Gregmega
Senior Member
Is anyone shifting their strategy around bst given the new 600$ flag in place? In these conditions even losing money on a sale can create a taxable event. Hire an accountant? File receipts? Thoughts?
Taxes vs Hobbyists
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DrD23
Well-Known Member
timely post, I just received funds via G&S from a buyer and PayPal has me in this never ending loophole asking for tax information. So even just receiving the funds from them has become kind of a PITA
Do you think people will do more trades rather than outright sales to get around this but still try new knives?
If you loose money on a sale it’s not taxed as income. I keep a simple spreadsheet with everything I buy and everything I sell with dates, sources, buyers, etc. the gains on any sale are considered income and taxed. Sadly it’s not in aggregate, but you should only be paying taxes on the profits at the end of the year. They’ll just ask you how much of those sales were gains and you’ll report the number. If they audit (unlikely) you can use a spreadsheet and that’ll likely satisfy the auditors. If not then you can pull matching credit card, PayPal, bank statements to amounts and dates and that’ll definitely do it.
Minor pain, but not the end of the world to me. Quite frankly in another hobby of mine it seems to have dramatically slowed flipping of hard to get stuff and seems like a benefit
Source - talked to multiple accountants about this. Only change I’ve made is keeping more diligent track of everything.
Minor pain, but not the end of the world to me. Quite frankly in another hobby of mine it seems to have dramatically slowed flipping of hard to get stuff and seems like a benefit
Source - talked to multiple accountants about this. Only change I’ve made is keeping more diligent track of everything.
More tax man in our lives. Neat.
Does anyone know if you use F&F does that bypass the flag?
I also wonder if it will slow down some of KKF's pseudo-vendors.
Does anyone know if you use F&F does that bypass the flag?
I also wonder if it will slow down some of KKF's pseudo-vendors.
i don't accept paypal for hobbies anymore, period. so far, all i take now is personal payments through zelle. maybe i'll create a venmo account eventually if i need it to make a deal.
nail 1 in the coffin was this $600 1099K reporting law (breaking news: that law is being pushed back, but that almost doesn't really matter since the inconvenience has already been implemented by paypal)
nail 2 is paypal actually made it so business accounts can no longer even accept F&F. i've had a business account for a long time just to have a custom 'vanity' name and for a little extra online privacy in hobby trades. i haven't accepted a payment since they made this change.
nail 1 in the coffin was this $600 1099K reporting law (breaking news: that law is being pushed back, but that almost doesn't really matter since the inconvenience has already been implemented by paypal)
nail 2 is paypal actually made it so business accounts can no longer even accept F&F. i've had a business account for a long time just to have a custom 'vanity' name and for a little extra online privacy in hobby trades. i haven't accepted a payment since they made this change.
good question. yes, it does. unfortunately, sometimes people still accidentally pay G&S even if they meant to pay F&F. imo this is partially due to subtly dark patterns and inconsistent/changing UX.
also, you don't get a counter that shows how close you are to the $600 limit. afaik it's also not stated if refunded transactions still count towards that limit, but anecdotally it appears to be the case. so it's really easy to get reported after a couple people accidentally pay G&S even if you refund them.
The IRS cancelled this nonsense in 2022 as of a few days ago. They are waiting for congress to fix it as everybody hates the policy.
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More tax man in our lives. Neat.
Does anyone know if you use F&F does that bypass the flag?
I also wonder if it will slow down some of KKF's pseudo-vendors.
F&F is acceptable if the buyer trusts the seller
As a buyer, how many sellers
would trust me
as a buyer to send $$ AFTER KNIFE IS RECEIVED?
Afraid I don't get the second part...?
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As a buyer when using F&F I am at risk of a scam w/o recourse ….. So I am placing trust in the seller (Ok if I know them) …
But let’s flip it, send me the knife and trust me to pay.
Not sure many sellers would accept that business model.
For sure, F&F requires two-way trust.
any hobbyist deal requires trust, period.
where i come from, it's customary to pay F&F (or equiv... so maybe zelle now, maybe usps postal money order back in the day) before the seller sends the item.
where i come from, it's customary to pay F&F (or equiv... so maybe zelle now, maybe usps postal money order back in the day) before the seller sends the item.
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Yeah every hobby deal I have been doing for the past 5 years(besides on here) has been FF/zelle....pocket knives, audio equipment, watches. It's kind of established. Was kind of shocked with the G&S requirement when I first started selling here.
A good way protection is to always offer/ask for timestamps so you know an account is not compromised. That lets you know the account isn't hacked and the seller has the item. Then the rest is all on reputation. On reddits knife swap, they allow paypal FF/zelle/venmo after a certain amount of transactions have taken place which is a good system.
@Jeff it's not my preferred system, but for people with established history, I have shipped out, and they have sent FF only after having proof that the item was mailed.
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Seems like all the trust is by the buyer. I see no additional risk to a seller. Do you?
The only one who can get burned on a F&F transaction is the buyer.
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The risk to the seller is their reputation...in small circles like these hobbies that's a lot. Not many established individuals are going to risk never being able to buy/sell again for scamming someone out of a few hundreds bucks on a knife. Also, you can report the individual to paypal, and they can ban their account...and sometimes you do get 1 freebee chargeback on FF if you have been scammed
that G&S provides true, fair protection is a fantasy.
with G&S (or equiv), it can be unpredictable who they side with.
they may erroneously side with a buyer if the buyer lies and claims the item was never sent, the item was not as described, etc.
or they may erroneously side with the seller if the seller sends an empty box (or a brick) and attaches that tracking number to the transaction.
with G&S (or equiv), it can be unpredictable who they side with.
they may erroneously side with a buyer if the buyer lies and claims the item was never sent, the item was not as described, etc.
or they may erroneously side with the seller if the seller sends an empty box (or a brick) and attaches that tracking number to the transaction.
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This is true. I have been screwed over with goods and services before a few times. Once, they did not protect me as a buyer, and once as a seller. It's all up to however the person at paypal that is reviewing your claim is feeling that day.
For example, I sold a watch on reddit with described scratches in the listing, and close up pictures of them. The person made a claim that the watch was not in new condition to paypal, and they refunded them....this is literally after I showed paypal the listing where I said it was used and had scratches....sometimes they are just unbelievable.
For example, I sold a watch on reddit with described scratches in the listing, and close up pictures of them. The person made a claim that the watch was not in new condition to paypal, and they refunded them....this is literally after I showed paypal the listing where I said it was used and had scratches....sometimes they are just unbelievable.
i'd rather not do deals with people i don't trust at all in some capacity.
if it's only like a $100 deal, i'm more willing to take a risk, but generally i would prefer to deal with people who have a reputation.
and from my perspective, G&S opens up the seller to scammers as i described in my previous post.
if it's only like a $100 deal, i'm more willing to take a risk, but generally i would prefer to deal with people who have a reputation.
and from my perspective, G&S opens up the seller to scammers as i described in my previous post.
The problem with your scenario is not just the trust, but also the human nature of changing ones mind or buyer's remorse. These things are real. It is much more likely for a buyer to get the knife, decide they don't like it or something else comes in and funds become tight, so they justify that as long as they send the knife back no one is hurt. In a way as long as the buyer pays for shipping both ways, it is ok from the financial point of view, but is a hassle for the seller.
Deals used to be made all the time before paypal and in general it is accepted that money is sent first and the item is received later.
bahamaroot
Idiot Savant
Scammers are gonna scam....period.
Gregmega
Senior Member
I won’t use PayPal in my businesses simply because of the scamming going on w/ G&S, I.e. guy buys goods, buyer’s girlfriend gets mad for loose spending, buyer makes a chargeback, I’m S.O.L. That was one lesson I got from Jon when we were setting up DH early on. There’s always risk on both sides in any anon tx.
As for here, I’ve been really lucky that most the members I’ve dealt with ‘know me’ or vice versa. If there’s any questions I’m happy to do timestamp/facetime/go live etc. I don’t recall who’s been saying it lately in bst, but the ‘discount for alternative payment’ method is a real stroke of elegant genius. Anything to keep big tech et al's hands out of my pocket.
As for here, I’ve been really lucky that most the members I’ve dealt with ‘know me’ or vice versa. If there’s any questions I’m happy to do timestamp/facetime/go live etc. I don’t recall who’s been saying it lately in bst, but the ‘discount for alternative payment’ method is a real stroke of elegant genius. Anything to keep big tech et al's hands out of my pocket.
BillHanna
Gotta get ready for ARM
Which nonpaypal service seems to be the best?
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Just in general it's worth considering a tax accountant and holding onto all of your receipts IMO.
Gregmega
Senior Member
I like Zelle and Venmo.
Scammers can be sitting there as trusted on a site for years sometimes. Then for one reason or another they decided to come up with a sob story sell a bunch of rare items to people using PP F&F then just disappear nothing ever sent. Seen it happen. Also even if you trust a seller and they pay for postal insurance the buyer may get burned for a lot of money if the item is stolen by postal employees in transit yet box still arrives at your door. Seen it happen too. Don't use FF anymore unless it is for a small amount I am willing to loose or the seller wants to wait and get paid after I got the item.
How is that the sellers fault? Why should the seller getting burned?
He did everything right. It's the buyers responsibilty to check if the box isn't empty upon arrival and inform the postman, office about it then the seller makes an insurance claim. If it gets settled the buyer will get his money back, may take some months though. Should the insurance claim get denied and the buyer did everything right there is still the possibility to split the damage.
Most scammers I have seen on here which were still very very rare cases were accounts getting hacked. Trying to sell stuff for prices too good to be true. The buyers being greedy and trying to get the stuff without asking for additional info or photos and losing the money. I once encountered such a case, directly reported the account and tried to hold the scammer in a convo. Sadly someone still fell for it.
On other sites, forums, it's a given that you use F&F or bank transfer.
I rather be naive and trust buyers and sellers here, mostly doing F&F than live in a world where around every corner there is a boogyman.
Personally I think it also speaks to the character of the poster. He either fell for something like that or there is luring something deep within.
Never said it was the sellers fault, but either the seller sent a $2000 empty box or someone in the postal service thought they were stealing a gun and stole an expensive stone from a guy I know on another forum. Postal service denied claim and seller wouldn't help him out either. So no stone and no money. We also had people with accounts that were active for years. Then they suddenly had medical emergencies or were selling a rare stone you were looking for and to help them out and /or find that rarity a few people would send them money FF and never hear from them again. I even had someone try it on me. Fortunately I had seen the stone before and knew the owner. Asked him if he sold it and he said nope still had it the guy is a scammer. I prefer and love ff, but too many scammers for my liking out there.
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