Recommendations for a "forgiving" gyuto that's easy to maintain

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bookgeek97

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Hey KKF folks, would love your recommendations:

Ultimately I'm hunting for flatter-profiled gyuto I can cook with being less mindful about edge-care or keeping wiping the entire blade of the knife. Thank you!

TLDR
1) 240mm gyuto less than $200 that has a big flat spot (No less than 3 inches); average tip height and ideally a modest amount of belly near the heel to avoid an abrupt stop in the cutting action (mostly push cut).
2) Forgiving enough that I can use this to rapidly rock mince, stab avocado pits
3) Easy care during use (stainless clad carbon is fine, but iron clad carbon is not desirable). Slight preference Western over wa-handle (simply for the stabilized wood).

Full Survey:

LOCATION
'Murica!

KNIFE TYPE
Gyuto

Are you right or left handed?
Right

Are you interested in a Western handle (e.g., classic Wusthof handle) or Japanese handle?
Leaning towards Western but have a couple of wa-handle knives at home. Just nothing where the balance is behind the bolster/choil

What length of knife (blade) are you interested in (in inches or millimeters)?
240

Do you require a stainless knife? (Yes or no)
No. Just no iron-clad

What is your absolute maximum budget for your knife?
$150 is sweet spot. $200 for the right purchase.


KNIFE USE
Home

What are the main tasks you primarily intend to use the knife for (e.g., slicing vegetables, chopping vegetables, mincing vegetables, slicing meats, cutting down poultry, breaking poultry bones, filleting fish, trimming meats, etc.)? (Please identify as many tasks as you would like.)
Veggies (50/50 hard veggies vs soft), boneless meats, mincing herbs, skinning fish

What knife, if any, are you replacing?
None

Do you have a particular grip that you primarily use? (Please click on this LINK for the common types of grips.)
Pinch

What cutting motions do you primarily use? (Please click on this LINK for types of cutting motions and identify the two or three most common cutting motions, in order of most used to least used.)
Push, pull, rocking

What improvements do you want from your current knife? If you are not replacing a knife, please identify as many characteristics identified below in parentheses that you would like this knife to have.)
- Average tip height to sheep's foot
- Contact patch of 3 inches
- Slight curve at heel
- Easy to sharpen & touch up
- Wide bevel would be nice to help when it comes time to thin



Better aesthetics (e.g., a certain type of finish; layered/Damascus or other pattern of steel; different handle color/pattern/shape/wood; better scratch resistance; better stain resistance)?
Nothing mirror or damascus; other than that don't care.

Comfort (e.g., lighter/heavier knife; better handle material; better handle shape; rounded spine/choil of the knife; improved balance)?
Would like the spine to be properly rounded, but at this price range I expect to be pulling out sandpaper anyway

Ease of Use (e.g., ability to use the knife right out of the box; smoother rock chopping, push cutting, or slicing motion; less wedging; better food release; less reactivity with food; easier to sharpen)?
Most important is profile: my kitchen counter is tall for my height, so a knife with too much belly doesn't feel great to use in my situation. I do mostly 70% push/pull cutting anyway.



Edge Retention (i.e., length of time you want the edge to last without sharpening)?
At least 3-4 prep sessions at home before the next touch up.


KNIFE MAINTENANCE
Do you use a bamboo, wood, rubber, or synthetic cutting board?
Hinoki

Do you sharpen your own knives?
Yes


SPECIAL REQUESTS/COMMENTS
 
HRC_64: Mostly I split my time between a Yoshikane SKD 240 and veg. cleaver.
 
HRC_64: Mostly I split my time between a Yoshikane SKD 240 and veg. cleaver.

Actually, the Yoshikane seems like a good fit for most of what you're describing... they're not fragile.
If you want to go more beater, try a Misono dragon.
 
Actually, the Yoshikane seems like a good fit for most of what you're describing... they're not fragile.
If you want to go more beater, try a Misono dragon.

Thanks McMan. I agree the Yoshikane is great except for the profile gets in the way from time to time (First world problems, really). I wish there was a just a bit more belly at the tip, and it's almost too flat: When push cutting, there tends to be quite a bit of drag (given the large contact patch-- about 5 inches) and the downward action is really abrupt.

You know, I had been considering the misono dragon or the carbonext from JCK-- but it's difficult to tell from pictures how flat they are-- but will take another look. Thanks for the rec.
 
The Misono Dragon's have a way of hanging around... Carbonext, not so much.
I picked up a Carbonext a couple years ago, used it once, sold it. I didn't think it was anything special. I didn't have a 240, though. But from JCK's photos there seems to be a decent flat-spot on the 240, which, from what you've said, seems like something you want to avoid.
Gesshin Uraku would be a good one to look into, too. I've never tried one though so can't add my two cents.
 
You already have a great gyuto in yoshikane, but maybe something like this https://www.japaneseknifeimports.co...ecials/products/gesshin-240mm-stainless-gyuto for a beater and seems to have more of a belly, but still pretty flat. Might be too tall at the heel though, given your counter height, I have the same issue. I find that it is height at the heel, or sometimes angle of the handle that makes the difference rather than the profile.
 
Thanks barmoley, mcman. Will take a look at the uraku for sure.

Have you guys tires the masahiro vc? Would be curious how flat and beater that might qualify as.
 
vc and dragon are carbon (mono) steel and need to be wiped
 
I have both the Misono Swedish and the Masahiro VC 240mm. Both have a flat section, not deadly flat though. It's a continuous curve that's almost flat for 2-3". The Misono has a spear point, elegant but fragile in a busy promo kitchen. Balance forward. The Misono steel is softer, Rc 59 or so. Very finely grained. Very easy sharpening.
The Masahiro has a small upswing at the heel. Tip is low, typical of the Japanese gyuto. Balance neutral, at the bolster. Steel is much harder, about 62Rc. More Aogami Super-like: more bite, much better edge retention, lower reactiveness.
Fit & Finish by the Misono are exceptional at this price level. With the Masahiro it's OK.
Both need a good stone sharpening before use.
Both can be used as a beater knife if you put a conservative edge on it. And any damage can be very easily repaired.
 
I have both the Misono Swedish and the Masahiro VC 240mm. Both have a flat section, not deadly flat though. It's a continuous curve that's almost flat for 2-3". The Misono has a spear point, elegant but fragile in a busy promo kitchen. Balance forward. The Misono steel is softer, Rc 59 or so. Very finely grained. Very easy sharpening.
The Masahiro has a small upswing at the heel. Tip is low, typical of the Japanese gyuto. Balance neutral, at the bolster. Steel is much harder, about 62Rc. More Aogami Super-like: more bite, much better edge retention, lower reactiveness.
Fit & Finish by the Misono are exceptional at this price level. With the Masahiro it's OK.
Both need a good stone sharpening before use.
Both can be used as a beater knife if you put a conservative edge on it. And any damage can be very easily repaired.

Thanks Benuser-- the first hand insight is super helpful. Given both have a same-ish flat section-- and I realize this is subjective-- which has seemed most conducive to you for push cutting?
 
vc and dragon are carbon (mono) steel and need to be wiped

Understood-- I think I'm open to monosteels as it seems that the iron cladding in most cases that is more reactive than the core steel itself.
 
Thanks Benuser-- the first hand insight is super helpful. Given both have a same-ish flat section-- and I realize this is subjective-- which has seemed most conducive to you for push cutting?
Not entirely sure what you mean by push cutting, my fault, language problem.
I use "Guillotine & glide" and pulling, never the purely vertical motion you're probably referring to. So I really can't tell, I regret.
 
I should have added that my Misono is an old one, got a lot of use and has lost some width. So I can't compare two new ones.
 
Not entirely sure what you mean by push cutting, my fault, language problem.
I use "Guillotine & glide" and pulling, never the purely vertical motion you're probably referring to. So I really can't tell, I regret.

By push I believe he's referring to same as g and g though technique may not be as nuanced. Chop is usually the English version of vertical cutting motion. I'd link Salty's push/pull/chop vid but I'm mobile.
 
By push I believe he's referring to same as g and g though technique may not be as nuanced. Chop is usually the English version of vertical cutting motion. I'd link Salty's push/pull/chop vid but I'm mobile.

Thanks, Chinacats ! Didn't notice much difference while cutting. Anyway, the VC tip isn't too low, if that may be a concern. Choice has more to do with my mood, the board I have to use, the product. For cleaning the outside of a celeriac I probably take the Misono -- no board contact, for cutting it into slices and dies the VC. Not sure the choice is always that rational, though. Probably not.
In rough conditions I certainly take the VC because of its tip. The Misono Sheffield-like spear point is very elegant, but got too often repaired.
 
Thanks, Chinacats ! Didn't notice much difference while cutting. Anyway, the VC tip isn't too low, if that may be a concern. Choice has more to do with my mood, the board I have to use, the product. For cleaning the outside of a celeriac I probably take the Misono -- no board contact, for cutting it into slices and dies the VC. Not sure the choice is always that rational, though. Probably not.
In rough conditions I certainly take the VC because of its tip. The Misono Sheffield-like spear point is very elegant, but got too often repaired.

Benuser yes, i think in my head push/thrust cut is same its glide and guillotine. Also, I was about to say-- the Misono in the picture definitely looks like it's been through some sharpening. Thanks again for the input.
 
Kaeru! Maybe a little small flat for you, but its damn good value for money!
 
Kaeru! Maybe a little small flat for you, but its damn good value for money!

Thanks Spipet! Curious, how was sharpening the SLD on the Kaeru, and is there any back belly at the heel?

Actually it's the Masahiro VC, after getting its patina and second sharpening!
Here for Misono, the no. 113 is the 240mm. See the different tip.
http://www.misono-hamono.com/SWEDEN/gyutou.html
Nice Benuser! Quick question-- after the patina, how reactive did it remain?
 
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