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Corradobrit1 said:
I imagine the knife scene would have looked very different back then. Would many of the offerings we covert now even have been available 20 years ago. 🤔
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Since this is a Shig thread, yup. Kramers were available, Doi's, and a few others. Seems every few years a maker is hot but loses steam, but there are a few that last.
 
Hz_zzzzzz said:
I was speaking in general. For Shig, Tokifusa Iizukayea is 78 so his two sons might be 45-55? Not sure though. We will have some time to appreciate their work.
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If the two sons are the ones to the right in the group shot than 45-55 sounds about right. And if prices keep going up at the rate we're seeing now, they may retire early.........
Very clean shop compared to say Kiyoshi Kato's or Tanaka btw
 
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I blame KKF for the bulk of price increases, since its inception, or at least since there are so many members that are so willingly persuaded within one month of membership to trade their Wusthof Grand Prix for 2500$ worth of J-knives.

I am NOT insane.
 
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ModRQC said:
I blame KKF for the bulk of price increases, since its inception, or at least since they are so many members that are so willingly persuaded within one month of membership to trade their Wusthof Grand Prix for 2500$ worth of J-knives.

I am NOT insane.
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So true. Mazaki price just reflects how good the wholesalers/vendors are at understanding the market.
 
AFKitchenknivesguy said:
Prices are primarily the fault of the secondary market.

I.e. Shig family is not getting rich.
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If you're right, primary market you should also blame. They did follow suit, instead of keeping a rational price. Why would THEY pocket high amounts of money, and not the maker. And why would it make sense that they can? I am guessing, Shig family might not be getting rich, but they're still getting a whole lot more dough than they used to, apparently.
 
ModRQC said:
I blame KKF for the bulk of price increases, since its inception, or at least since there are so many members that are so willingly persuaded within one month of membership to trade their Wusthof Grand Prix for 2500$ worth of J-knives.

I am NOT insane.
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So true, I thought I was pushing the boat out with $50 Sabs. Then I stumbled on the rabbit hole that is KKF
 
AFKitchenknivesguy said:
I'm sorry if this sounds judgmental, no insult meaning, but economics 101. Where the opportunity lies, fulfill it, all around.
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No I get the logic. But the same logic applies with the maker first hand. At least if it doesn't, then I'm sorry to say, not judgmentally, that they are even more of the fool than the modern buyer...
 
Corradobrit1 said:
So true, I thought I was pushing the boat out with $50 Sabs. Then I stumbled on the rabbit hole that is KKF
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Anyone not agreeing should look at this thread carefully. 5 years and a half, going on a 71th page of "Shig Alert"... meaning you folks spend more than 10 pages of posts a year just focusing and commenting the availability of ONE maker.

EDIT: If I was said maker, long time ago I would become member here, triple my cost, and sell direct - no need to expand coverage, we can produce enough knives to meet demand, and we're getting rich not having to deal with 10 vendors....
 
ModRQC said:
Anyone not agreeing should look at this thread carefully. 5 years and a half, going on a 71th page of "Shig Alert"... meaning you folks spend more than 10 pages of posts a year just focusing and commenting the availability of ONE maker.

EDIT: If I was said maker, long time ago I would become member here, triple my cost, and sell direct - no need to expand coverage, we can produce enough knives to meet demand, and we're getting rich not having to deal with 10 vendors....
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Been that way since the beginning.
 
The only caveat being that many of these makers are fulfilling contracts that could be many years old (maybe 5+ for the likes of Kato and Ashi Hamono). Unless they renegotiated the pricing to current market they would be getting the short end of the stick financially .
 
Hz_zzzzzz said:
I was speaking in general. For Shig, Tokifusa Iizukayea is 78 so his two sons might be 45-55? Not sure though. We will have some time to appreciate their work.
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Exactly why I bought my shig (albeit a KU, cuz that's all I got) now. When Izuka Sr. passes, I think the value of shigs - especially the higher end shigs (kitaeji, single bevels, etc) - will drop.
 
nakiriknaifuwaifu said:
Exactly why I bought my shig (albeit a KU, cuz that's all I got) now. When Izuka Sr. passes, I think the value of shigs - especially the higher end shigs (kitaeji, single bevels, etc) - will drop.
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U say this but...
a lot of evidence shows that most of the leg work is done by the two sons nowadays. Unless their standards completely drop once old man Iizuka goes I don’t see it. The quality won’t drop one iota. Maybe the kanji will change a little on the single bevels.

either way I’m pissed I missed that 210 (although I would’ve had to dip in my joint account with my wife which would’ve led to me being a victim of homicide.). The kitaeji are starting to get priced out but the kasumi are still doable. From what I hear it’s only an aesthetic difference. Hell one of the biggest Shig collectors in the world told me his go to is the 180 KU Santoku.

I think once Mr Iizuka passes the kitaeji will become one of the rarest knives out there. I’m glad I’m lucky enough to have gotten a petty when I did (and wasn’t completely gouged either)
 
Southpaw said:
U say this but...
a lot of evidence shows that most of the leg work is done by the two sons nowadays. Unless their standards completely drop once old man Iizuka goes I don’t see it. The quality won’t drop one iota. Maybe the kanji will change a little on the single bevels.

either way I’m pissed I missed that 210 (although I would’ve had to dip in my joint account with my wife which would’ve led to me being a victim of homicide.). The kitaeji are starting to get priced out but the kasumi are still doable. From what I hear it’s only an aesthetic difference. Hell one of the biggest Shig collectors in the world told me his go to is the 180 KU Santoku.

I think once Mr Iizuka passes the kitaeji will become one of the rarest knives out there. I’m glad I’m lucky enough to have gotten a petty when I did (and wasn’t completely gouged either)
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I realize that Izuka Sr is likely not cranking out KU nakiris and petties, but having him oversee the steel and the chance that he looked at the knife or was in same forge as the knife is enough for me.

That's why I said that the value of the higher end shigs are going to be most impacted.

However, I think there will be a distinction among Izuka and Post-Izuka knives at all levels.
 
nakiriknaifuwaifu said:
I realize that Izuka Sr is likely not cranking out KU nakiris and petties, but having him oversee the steel and the chance that he looked at the knife or was in same forge as the knife is enough for me.

That's why I said that the value of the higher end shigs are going to be most impacted.

However, I think there will be a distinction among Izuka and Post-Izuka knives at all levels.
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U think? How long have his sons been doing this? It’s not like they’re in their 20s. They’re middle aged. I’d expect to see some differences down the line, but not immediately. U look at Mazaki, he’s relatively young compared to them... his knives seem to adjust in every batch. Iizuka-San’s sons (glad I didn’t have to say that out loud) have made their bones since Mazaki was in short pants!
 
Southpaw said:
U think? How long have his sons been doing this? It’s not like they’re in their 20s. They’re middle aged. I’d expect to see some differences down the line, but not immediately. U look at Mazaki, he’s relatively young compared to them... his knives seem to adjust in every batch. Iizuka-San’s sons (glad I didn’t have to say that out loud) have made their bones since Mazaki was in short pants!
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I'm not saying the knives would or wouldn't change, I'm talking about price and collectability.

A knife - especially a kitaeji and/or single bevel - that was made when Izuka was in the shop will fetch more than the same knife made after Izuka retires.
 
nakiriknaifuwaifu said:
I'm not saying the knives would or wouldn't change, I'm talking about price and collectability.

A knife - especially a kitaeji and/or single bevel - that was made when Izuka was in the shop will fetch more than the same knife made after Izuka retires.
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Oh! Then yes I 1,000% agree with u!

so here’s a question:

should/do you want Shigefusa kanji to change after Izuka’s passing?
 
I for one believe am a student of the school of manufacturers raising the price until there's stuff in stock at least half the days of the year.

Id rather see higher primary market prices than secondary, but that's just me.

The fact that one lasted for a couple of hours at 900 suggests we're at least close to the correct price.

That being said it's up to each individual to look at all the available options at any given price and decide if they want this or that.
 
Southpaw said:
Oh! Then yes I 1,000% agree with u!

so here’s a question:

should/do you want Shigefusa kanji to change after Izuka’s passing?
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Kanji should not be diminished in any way. He trained them and if they are deserving, they should inherit it. Maybe they could add to it to differentiate the changing of the guard. I know that Nao Yamamoto inherited the right to use the Asai name and he wasn't the son.
 
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tcmx3 said:
I for one believe am a student of the school of manufacturers raising the price until there's stuff in stock at least half the days of the year.

Id rather see higher primary market prices than secondary, but that's just me.

The fact that one lasted for a couple of hours at 900 suggests we're at least close to the correct price.

That being said it's up to each individual to look at all the available options at any given price and decide if they want this or that.
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Yeah, kinda right. For most industries that's correct, but the artisinal/essentially art market is different. Add in the fact there is a potential global depression from Covid, that means the market can only go up. Considering they've gone so fast during the lock down, means there is potential for upward trends. We shall see with time.
 
AFKitchenknivesguy said:
Yeah, kinda right. For most industries that's correct, but the artisinal/essentially art market is different. Add in the fact there is a potential global depression from Covid, that means the market can only go up. Considering they've gone so fast during the lock down, means there is potential for upward trends. We shall see with time.
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I assure you that the second you start to say things like "can only go up" you will be proven wrong.

The SP500 is strong, high end products are riding high as a result. Were that to crash, all this imaginary value in illiquid assets is gonna get a serious shock just like last time. I collected books before 2008 that market still hasnt 100% recovered.
 
Southpaw said:
either way I’m pissed I missed that 210 (although I would’ve had to dip in my joint account with my wife which would’ve led to me being a victim of homicide.).
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Aaaah Americans and their simplicity... far worse than victim of homicide, and more probable, is victim of insidious form of emasculation... 😜
 
tcmx3 said:
I assure you that the second you start to say things like "can only go up" you will be proven wrong.

The SP500 is strong, high end products are riding high as a result. Were that to crash, all this imaginary value in illiquid assets is gonna get a serious shock just like last time. I collected books before 2008 that market still hasnt 100% recovered.
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Its only as matter of time. Stock markets are way overpriced.
 
The US M2 supply has went up from 15 trillion to 19 trillion in 10 months, and the interest rate is 0. The stock market does seem overpriced but I don’t know when it will crash.
 
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