi via blueway you have to add taxes and custom duties in Europe, would be nice if Americans could remember that and factor into recommendations. The Ashi would come up to around 290€.
Kaeru might be an option though a bit thicker than I would like
Makoto Kurosaki, only VG10 variant available right now
While not Wa handle Mac Pro is quite a nice knife imo. Sits between German and Japanese knives, pretty perfect transition.

Actually I'm not American... but it's one of the more affordable knives I'd dare to recommend (that I've actually used) where you're almost guaranteed to get an actual good performer out of the box that's universal enough that an Ashi 240 will work well for almost anyone as a first knife.
By comparison Takamura feels a lot more flimsy to the point that it will turn off a lot of people.
Similarly, a lot of the other stuff that's cheap will have a compromise at least somewhere (for example lack of taper or thick behind the edge).

Similarly the Kaeru (which isn't all that cheap anymore) has gotten taller with the recent batches... at 50mm for a 210 and 55mm for a 240 I'd consider that a bit of an acquired taste at this point.

No clue about the Makoto Kurosaki stuff... they might be good value.

The hardest part here is that preferences of the OP are opaque at best, and 200 euros is a very limiting budget these days (if you go up to 300 there's a lot more choices). Below 200 you can find a lot of 'diamonds in the rough' where you'll have an awesome knife after some thinning.

 

[JayS20]

Know you aren't American, just read Ashi below and forgot you mentioned it first.
Yeah Ashis are good but I have already heard, seen some newer ones which were a bit too thick behind the edge. Still would recommend an Ashi but it will be close to 300€ and might not be as thin as they used to be.
Agree on the Takamura being kinda flimsy, one of the reasons I sold my Hana.
Kaeru has gotten taller might be an upgrade for a lot of people. I know you prefer lower ones.
I have one of the 240mm stainless clad Kaerus with about 48-49mm height. It's one of the few knives which work with that height for me. Height depends for me on profile, your height and counter height. In general I'm at 54-57 with 240mm gyutos

 

[daddy yo yo]

I can highly recommend a Shiro Kamo wa-gyuto with Aogami Super in stainless clad. Great knife for its price!

 

[mengwong]

Below 200 you can find a lot of 'diamonds in the rough' where you'll have an awesome knife after some thinning.

I would agree with this strategy – spend (more than) half the budget on stones, and the rest on a cheap basic knife that meets your requirements, and then improve the heck out of it without worry.

This would be a good starting set

120€ for 3 good stones. The price includes shipping to EU.

1. Shapton Pro 220: Only used a couple of times. 19mm left.
2. Shapton Glass 500: BNIB
3. Bester 6k: Great for Kasumi polishing, mirror core. 13mm left

Alternatively

JKI Vitrified Diamond #800 - (£175)

Byxco Manticore 60 Grit SiC stone - £20

 

[Jovidah]

I would agree with this strategy – spend (more than) half the budget on stones, and the rest on a cheap basic knife that meets your requirements, and then improve the heck out of it without worry.

This would be a good starting set


Alternatively

Honestly... how you split up something like a 200 euro budget is up for debate. But it reminds me of a classical argument against such hard budgets: if you have 200 euros to spend on a knife, you have 300 euros. If you have 200 euros but not 300 euros, you shouldn't be spending 200 in the first place.

Focusing on stones isn't the worst idea, but I can kinda understand the OP's desire to have something that 'just works' out of the box. Learning how to tune something for better performance is tricky when you don't really have a benchmark to aim for.

 

[Jovidah]

Know you aren't American, just read Ashi below and forgot you mentioned it first.
Yeah Ashis are good but I have already heard, seen some newer ones which were a bit too thick behind the edge. Still would recommend an Ashi but it will be close to 300€ and might not be as thin as they used to be.
Agree on the Takamura being kinda flimsy, one of the reasons I sold my Hana.
Kaeru has gotten taller might be an upgrade for a lot of people. I know you prefer lower ones.
I have one of the 240mm stainless clad Kaerus with about 48-49mm height. It's one of the few knives which work with that height for me. Height depends for me on profile, your height and counter height. In general I'm at 54-57 with 240mm gyutos

Yeah I know some might find taller better. The difficult thing is that OP doesn't really know where he stands in regards to that preference.
The biggest issue is how much the price has gone up. They're no longer at that no-brainer-recommendation price.

 

[Sas]

I would agree with this strategy – spend (more than) half the budget on stones, and the rest on a cheap basic knife that meets your requirements, and then improve the heck out of it without worry.

This would be a good starting set


Alternatively

I also like this idea, I was considering to get a Norton India/crystolon and maybe a Zandstra Voss, but I can’t find the 2 grits on the Zandstra.
But I thought those 2 stones cover a wide range. And the just use those on my German beaters until I’ve saved some money for a nice knife (still would like a hardent since he’s from my hometown hehe)