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big_adventure said:
Much less than I'd expect really. I was cutting carrots into slices to make matchsticks, holding them vertical and push cutting down, and it really didnt wedge. I'll still thin it tomorrow.
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Do what you must ofcourse, just trying to point out that numbers and measurements are all good and all and give you a baseline of sorts. Just don't disregard how it actually cuts. At the end of the day this is why you got it, to try for yourself how it cuts.
 
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Barmoley said:
Do what you must ofcourse, just trying to point out that numbers and measurements are all good and all and gives you a baseline of sorts. Just don't disregard how it actually cuts. At the end of the day this is why you got it, to try for yourself how it cuts.
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The truth!
 
nakiriknaifuwaifu said:
A smile (or upswing as you say) on the back 1/2 cm makes gyutos (especially tall ones with lots of belly) easier to work with. In particular, there's no abrupt stop at the flat spot of the heel when you're push cutting and using the belly of the knife.
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A while ago I was trying out a knife for the first time, it had quite a prominent heel with no upswing. I dragged a big scratch across the board on a pull cut. Nothing to do with my poor technique, of course.
 
Alright, it's "thin ma Denka" time.

I almost kind of feel bad for doing this - the knife really, truly is an excellent cutter straight out of the box, and it both sticks and wedges much less than I would think given the thickness above the edge and the finishes. Now, it's NOT as good at any of those things as the Togashi honyaki which currently occupies my "favorite cutting tool" slot. But then, that knife is as close to perfection as I have experienced, so coming up short there isn't a bad reference.

1615813460618.png


Relevant info above on the blades. I won't include every detail in my file, but the one missing one there that is pretty salient (certainly for the weight) is that the honyaki has an ebony handle, which explains the weight difference and the massive balance point difference. It's just that "handle" is like 11 more columns to the right...
 
big_adventure said:
Alright, it's "thin ma Denka" time.

I almost kind of feel bad for doing this - the knife really, truly is an excellent cutter straight out of the box, and it both sticks and wedges much less than I would think given the thickness above the edge and the finishes. Now, it's NOT as good at any of those things as the Togashi honyaki which currently occupies my "favorite cutting tool" slot. But then, that knife is as close to perfection as I have experienced, so coming up short there isn't a bad reference.

View attachment 118359

Relevant info above on the blades. I won't include every detail in my file, but the one missing one there that is pretty salient (certainly for the weight) is that the honyaki has an ebony handle, which explains the weight difference and the massive balance point difference. It's just that "handle" is like 11 more columns to the right...
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I hope we’ll get some nice ’before/after’ pics! 🤩
 
Carl Kotte said:
I hope we’ll get some nice ’before/after’ pics! 🤩
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I'll post them in a bit. I just finished thinning and sharpening (i oopsied the edge with 60 grit and needed to redo it - at least in my mind). The knife is down to a svelte 164g, we're down to 1.3mm 1cm up from the edge and the flat bevel and hard shoulders are now a convex curve. I need to do some finishing eventually, but an hour and a half on the stones and on the paper is enough for today.
 
big_adventure said:
View attachment 118359
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Typical TF thickness behind edge, thanks for that, in line with what I discuss into an upcoming thread.

Also typical: what I call the lozenge grind. Mind you, most of the time, it's a rather deformed lozenge with one side ground flatter.

With these typical specs behind the edge (10mm), and adding that typical grind, I'll be very surprised that the knife doesn't wedge in anything dense enough and taller than say 10-15mm. Most thinning of these I see people will work with the "wide" bevel and behind edge. I would advise to attack directly at the shoulders and convex down - or at least push them up a good 5-10mm to make it a decent wide bevel. Of course, pull cutters/mostly tip workers might be spared of some of it.
 
If you look at the before shot, it might be clear but it was very much what I think you mean by lozenge - hard shoulders, one side with a much wider angle and thus thicker from the center. Very sharp shoulders. It's not that now. :)
 
tcmx3 said:
add up how much time you spent on that, multiply it by whatever your effectively hourly rate at work is (dont forget to add in health care and ira matching if youre fte) and send TF a bill lmao
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I would expect him to just stamp "wabi-sabi" on the bill and mail it back. Which would be awesome and I'd frame a copy and sell the other on ebay.
 
big_adventure said:
If you look at the before shot, it might be clear but it was very much what I think you mean by lozenge - hard shoulders, one side with a much wider angle and thus thicker from the center. Very sharp shoulders. It's not that now. :)
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Oh yeah, lozenge alright it was pretty clear. Good job thinning it but suspect the shoulders will still do their worse, and sure still a bit thick behind the edge too. Nothing you can’t improve with removing more KU. 😜

nakiriknaifuwaifu said:
Haven't you heathens ever heard of taping up the tables of your knives before thinning to prevent KU loss???

:angiefavorite:
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Hmmm not in the way I will work a TF, and not of my experience so far all around. Been there. Either the blade road is cut clear and easy to follow, either it’s not and you’ll verse over the tape. One or more of three things happen from there : 1- tape can’t prevent some damage done anyhow 2-tape residue will pollute the stone surface slowing you down considerably cleaning it out 3- and at this stage I for one won’t go into cleaning drying and reapplying tape.

IME... I can see some miraculous occasions where it might work well, or extra care with a TF to follow the wide bevel for example - in which case no need for tape as much as maintaining extra care. Also the tape works well when focusing only behind the edge, useless when pushing up a shinogi or convexing sharp shoulders for obvious reason.

Show us the grind, show us the grind! :wantfood:
 
ModRQC said:
Oh yeah, lozenge alright it was pretty clear. Good job thinning it but suspect the shoulders will still do their worse, and sure still a bit thick behind the edge too. Nothing you can’t improve with removing more KU. 😜



Hmmm not in the way I will work a TF, and not of my experience so far all around. Been there. Either the blade road is cut clear and easy to follow, either it’s not and you’ll verse over the tape. One or more of three things happen from there : 1- tape can’t prevent some damage done anyhow 2-tape residue will pollute the stone surface slowing you down considerably cleaning it out 3- and at this stage I for one won’t go into cleaning drying and reapplying tape.

IME... I can see some miraculous occasions where it might work well, or extra care with a TF to follow the wide bevel for example - in which case no need for tape as much as maintaining extra care. Also the tape works well when focusing only behind the edge, useless when pushing up a shinogi or convexing sharp shoulders for obvious reason.

Show us the grind, show us the grind! :wantfood:
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Moreover, and without talking in place of @big_adventure, this type of versing over from mid to tip is good practice on thicker knives. To do willingly I mean : did it on Shi.Han and Mabs alike. Like how some Makers like Maz introduce some on purpose but the best work is doing even more! 😉

KU/Nash/Tsuch down!
 
Granted, it's been a few years since I last bought a knife from them, and none of those were Denkas, but have the people at TF changed the way these are ground? When I hear "sharp shoulders" and "flat bevels" OOTB it's pretty much polar oposites of the Nashijis and Maboroshis I bought from them. Killer convex grinds, the real deal, not a sharp turn, let alone sharp corner in the geometry in sight. Not just a rounded shoulder atop a flat bevel that many pass off as convex grinds.
 
Bear said:
Whats the secret, I hate doing that, gums up my stones and rolls up and can't hit what needs it the most
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The point isn't to cover everything but the bladeroad, because you'll probably be raising the shinogi/tilting around to convex the kireha.

I cut a stencil in the shape of my edge and place the tape stencil around 1cm above where I want my new thinned shinogi line to end.

Something like this. The goal isn't to avoid KU wear entirely, but to avoid the spots way high up on the table that might incidentally touch the abrasive when thinning. Also sandpaper doesn't clog too much.

This isn't to knock @big_adventure at all - my denka has less KU than his by far lol

thinned Denka.jpg
 
nakiriknaifuwaifu said:
The point isn't to cover everything but the bladeroad, because you'll probably be raising the shinogi/tilting around to convex the kireha.

I cut a stencil in the shape of my edge and place the tape stencil around 1cm above where I want my new thinned shinogi line to end.

Something like this. The goal isn't to avoid KU wear entirely, but to avoid the spots way high up on the table that might incidentally touch the abrasive when thinning. Also sandpaper doesn't clog too much. View attachment 118450
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I like the stencil idea, I've tried taping before but it just doesn't work for me, I always end up going freehand

The before
web.jpg


The after
web.jpg
 
nakiriknaifuwaifu said:
The point isn't to cover everything but the bladeroad, because you'll probably be raising the shinogi/tilting around to convex the kireha.

I cut a stencil in the shape of my edge and place the tape stencil around 1cm above where I want my new thinned shinogi line to end.

Something like this. The goal isn't to avoid KU wear entirely, but to avoid the spots way high up on the table that might incidentally touch the abrasive when thinning. Also sandpaper doesn't clog too much.

This isn't to knock @big_adventure at all - my denka has less KU than his by far lol

View attachment 118450
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Added tip work too, I like it!

Care to send a choil shot this way? I remember your thread not the choil. Remember I thought you had done good work on it though.
 
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