Shapton pro #5000 for endstone and stripping.

[HappyamateurDK]

Hi all.

I'm looking for a stone to be used as an endstone(before leather) and the occasional quick maintenance stropping.

I have a shapton pro #1000 already that I really enjoy because of it's speed and hardness.

Would the #5000 be a good choice for the needs mentioned above? It will be used on a variety of carbon and stainless knives.

Thanks

 

[azn_knives_4l]

There's actually quite a lot to this question... I think most stones can easily fill this role depending on edge preferences and also whether or not the strop is abrasive. Fwiw, I *rarely* go through a 'progression' on any knife (only when thinning) and just use whatever stone I like for any given knife at reasonable intervals. My Gingas get a 4k+ mixed grit, am currently experimenting for Vics but used to be 2k, and Kiwis/utility/pocket knives on a 400. I use plain strops when I use them but mostly just swipe on cardboard or my pants. All of this is just to ask, why not use the SP 1k if you're not looking for a different edge character?

 

[ile74]

I have Shapton glass #3000 above 1000 and its good for japanese carbon steel double bevel endstone. I have also Shapton #6000 (soft grey stone) and its's good for mirror polishing and white steel single bevel finishing if I need really fine edge for sashimi fish etc. cutting.

 

[Benuser]

IIRC the Shapton Pro 1k has a grit of 700 JIS, the Japanese industrial standard. Fine as a last stone for soft German stainless. Not so much for carbons and a lot of other stainless.
A higher grit with other stainless allows at least a better deburring. As for carbons, they will performance-wise benefit from a higher polish, which also allows touching-up at a high grit.
I like the Naniwa Pro Chosera 3k a lot. Great feedback, smooth, delivering a 4k edge. Another one is the Shapton Glass 4k, ending a tad lower than the Chosera. A hard, very precise stone. Both should deliver an edge with a lot of bite, especially after the jump from a Shapton 1k.
I use a small piece of Belgian Blue for maintenance with carbons and all stainless I have, other than soft Germans.

 

[azn_knives_4l]

IIRC the Shapton Pro 1k has a grit of 700 JIS, the Japanese industrial standard. Fine as a last stone for soft German stainless. Not so much for carbons and a lot of other stainless.
A higher grit with other stainless allows at least a better deburring. As for carbons, they will performance-wise benefit from a higher polish, which also allows touching-up at a high grit.
I like the Naniwa Pro Chosera 3k a lot. Great feedback, smooth, delivering a 4k edge. Another one is the Shapton Glass 4k, ending a tad lower than the Chosera. A hard, very precise stone. Both should deliver an edge with a lot of bite, especially after the jump from a Shapton 1k.
I use a small piece of Belgian Blue for maintenance with carbons and all stainless I have, other than soft Germans.

I legit thought I'd never look into naturals but y'all talk about these Belgian blues like they're magic. That they're still quarried even makes the prices reasonable.

 

[Benuser]

I legit thought I'd never look into naturals but y'all talk about these Belgian blues like they're magic. That they're still quarried even makes the prices reasonable.

Their mining is a by-product of the rare Coticule, and comes in large amounts.

 

[jedy617]

+1 chosera 3k, one of the greats

 

[blokey]

God I hate Shapton pro 5000, feels like glass, edge is muh, no feed back or whatever. 1000 is good tho, personally I use a Kitayama 8K, surprisingly nice food cutting edge with that grit

 

[JPAU]

I legit thought I'd never look into naturals but y'all talk about these Belgian blues like they're magic. That they're still quarried even makes the prices reasonable.

Mine just arrived - cannot wait to try it but everything that I am using at the moment is sharp. Will report back.

 

[azn_knives_4l]

Mine just arrived - cannot wait to try it but everything that I am using at the moment is sharp. Will report back.

Seriously??? Incredible self-control. I can't even wait for the edge on new knives to dull because I want to test the sharpening response so badly, lol.

 

[Yoshi]

Most people give strippers money, but hey if you find one that takes whetstones, I say that's a keeper that you should consider marrying.

 

[blokey]

Most people give strippers money, but hey if you find one that takes whetstones, I say that's a keeper that you should consider marrying.

Yeah but throwing a 5kg Jnat is usually considered attempted murder

 

[azn_knives_4l]

Yeah but throwing a 5kg Jnat is usually considered attempted murder

I've heard of making it hail with quarters but this is on another level.

 

[Yoshi]

Yeah but throwing a 5kg Jnat is usually considered attempted murder

Y'all mfer are so damn rich, I was think about koppa and finger stones only

 

[HappyamateurDK]

IIRC the Shapton Pro 1k has a grit of 700 JIS, the Japanese industrial standard. Fine as a last stone for soft German stainless. Not so much for carbons and a lot of other stainless.
A higher grit with other stainless allows at least a better deburring. As for carbons, they will performance-wise benefit from a higher polish, which also allows touching-up at a high grit.
I like the Naniwa Pro Chosera 3k a lot. Great feedback, smooth, delivering a 4k edge. Another one is the Shapton Glass 4k, ending a tad lower than the Chosera. A hard, very precise stone. Both should deliver an edge with a lot of bite, especially after the jump from a Shapton 1k.
I use a small piece of Belgian Blue for maintenance with carbons and all stainless I have, other than soft Germans.

If the shapton pro's have a lower JIS grit then they advertise. Would you then say that a 5000 is too course for a final stone ?

 

[Stevem627]

I love my Shapton glass 4k as a final stone. I also use it for quick touch ups now instead of my ceramic rod. It obviously cuts well since it leaves swarf quickly and you have to keep it clean since it loads up pretty fast.

 

[pavhav]

If the shapton pro's have a lower JIS grit then they advertise. Would you then say that a 5000 is too course for a final stone ?

I think the SP 1K is coarser than advertised, not the 5K. And "too course" will depend on the steel, use case scenario and (mostly) preference. 5K is plenty fine for most people, but the Shapton Pro 5K just isn't the most popular stone. I have one, and don't hate it, but would also steer you towards some of the other stones mentioned above: SG 4K, Chosera 3K, Morihei 4K, Belgian Blue, and Aizu for edges. Ouka 3K, and Kitayamas are also nice for polishing. And then there's the Karasu 9K, and the . . . . (Wanders off into the distance muttering other whetstone names).

 

[HappyamateurDK]

I think the SP 1K is coarser than advertised, not the 5K. And "too course" will depend on the steel, use case scenario and (mostly) preference. 5K is plenty fine for most people, but the Shapton Pro 5K just isn't the most popular stone. I have one, and don't hate it, but would also steer you towards some of the other stones mentioned above: SG 4K, Chosera 3K, Morihei 4K, Belgian Blue, and Aizu for edges. Ouka 3K, and Kitayamas are also nice for polishing. And then there's the Karasu 9K, and the . . . . (Wanders off into the distance muttering other whetstone names).

I already have a kitayama 4K and a Morihei 6K.. maybe I don't really need the shapton

I just enjoy my 1K so much

 

[HumbleHomeCook]

For the knives I want to finish on a higher grit it is on a Shapton Glass 4k, Belgian Blue, or Hard Arkansas. All are excellent finishing stones.

 

[Benuser]

If the shapton pro's have a lower JIS grit then they advertise. Would you then say that a 5000 is too course for a final stone ?

All stones in a series have a very different character. Have no idea about the Shapton 5k.

 

[pavhav]

maybe I don't really need the shapton

It is always fun to experiment, but I definitely wouldn't describe it as a "need" if you already have a 4K and a 6K.

 

[daveb]

I'm a Shapton fan boy. But. Could never find anything the SP5000 was good at.

The SP1000 and SP2000 is a great pair for a quick session and is a combo I use on cheaper knives. As mentioned above the SP1000 cuts like a lower grit while the SP2000 cuts a little higher than rating.

The SP1000 and SG4000 is a combo I use on my own stainless and friends Shun and Shun lite.

The SP1000, SP2000 and SG6000 is good for the good knives.

And if you don't have a SG500, you're missing one.

 

[aporigine]

Most people give strippers money, but hey if you find one that takes whetstones, I say that's a keeper that you should consider marrying.

What’s the better stripper name —
Chosera? Nanohoney? Nakeyama? Coquetticule?

 

[daveb]

I dated one called Nano Honey....

 

[Yoshi]

I dated one called Nano Honey....

It's better that she's called nanohoney than you being called that

 

[Benuser]

Beyond need, offering a lot of bite with carbons and fine grained stainless: JNS synthetic Aoto 1-4k

 

[tostadas]

The shapton 5k is too fine for my tastes, not enough bite. Here are my favorites:


Shapton pro 2k: very fast, hard, lots of bite, good for proteins, can want to bite into board

Belgian blue: hard, not quite as fast as the sp2k, edge is more refined but it can be tweaked with use of a slurry stone to go more or less aggressive. This is my go-to for most cases.

Jns synthetic red aoto: softer than the others, similar speed to Bbw, advertised as 2-4k which seems accurate, huge stone for the money which can be good or bad. I don't take this one out as often because it's like double the size/weight of the others,but it's a great stone.

 

[HappyamateurDK]

Thanks for all your inputs.

I ended up going a different way and bought a kitayama 8K from JNS.

 

[cotedupy]

Thanks for all your inputs.

I ended up going a different way and bought a kitayama 8K from JNS.

You've done well to avoid the SP5k, it's not a very good knife stone, and given that no one on this thread has jumped in to defend it - I don't think that's even a matter for debate. Most of the rest of the SP range is good to excellent; the 1k and 2k in particular are superb stones, but the 5k is a bit of a stinker.

The reasons it's not very good (as others have pointed out) are that; it's hard, it's slow, and it glazes.

Shapton's grit rating system is a little lower than equivalent JIS if you compare micron size, ie the SP1k is roughly analogous to an 800 JIS. But 'grit level' isn't the only factor that affects an edge. Faster and/or softer stones will produce more toothy edges, which lowers what I sometimes call the 'effective grit or finish level'. Slower and/or harder stones produce more polished edges, raising the effective grit level.

Comparing two stones at extreme ends of the spectrum: The hard and slow SP5k actually finishes higher than it's grit rating would suggest, the edges are very polished, they lack bite. The Suehiro Rika or Cerax 5k may well have a slightly smaller average particle size than the Shapton because it's a JIS rating, but it's a soft and muddy stone, and most people (myself included) would rate the effective grit around 4k or even below.