Shipping Outside the USA?

[HumbleHomeCook]

So, I hate that folks outside the USA miss out on so many BST opportunities and I myself have listed as USA/Territories Only. I did that mainly because I didn't know what was involved in shipping outside the USA and I was still new to selling.

So, what does it take to mail/ship outside the states? Is it a big hassle? Lots of forms? Printed forms?

Are there places that are riskier than others due to theft, customs, etc?

How do you work out payment? Meaning, say you advertise you'll pay $20 and buyer pays the rest. Do you collect that after it's shipped and you know the full cost?

As always, thanks in advance KKF.

 

[ethompson]

I've done it quite a few times and every time USPS has had the best prices. Someone with access to commercial pricing may have an alternative experience on that. In terms of effort, it's really not hard at all. Maybe an extra few minutes beyond what it'd take to ship domestically and an extra two pages to print. The post office I go to has the little plastic envelope for customs documents and applies the label with that envelope inside for me when I drop off.

I usually get a quote for shipping using the potential buyer's actually address and then check that they are okay with that then complete the transaction. In total I bet it takes me no more than 10 extra minutes to ship internationally as compared to domestically.

 

[esoo]

I'd assume shipping outside of the US is like shipping outside of Canada - you figure out the extra rate and have to fill out the customs paperwork.

 

[sansho]

basically you just have to declare what you're shipping. if you do it online, it's more convenient than filling out a customs declaration form yourself because they autofill it for you. also, the form is built into the shipping label.

i suggest using pirate ship:

https://www.pirateship.com/

 

[HumbleHomeCook]

I've done it quite a few times and every time USPS has had the best prices. Someone with access to commercial pricing may have an alternative experience on that. In terms of effort, it's really not hard at all. Maybe an extra few minutes beyond what it'd take to ship domestically and an extra two pages to print. The post office I go to has the little plastic envelope for customs documents and applies the label with that envelope inside for me when I drop off.

I usually get a quote for shipping using the potential buyer's actually address and then check that they are okay with that then complete the transaction. In total I bet it takes me no more than 10 extra minutes to ship internationally as compared to domestically.

So do you have to print and fill out the forms before going to the PO? Our printer broke and we've just never replaced it.

 

[Nemo]

Regional Au here. As a buyer, the main issue for me is the cost. Makes something that looks like good value into very ordinary value. The least I've paid is circa 50 USD, the most circa 80 USD. Delivery to the big cities in Au does seem to be a little less.

The import duties/GST (VAT) are also an issue. I can't remember if the threshold for these is still 1000 AUD or if it got reduced.

 

[sansho]

also i print out the prepaid/prefilled labels on these. adhesive-backed 4x6 that can go into a normal printer usually. assuming it accepts 4x6 media.

https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B07RT2MFB6

 

[MarcelNL]

The EU is one and the same system, in principle...and couriers know how to handle things, it comes down to knowing which courier to pick for what region...unfortunately that is a moving target. So that ought not to be a major hassle. Customs declarations are online , usually integrated in the couriers systems so you do the work for which they get paid ;-) And get paid another time when they 'handle paying VAT and duty on import' asking a nice fee from the buyer.


For provate sales prepaying VAT is not appliccabe, so when you plan shipping using your account with a courier you can see what S&H will cost, import duty and VAT/sales tax is normally billed to receiver based on total cost (total of sales price plus S&H).
Insurance is a thing, normally the sender dictates S&H conditions and carries the risk until delivery, unless something else is agreed upon with the buyer. I have a shipment on the way where the seller now is paying another shipping fee, simply because the courier f*&^% up and the seller is not going to make them do it right. A friend of me shipped something and the buyer reported he did not receive it after 6 weeks...courier says they have no records anymore so he is in for shipping and loss of the article.

USPS....well, do not get me started on reliability of actually receiving stuff...I refuse to buy anything from a buyer insisting on using USPS.

 

[ethompson]

So do you have to print and fill out the forms before going to the PO? Our printer broke and we've just never replaced it.

I believe there is an option to pay for and fill out the forms online and have them print it for you when you get there.

 

[esoo]

So do you have to print and fill out the forms before going to the PO? Our printer broke and we've just never replaced it.

For Canada Post you can fill out the customs paperwork ahead of time and it can email you a barcode. Scan that at the post office and they'll print the paperwork for you.

The only annoyance is that from Canada to international you can't ship with insurance from home - you have to do it at the post office.

And sometimes that rates are insane. Shipping to the US is ok, but the rest of the planet can be triple the price if you want decent tracking.

 

[sansho]

So, I hate that folks outside the USA miss out on so many BST opportunities and I myself have listed as USA/Territories Only. I did that mainly because I didn't know what was involved in shipping outside the USA and I was still new to selling.

So, what does it take to mail/ship outside the states? Is it a big hassle? Lots of forms? Printed forms?

Are there places that are riskier than others due to theft, customs, etc?

How do you work out payment? Meaning, say you advertise you'll pay $20 and buyer pays the rest. Do you collect that after it's shipped and you know the full cost?

As always, thanks in advance KKF.

imo...

buying shipping labels online (like with pirate ship) helps with a lot of these issues. you put their address in and can conveniently get the price. also, you can cancel labels if you buy them and make a mistake or change your mind.

you can also get insurance for the buyer if desired, but if the buyer wants that, you have to declare the insured value.

i've never shipped a knife internationally, but i know some countries are weird about things declared as "knives". whenever you do an international shipment, you should always let the buyer decide exactly how to declare it, and you should declare it precisely like they say. you can make suggestions to try to be helpful, but you should always leave it up to them in the end. that way, if there's a problem, it's on them. likewise, they should be in charge of the declared value.

tldr: it's their package. ask what they want it declared as, the declared value, and if they want insurance for the declared value they chose.

as for money, i would probably offer to pay what i expect US shipping would cost on average. so let's say 20 bucks or whatever like you suggested.

 

[superworrier]

If shipping with USPS, do not buy the label there. I use USPS but buy from stamps.com. The official website is terminally broken and the post office workers have no idea what they're doing. I looked up some issues I had online and it's been straight up broken for years.

 

[McMan]

If you have a good convenient local (or neighborhood) post office staffed by knowledgable employees, then shipping international is about as easy as shipping domestic. The few additional forms might add 2 mins, and if you have any questions the friendly clerk answers them.

But... if Dante designed your post office, then shipping international will be exquisitely frustrating and an astounding confounding time-sink--so much so that doing it once is enough.

In other words, it can be a huge hassle to ship international using USPS for reasons that are not on paper. I suspect many sellers list conus not because they're wary of the paperwork but because they're opposed to the PO hassle. I'm in this camp.

UPS/DHL are easy but pricey. IIRC USPS can also get pricey if tracking is required (which nowadays it is considering PP risks, etc.).

@Brian Weekley asked a similar question earlier and there was good discussion here:
https://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/threads/conus-only-….55678/#post-848504

 

[sansho]

more thoughts...

you and the buyer should agree ahead of time what happens in the event of package loss or if it gets returned to sender.

 

[MarcelNL]

more thoughts...

you and the buyer should agree ahead of time what happens in the event of package loss or if it gets returned to sender.

EU law puts the risk on the seller, both for commercial and provate sales, for private sales you CAN agree something differen not so for commercial sales.

(just had to look it up as a seller wanted me to pay for re sending a package where the courier messe dup and returned the package to sender without any reason)

 

[M1k3]

1. Shipping to Kangaroo-land is $$$$$

2. DHL is $$$$$ but generally just gets there

3. At least for me, the local USPS locations and workers are 1 million times more into their job than the people at the main location

4. Might as well chuck a sickle if shipping to Kangaroo-land and probably their neighbors in Mordor also.

 

[MarcelNL]

rule nr 1; all couriers suck....
rule nr 2; in some regions some couriers suck less often then others
rule nr 3 a good courier makes things right when they mess up
good couriers are rare ...and expensive...but worth it when the shipment matters (try World Courier)

generally shipping from and to the US somehow aeems to be far more expensive than similar distances elswhere?

 

[tag98]

Being canadian ive had many things come up from the states over the years from various hobbies, ive only ever once had a package lost out of dozens if not hundreds and it was squarly on usps not the seller. That said it should be known by the buyer that customs may or may not apply so they should be prepared to pay them and that the cost will be higher which i for one am happy to deal with for items i want. As for payment i typically use paypal for international however i have now used wise a couple times and can say its fees are lower and its exchange is better, that said there is no back up like paypal provides so use with caution.

 

[ptolemy]

Having shipped many packages outside the USA from ones that weight 5oz to 30lbs (including multiple laptops and at one time 15 tablets in 1 box), here are my thoughts:

1. It's expensive... These days, anything over 1lbs, expect to pay $30+ via USPS and MUCH MORE via ups, fedex, dhl
2. There is a lot of risk in 3 different ways: 1. Buyer import fees (these vary by country and how anal customs ppl can be). 2. What happens if package is lost (pretty huge risk and very little you can do with USPS), ups, fedex, dhl usually much more reliable but customs opening rate is nearly 100% (usps around 50%) and cost to ship 2-3x of USPS. 3. custom brands brands, may have also issues and demand invoices, proof of value - if the cannot google it (for custom fees assignment), which could mean days to a few weeks of delays.
3. But, overall packing and shipping is very similar with paypal shipping or some other service. It's just few extra screens you fill out, then print them, and attach to outside. Be sure you sign them, of course.

 

[cotedupy]

Now this is an interesting q. isn't it...

The CONUS only thing has always slightly puzzled me. Originally I thought it was probably something to do with all the hoo-ha (which I never quite understood) about postal services in the run up to the last US election. And that people in the states, perhaps for good reason, were slightly less trusting of their postal services than people in other countries. Maybe that is part of the reason...?

---

However I have sent hundreds of packages all over the world in the last couple of years, and received dozens myself. Nothing has ever been lost either sent or received. International shipping is extremely reliable.

As mentioned above - filling in a customs form takes about two minutes. There are no tricksy questions, it's all just blindingly easy.

Yes things take longer. Obviously.

And costs more than sending stuff domestically. Obviously.

The things that we buy and sell on BST are relatively high value items, and often quite rare, unique, or difficult to buy. If someone wants to buy something from someone in another country then they are going to realise that shipping internationally takes longer and costs more. And in the grand scheme of things an extra $20 is probably not going to be a deal-breaker on a highly desired knife or stone.

The cost of sending things internationally from the US is broadly comparable to sending international parcels from other countries. Along with sending from the UK it may be at the higher end of the spectrum, but it's not crazy. One thing that is noticeable is that prices for shipping from the US seem to increase quite dramatically with weight. Heavier items such as large stones are going to cost a lot sending from the US. Knives not so much - they'd be in line with other country's shipping charges.

Customs charges can come into play. But again I think this is something that any potential buyer realises is on them, it has nothing to do with the seller. And it's actually quite rare for things to receive customs charges. The exception is when sending things to mainland Europe - they're quite hot on customs charges there.

---

Perhaps I am underestimating how inept and/or difficult US postal services are. But I doubt it - I've bought and received lots of stuff from people here without any hassle whatsoever.

So come on Americans... what gives?!

 

[ptolemy]

Now this is an interesting q. isn't it...

The CONUS only thing has always slightly puzzled me. Originally I thought it was probably something to do with all the hoo-ha (which I never quite understood) about postal services in the run up to the last US election. And that people in the states, perhaps for good reason, were slightly less trusting of their postal services than people in other countries. Maybe that is part of the reason...?

---

However I have sent hundreds of packages all over the world in the last couple of years, and received dozens myself. Nothing has ever been lost either sent or received. International shipping is extremely reliable.

As mentioned above - filling in a customs form takes about two minutes. There are no tricksy questions, it's all just blindingly easy.

Yes things take longer. Obviously.

And costs more than sending stuff domestically. Obviously.

The things that we buy and sell on BST are relatively high value items, and often quite rare, unique, or difficult to buy. If someone wants to buy something from someone in another country then they are going to realise that shipping internationally takes longer and costs more. And in the grand scheme of things an extra $20 is probably not going to be a deal-breaker on a highly desired knife or stone.

The cost of sending things internationally from the US is broadly comparable to sending international parcels from other countries. Along with sending from the UK it may be at the higher end of the spectrum, but it's not crazy. One thing that is noticeable is that prices for shipping from the US seem to increase quite dramatically with weight. Heavier items such as large stones are going to cost a lot sending from the US. Knives not so much - they'd be in line with other country's shipping charges.

Customs charges can come into play. But again I think this is something that any potential buyer realises is on them, it has nothing to do with the seller. And it's actually quite rare for things to receive customs charges. The exception is when sending things to mainland Europe - they're quite hot on customs charges there.

---

Perhaps I am underestimating how inept and/or difficult US postal services are. But I doubt it - I've bought and received lots of stuff from people here without any hassle whatsoever.

So come on Americans... what gives?!

it's not that... if it gets lost, then what happens then... I lost 3-5 ups packages in the last 10 years and they found them all. If you are sending a $2k knife, then you better insure it and then buyer will get charged... maybe not in australia but europe and canada for sure... I have sold watches in past, and we're talking about used/well worn, 10+ year old watches, for $500-1000 range and canada still charged 20% import duties... and this was 10 years ago.

here is how I look at it. I will gladly ship anywhere in the world with any method, as long as buyer takes responsibility for all shipping/important related fees. My only job is to pack it securely, fill out forms correctly (to their specs, i.e calling new, used...) and ship it out. The other issue is.. if it's paid via goods and services, then buyer can file it with PP and if tracking doesn't show delivered, it's an easy decision for paypal to reverse the funds...

so, in the end, it all comes down to liability with payment services and deliveries... I for one, would love to be able to ship worldwide to allow ones who cannot get certain items in certain parts of the world to be able to get it..

 

[cotedupy]

Ah yeah, absolutely. Maybe I wasn't all that clear in my post, but at the end of the day this:

here is how I look at it. I will gladly ship anywhere in the world with any method, as long as buyer takes responsibility for all shipping/important related fees. My only job is to pack it securely, fill out forms correctly (to their specs, i.e calling new, used...) and ship it out. The other issue is.. if it's paid via goods and services, then buyer can file it with PP and if tracking doesn't show delivered, it's an easy decision for paypal to reverse the funds

If I send (or receive) something internationally that gets a customs charge, then I certainly wouldn't expect the person sending it to have any liability for that whatsoever. And I think people buying things from abroad understand that, and know about customs and duty in their own countries, perhaps more used it than people in the states (?)

I've never sent a parcel over $1k, but if I did then I would most certainly be insuring it, with more likelihood that it may be noticed by customs. And if receiving something likewise - I would take that into account.

My point was that none of it rocket science, and it's reasonable to expect that a buyer will know it's them that pays their own country's tax. Not the seller. So I think perhaps what people who post CONUS only sales might fail to realise, is that anyone wanting to buy their fancy knife / stone / whatever... is well aware of that.

 

[daddy yo yo]

it's not that... if it gets lost, then what happens then... I lost 3-5 ups packages in the last 10 years and they found them all. If you are sending a $2k knife, then you better insure it and then buyer will get charged... maybe not in australia but europe and canada for sure... I have sold watches in past, and we're talking about used/well worn, 10+ year old watches, for $500-1000 range and canada still charged 20% import duties... and this was 10 years ago.

here is how I look at it. I will gladly ship anywhere in the world with any method, as long as buyer takes responsibility for all shipping/important related fees. My only job is to pack it securely, fill out forms correctly (to their specs, i.e calling new, used...) and ship it out. The other issue is.. if it's paid via goods and services, then buyer can file it with PP and if tracking doesn't show delivered, it's an easy decision for paypal to reverse the funds...

so, in the end, it all comes down to liability with payment services and deliveries... I for one, would love to be able to ship worldwide to allow ones who cannot get certain items in certain parts of the world to be able to get it..

You name the issue with PP from a seller‘s point of view. PP will MAYBE quickly refund the buyer. I say maybe because their T&C are quite, uhm, flexible when it comes to refunds. I mean they are as bad as any other insurance out there and they will quickly and easily find a reason why NOT to issue a refund.

Oh, and even if PP refunds the money to the buyer, the seller still has the chance and right to ask the money back from the carrier.

All that is clearly just valid in case of damage (very tricky) and loss. Many carriers only offer insurance for loss and none for damages! This is valid for international and national shipments. It is the seller‘s obligation to find out T&C and choose the one that is best for him - I say that from a seller‘s point of view.

Shipping cost: international is more expensive, but at least in EU, not much. I can ship a knife in EU for approx. 15€, international won’t cost much more than 25€. That goes for (standard Austrian) Post. Other carriers are much more expensive, starting from approx. 80€ up to over 100€.

From a buyer‘s perspective, shipping from the US to EU is CRAZY (!!!) expensive!!! But as a buyer, I can choose if I want to buy and pay for that (crazy expensive) shipping. Up to me to decide.

Paperwork for international shipping/customs declaration won’t take much more than 2-5 minutes. And „paperwork“ (for customs) is relative as with Austrian Post you can (actually have to) do everything online.

 

[Luftmensch]

So come on Americans... what gives?!

If I were to sell... I would sell "CONAUS only" just so I could use bank-to-bank transfer and AusPost. I have a few too many project knifes that I should move on (recycling and all that). But I am too lazy and am apathetic about selling them.... One day!! Definitely too lazy to go the extra step of organising international shipping. To be fair... I am very busy chucking sickles!

I can't remember if the threshold for these is still 1000 AUD or if it got reduced.

If I remember correctly: to much consternation and gnashing of teeth, the Government aimed to tax all overseas purchases. Essentially they wanted to flatten the field between big E-commerce and local retailers (and no doubt, wanted a slice of that revenue). I am fine with this. Particularly the way it works in practice. You can buy from a small independent retailer overseas without paying GST. Big retailers like Amazon and Ebay are required to collect GST on transactions. Again; fine by me!

But the 1000 AUD threshold remains. You still have to pay a processing fee and the correct duty on 'high-value' imports. Be careful with this one.... I admit I am straying outside of my knowledge... but I suspect you have to do due diligence and ensure you are not being taxed twice. If you buy from a big retailer that charges GST, you will probably need to submit that invoice to customs so that they dont charge you a duty on top of that..... Again; I am not certain about this...

Another hunch.... I suspect the 1000 AUD threshold is a bit of a roll of the dice. I bet the number of inbound packages has swamped the system. I would not be surprised if many packages over 1000AUD slip through without taxation. I suspect that small packages, slightly above the threshold attract less attention than large or very expensive items.... It also probably depends on who the carrier is. Just speculating though....

 

[Bensbites]

I have made a few international sales, BST here and direct. Half the time it’s been fine. A couple fun examples.

1) shipping to Canada the client got hit with a import charge that was half his invoice. He spend a couple hours dealing with paperwork and doing some of his legwork and it was reduced to less than 10%.

2) customs in a foreign country loosing a package. A very motivated buyer went and chased it through office and office, finally found it.

3) it happened to me once. Where USPS wouldn’t insure the package for more than $200. Other shippers will, but I didn’t know that at the time.

4) the % of people that want to ship with something declared lower or zero value to avoid tariffs. I get it, but then it ships without insurance. I don’t want to be in the business of seeing someone angry when the disaster fairy strikes.

5) international shipping can take 40 days before you can file a lost package. Clients get annoyed, my reputation is worth more … see point 2.

I still sell international when asked… I don’t have to like it.

 

[HumbleHomeCook]

I haven't sold anything on BST over $200USD so I reckon many international sellers wouldn't see value in paying all the associated shipping costs.

I wonder when those scales start to tip? I know that's highly subjective, just pondering is all.

 

[tgfencer]

Something to keep in mind when shipping internationally is whether the shipping company you are using is in control of the package from drop-off to delivery, as are most courier services like DHL, UPS, and Fedex, or whether they hand off to local post services once it crosses the border. I usually ask buyers what they feel most comfortable with since they know their countries better than I do. I've had a number of people say they didn't want USPS, because USPS almost always gets handed off to the national post service of the country you're shipping to and that can be a mixed bag. I dislike shipping internationally just because of the extra legwork, time, and sense of risk involved, although I don't know whether it's really any riskier, but it feels a bit like every extra day in the mail gives more chances for stuff to go wrong.

I will say that Shippo and Parcel Monkey have been sites that several people have recommended to me here on the forum for getting cheaper shipping rates through major companies. I haven't used either, but know people who do regularly and like them. Maybe other folks can chime in.

 

[Se1ryu]

So, I hate that folks outside the USA miss out on so many BST opportunities and I myself have listed as USA/Territories Only. I did that mainly because I didn't know what was involved in shipping outside the USA and I was still new to selling.

So, what does it take to mail/ship outside the states? Is it a big hassle? Lots of forms? Printed forms?

Are there places that are riskier than others due to theft, customs, etc?

How do you work out payment? Meaning, say you advertise you'll pay $20 and buyer pays the rest. Do you collect that after it's shipped and you know the full cost?

As always, thanks in advance KKF.

Easy, just use EMS (via local post) not too expensive and you just drop the package in your local post office. You can check the shipping cost online.

People can choose FedEx or DHL but the cost is more expensive and normally you have to pay a lot of hidden fees like handling fee, etc...


These days we can use a lot of shipping courier for low cost and very effective. You can always pay for extra insurance for item that cost more than $100, so Incase your package is damaged or loose during the shipment they will cover in full the item cost.

 

[ethompson]

When shipping more expensive items abroad that people want marked a certain way on customs forms etc. I always ask for F&F if the desired declared value doesn't match the selling price. Pretty simple - I'll accept G&S and you get buyer protection, but I'm going to ship insured for the full value so that if something goes wrong I have an avenue to get your money back. If you want it declared at a lower value, not insured, etc - then its time to take full liability for the item and pay F&F so I can't get bit by a PP chargeback down the line if things don't go right.

 

[PappaG]

Nothing at all against my international friends and colleagues but I don't ship internationally. I know national pricing with USPS, usually down to the penny and all shipping options from boxes to bubble wrapped packages. I just lack familiarity with the international shipping process and have not had reason to learn. I'm probably not going to figure it out just to sell a few knives or a few stones. So call it laziness, ignorance or a "hassle", but it is probably all those things. Listen, I don't really want to sell anything I list for sale anyway, so any mental barrier I can create, I do.