Skillet or Saute to pair with Lyonnaise Skillets?

[MAS4T0]

I'd appreciate some thoughts on this.

I always tend towards Lyonnaise skillets, my current stable is Turk and Demeyere's Pawson. They're great, but you lose a lot of internal space - the 28cm Demeyere has a base diameter of just 22cm (and this is the largest in the range).

I'm looking for something with a wider base, and I'm tending towards the Demeyere (Pawson or Atlantis) saute pan. I have Pawson Dutch Ovens and Saucepans with the same base construction as the saute (encapsulated copper disc) and really like them.

Would there be any benefits going for a skillet (Demeyere Proline) over a saute?

What would you go for in the same situation?

Thank you for your help, it's greatly appreciated.

 

[WildBoar]

For my uses, the lower sides of a skillet can make flipping some foods easier. And the sloped sides make it easier to 'toss' the pan contents. They also are usually a little lighter than a saute pan of the same diameter.

If you want a skillet that has sides a bit less flared, All-Clad's "French skillets" fit the bill, although I would only but one during a good sale. Ideally you would have both saute pans and skillets if your budget and storage space allow. I would have a skillet first if I could only have one, but only if I had a lid already that would fit over it. We use the heck out of both skillets and saute pans at my house, although often it is a toss-up on which type to use. More often than not the saute pan is used when there will be a big pile of things to cook down (spinach, onions, etc.) or we are cooking chicken parts, etc. on the stovetop and will be braising for a bit of the time.

 

[MAS4T0]

Thank you for the guidance David.

I have quite a few skillets, all Lyonnaise shape.

Would you pair these with a saute?

If I'm understanding you correctly then with a set of skillets already, you'd be inclined to add a saute?

Mostly looking for a larger base, but I've never cooked in a saute pan and I'm thinking that either a saute or a french skillet would fit the bill.

 

[WildBoar]

I'm saying ultimately you would benefit from having both. If the bottom area of the skillets you have are two small, I would consider a "French skillet" with more bottom surface area, as well as a 3-4 QT saute pan. Hard to say which to get first -- I guess the saute pan since you already have some skillets (even if they can't do all you need).

 

[HRC_64]

I'm saying ultimately you would benefit from having both...

Agree. keep in mind not everything you're gonna like....But in basic pan sizes like 24 its good to have lots of shapes/variety of construction. In big sizes like 32 make sure you like the ergonomics of the pan, and it fits well with your heat-souce (matched sizes) etc.

 

[aboynamedsuita]

I have demeyere Atlantis/proline skillets (20/24/32) and sauté pan(24).

I think they’re similar to the John Pawson series with the 7 layer construction but different handles/lids and less angular shape.

One thing to keep in mind is the sauté pan has the encapsulated copper base and vertical sides, and the skillets have the clad sides which flare outward, so even though the bases are a bit smaller the side is slightly usable (if a crowded pan for instance).

The 32cm skillet has about a 28cm base, so is plenty large. The weight distribution in the sauté pan is all in the base so feels a bit odd if you’re trying to lift/rotate about the handle axis.

If I can help with any Atlantis questions let me know

 

[ojisan]

Loving my Turk Classic that has a fairly wide base. Easier to flip stuff on the pan. Pans from Blac Creatives have also wide bases (or they are just shallow).
A saute pan has a wide base, but if you want to use it for stuff you need to flip, it's harder to deal with. I'd choose a shallow pan if I just need a wide base.
US-ION that has a shallow almost-vertical side might be a good choice.

 

[MAS4T0]

Thank you all for the advice.

I have demeyere Atlantis/proline skillets (20/24/32) and sauté pan(24).

The 32cm skillet has about a 28cm base, so is plenty large. The weight distribution in the sauté pan is all in the base so feels a bit odd if you’re trying to lift/rotate about the handle axis.

If I can help with any Atlantis questions let me know

Yeah, the Pawson pans are the same construction as Atlantis, just different handles and skillet shape.

I have a 28cm Pawson Dutch Oven with the same construction as the saute, but with short handles and double height side walls. I can see that bulk being cumbersome in a saute.

Could you please let me know what you use each of the pans for? When do you reach for the saute over a similar size Proline?

I have the 20cm saucepan, which is fine even when full, but it did feel a bit strange at first. Do you find the 24cm saute to be unwieldy or just weighted weirdly?

I've not found anywhere within 100 miles that stocks any of the Atlantis or Pawson pans, so I'll be buying unseen.

Thanks for the help.

 

[MAS4T0]

Can anyone advise on how much difference the side wall height makes to sautéing?

I have sauteed large quantities before in the Dutch Oven, which has the same base construction (as the sauté), but double height sidewalls.

I realise that sidewall height affects evaporation, but the saute seems quite high (probably 50% the height of the Dutch Oven).

 

[WildBoar]

I think it is more about 'ease of use'. If you need to keep things moving in a pan, having sides that are shorter than a dutch oven is helpful.

Pots and pans are like kitchen knives. You can get by with just two or 3, and do all you need to do. Going beyond that is really just getting into shapes that make certain tasks a little easier to execute.

 

[rickbern]

Can anyone advise on how much difference the side wall height makes to sautéing?

I have sauteed large quantities before in the Dutch Oven, which has the same base construction (as the sauté), but double height sidewalls.

I realise that sidewall height affects evaporation, but the saute seems quite high (probably 50% the height of the Dutch Oven).

Mas

Took a couple of pictures for you.

Here’s the actors:

Demeyere proline 24
Carbon steel 24
All clad 10” low sided sauté
Cuisinart 28 high sided sauté

The low sided sauté is certainly more nimble than the high sided but I use the larger one more often. To me, the difference between the two skillets is not vast, more a material difference than a capacity difference but the sauté pans are used more frequently for vegetables and braises.

My thinking is sort of you use a skillet when you’re looking to agitate the pan and you use the sauté when your moving the food around with a wooden spoon or tongs. A 28 cm Dutch oven is a big heavy pot, the deep sauté pan does lots of the same things and is much easier to handle.

I don’t think the sidewall height matters between the two sauté pans. If I had to do it over I wouldn’t have bought the all clad, would have found a deeper one like a demeyere 24

EDIT- I wouldn't want a pan any deeper than the deep sauté. I have a Sitram half stockpot, that's too deep for me.

 

[MAS4T0]

My thinking is sort of you use a skillet when you’re looking to agitate the pan and you use the sauté when your moving the food around with a wooden spoon or tongs. A 28 cm Dutch oven is a big heavy pot, the deep sauté pan does lots of the same things and is much easier to handle.

I don’t think the sidewall height matters between the two sauté pans. If I had to do it over I wouldn’t have bought the all clad, would have found a deeper one like a demeyere 24

EDIT- I wouldn't want a pan any deeper than the deep sauté. I have a Sitram half stockpot, that's too deep for me.

I think it is more about 'ease of use'. If you need to keep things moving in a pan, having sides that are shorter than a dutch oven is helpful.

That's really helpful thank you and thank you, Rick, for the photos.

I've never used a saute pan, and don't even recall seeing them in stores until quite recently (this is in Northern England).

I didn't really understand the unique benefits of a saute pan and I think you've clarified it perfectly.

I like the Lyonnaise shape because utensils slide in so easily, it's almost midway between a crepe pan and a French skillet.

So a saute pan for turning with tongs and a French skillet for agitating the pan? In that case, I think the 24cm Demeyere saute will be the best for me to add first.

Thanks again for the guidance.

 

[rickbern]

I think 24 vs 28 cm sauté pans is kinda like 210 vs 240 gyuto. The 28 is nice to have when you’re cooking for more than 3

 

[Chefget]

Always used a rolled steel poele for sauteing in the kitchen. Methods and definitions vary, but classically the deeper, non-reactive pans were used to make 'Sautes', meat browned in the pan with other ingredients, sauced, tossed and briefly cooked, and served. These are served similar to stews, but the meat hasn't been moisture-cooked.

However the tall sides of a saute pan tend to hinder rapid moisture evaporation, and subsequently proper caramelization. Also, in many kitchens the cooks are trained to keep the bottom of the pans flat to the stove or flattop while flipping. Hella noisy but the heat of the pan is preserved. Hard to flip like this with a tall-sided pan.

Kept the steel pans clean enough to do a quick shallot, splash of wine and butter sauce in, but certainly wouldn't make a 'saute' in one.

Every kitchen should have a classic poele en acier!

 

[Matus]

Have a look at Falk - I have a 28cm saute pan and love it. The surface (stainless) looks like it was sandblasted or something - really works great

 

[TB_London]

Alex pole is making pans in Somerset that are traditionally spun and he’s forging and riveting the handles. I have one of his skillets and so far it’s been great. Taken a good seasoning and is really nice to cook on. They’re pretty reasonably priced as well

 

[rickbern]

Always used a rolled steel poele for sauteing in the kitchen. Methods and definitions vary, but classically the deeper, non-reactive pans were used to make 'Sautes', meat browned in the pan with other ingredients, sauced, tossed and briefly cooked, and served. These are served similar to stews, but the meat hasn't been moisture-cooked.

However the tall sides of a saute pan tend to hinder rapid moisture evaporation, and subsequently proper caramelization. Also, in many kitchens the cooks are trained to keep the bottom of the pans flat to the stove or flattop while flipping. Hella noisy but the heat of the pan is preserved. Hard to flip like this with a tall-sided pan.

Kept the steel pans clean enough to do a quick shallot, splash of wine and butter sauce in, but certainly wouldn't make a 'saute' in one.

Every kitchen should have a classic poele en acier!

Chef,

It’s a bastardized word! I’m not sure how it translates or if it’s just American idiom but the straight sided pan we call a sauté pan is NOT optimized to sauté. Definitely agree either skillet shape (lyonnaise or rounded) is preferable for that use.

Having said that, as a home cook making the same dish for many people and with a deep seated love of braising I find the inappropriately named sauté pan a very useful thing to have around the kitchen. If I were making one portion dishes to order in a restaurant I’d probably feel very differently about it.

 

[aboynamedsuita]

Here is a (partial) family photo:

I have a 28cm Pawson Dutch Oven with the same construction as the saute, but with short handles and double height side walls. I can see that bulk being cumbersome in a saute.

Could you please let me know what you use each of the pans for? When do you reach for the saute over a similar size Proline?

Do you find the 24cm saute to be unwieldy or just weighted weirdly?

I also have a 24cm Dutch oven and stock pot too. Essentially the sauté pan is shorter Dutch oven (maybe 60% of the height) and has a longer handle and a short handle instead of two short handles.

I generally use the 24cm proline unless I need the extra base diameter of the 24cm sauté, and don’t want to use the 32cm proline. The sauté has more depth which is helpful if you want to make a sauce after browning a protein as example. The steamer basket is another consideration in favour for the sauté, but it can also work in the DO and stock pot (which also has a pasta insert)

 

[Chefget]

Chef,

It’s a bastardized word! I’m not sure how it translates or if it’s just American idiom but the straight sided pan we call a sauté pan is NOT optimized to sauté. Definitely agree either skillet shape (lyonnaise or rounded) is preferable for that use.

Having said that, as a home cook making the same dish for many people and with a deep seated love of braising I find the inappropriately named sauté pan a very useful thing to have around the kitchen. If I were making one portion dishes to order in a restaurant I’d probably feel very differently about it.

And to make it more confusing, there is also a sauteuse (wide and shallow straight sided pan, usually with a handle on one side and loop on the other...a great pan to make a 'saute') and a sautoir (slope sided casserole; good for sauces since a whisk fits in the corners)

 

[aboynamedsuita]

And to make it more confusing, there is also a sauteuse (wide and shallow straight sided pan, usually with a handle on one side and loop on the other...a great pan to make a 'saute') and a sautoir (slope sided casserole; good for sauces since a whisk fits in the corners)

I have the latter which Demeryere calls a conical saucier. Kinda like a saucepan but with sloped sides and the clad construction. It’s a piece I would not want to be without.