the Sabatier appreciation thread

[Heckel7302]

Estate sale $2 pick up. Rusted and bent!
View attachment 263583

View attachment 263584

I know next to nothing of the Sab history over time. My main experience is from the mandatory kit I bought for culinary school in NYC, late 1980's. Bent rusty shown next to the one knife I kept from school, a very overused and underappreciated filet knife.

View attachment 263585

For a guy that can sharpen, repair tipped knives, and thin, but no experience with full on restoration, where to start? Mostly, I've no experience with fixing a bend. Not worried about the old filet - I can fix the birds beak and I like the patina.

For the rust, sandpaper progression would be my vote. I usually start with bench stones to get geometry where I want it, then pretty it up with sandpaper.

For the bend, a straightening stick is ideal, like this

https://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/threads/straightening-stick.65063/
Easy enough to make your own if you have the right power tools.

 

[cotedupy]

Estate sale $2 pick up. Rusted and bent!
View attachment 263583

View attachment 263584

I know next to nothing of the Sab history over time. My main experience is from the mandatory kit I bought for culinary school in NYC, late 1980's. Bent rusty shown next to the one knife I kept from school, a very overused and underappreciated filet knife.

View attachment 263585

For a guy that can sharpen, repair tipped knives, and thin, but no experience with full on restoration, where to start? Mostly, I've no experience with fixing a bend. Not worried about the old filet - I can fix the birds beak and I like the patina.

For the rust, sandpaper progression would be my vote. I usually start with bench stones to get geometry where I want it, then pretty it up with sandpaper.

For the bend, a straightening stick is ideal, like this

https://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/threads/straightening-stick.65063/
Easy enough to make your own if you have the right power tools.

Trying to straighten monosteel blades like that old Sab is going to be extremely tricky, or probably impossible, to do with a straightening stick while cold (ime).

You have to do something more along these lines; heating the blade to quite close to the temperature of the temper, whilst bending it back the same amount in the other direction...

https://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/threads/an-interesting-sabatier-restoration-wip.65432/

 

[Just a DK]

My wife only uses these. Curious if anyone of this thread has experience with the new 200 series with the Swedish steel? does it still feel like a Sab? any F&F complaints?

Only seen pics of them and have thought of getting one for her, but it kinda looks like a frenched up MTH-80.

 

[Benuser]

My wife only uses these. Curious if anyone of this thread has experience with the new 200 series with the Swedish steel? does it still feel like a Sab? any F&F complaints?

Five years ago I got their 25cm chef's. Remarkably thin and light, 160g, without being a laser. Still a good food release thanks to the slight convexity of the right face. Can even be improved as I do with all Sabs by giving it a slightly asymmetric edge. Slightly forward balance. Probably thought with a great Nogent in mind, but with a spear point tip. Which New Sabatier?
The 18cm chef's I recently got is a very different animal. Same weight (!), balance point at the first rivet, twice as thick. As if it was made for a careless home user.
I could write about the first one F&F were at least on par with the Misono. It even came with an excellent factory edge. Quite remarkable, as K-Sabs are not exactly known for their consistency and QC. Since, I know about bents and warps with this series as we are too familiar with. The well-known Thiers lottery. Grinding still great, edge horrible.
Steel, 14C28N at 60+Rc, is remarkable. Called it before AEB-L on steroids. Equally finely grained, but lacking the somewhat buttery feeling. Feels and sharpens like an excellent carbon.

 

[Jovidah]

My 200 wasn't nail flexing, but not that far from it. Still clearly in that thin, light and laserish category... but... with quite a bit of continuous curve to the profile. It's one of those knives that really pushes you to rockchopping, without having excessive curve or belly like a Wüsthof.
Mine is 190 gr and balances right at the heel. @Benuser was your old 25 cm model one with ebony handles or with G10? Because I can't really see where mine has gained 30 grams.

Similar lottery problem; the first one I got was warped. But they didn't make a fuss and the second one was straight as an arrow.

 

[Benuser]

My 200 wasn't nail flexing, but not that far from it. Still clearly in that thin, light and laserish category... but... with quite a bit of continuous curve to the profile. It's one of those knives that really pushes you to rockchopping, without having excessive curve or belly like a Wüsthof.
Mine is 190 gr and balances right at the heel. @Benuser was your old 25 cm model one with ebony handles or with G10? Because I can't really see where mine has gained 30 grams.

Similar lottery problem; the first one I got was warped. But they didn't make a fuss and the second one was straight as an arrow.

Mine is G10. Noticed spine and tang of my new 18cm are substantially thicker than with old 25cm.

 

[Jovidah]

It's possible they moved to thicker stock to counter the warping problems. I noticed Herder also uses a thicker stock on the 23 cm K Chef than on the 18 cm K5.

 

[Just a DK]

Five years ago I got their 25cm chef's. Remarkably thin and light, 160g, without being a laser. Still a good food release thanks to the slight convexity of the right face. Can even be improved as I do with all Sabs by giving it a slightly asymmetric edge. Slightly forward balance. Probably thought with a great Nogent in mind, but with a spear point tip. Which New Sabatier?
The 18cm chef's I recently got is a very different animal. Same weight (!), balance point at the first rivet, twice as thick. As if it was made for a careless home user.
I could write about the first one F&F were at least on par with the Misono. It even came with an excellent factory edge. Quite remarkable, as K-Sabs are not exactly known for their consistency and QC. Since, I know about bents and warps with this series as we are too familiar with. The well-known Thiers lottery. Grinding still great, edge horrible.
Steel, 14C28N at 60+Rc, is remarkable. Called it before AEB-L on steroids. Equally finely grained, but lacking the somewhat buttery feeling. Feels and sharpens like an excellent carbon.

Thank you for the insights. Definitely thought the steel was cool. On strata in the US, the 180cm seems to be lighter, but interesting that the one you got was heavier. Makes me hesitant to buy one from internet.

Pic with the comparison of the NOS is definately helpful. Thanks!

 

[zizirex]

After a long time of grinding during my off time, I finally finish grinding with one of the knife.
Slight convex almost a bit hollow on the Hira or face.

Here are some test cut with edge off the best grinder.



Just need a handle and fit and finish

 

[cotedupy]

Not gonna lie; I've always had something of a soft spot for Sabs, but it's only been this year that I've realised just how good they can be (or perhaps - realised how to make them that good). I've used little else apart from these three old stainless Sabs in the last six months, and frankly - they're every bit as good as any of the fanciest Japanese knives I've used or own. Bevel geometry is everything.

300 x 58, 215 x 48, 180 x 36mm.

I'd always fancied a Nogent though, so the other day I bit the bullet and bought myself one of the few NOS ones that K Sabatier still have -11". Cos we're not here to f*** spiders mate.

What follows is part review, part WIP on the mods I did today...

---

Christ alive is it big!

285 x 60, 7.5mm out of the ferrule, and a cool 399g (remember that's not even full tang). We're in proper 'lobster splitter' territory here:

Really lovely wood for the handle:

And does exceptionally well if posing for a Tony-Bourdain-on-the-cover-of-Kitchen-Confidential vibe:

Let's look at some negatives though... the bevel leading into the edge is just weird. Wildly fat, and with a big burr on it:

Because the whole thing's been done on the same belt:

Including an an attempt to 'correct' the fingerguard, which has just ended up burning the steel:

And W T F is this profile about?! I mean honestly...

[TBC]

 

[cotedupy]

It's not the best f&f whatever way you spin it tbh.

I however was absolutely thrilled. Because that's exactly why we like old Sabs - to try to fulfil their potential, and make them as good as they can possibly be! Which is what I did this afternoon...

First thing was to sort that weird profile, I took about 1cm off and dropped the tip significantly. Then corrected the fingerguard properly getting rid of the burnt steel, and rounded the spine and choil:

Now the big job of trying to thin it massively and grind some actual real bevels on. This is about halfway through the process:

Polish it up a bit, sharpen, and we're good to go:

I tapered the bevel width so it's still thicker toward the heel, but this is what a knife looks like when it's really properly thin leading into the edge:

And this is how one behaves (King 800):

It was about 35g of material removal in total, so it's now: 275 x 60mm and 365g.

And I may just have a new favourite knife...

 

[Rideon66]

It's not the best f&f whatever way you spin it tbh.

I however was absolutely thrilled. Because that's exactly why we like old Sabs - to try to fulfil their potential, and make them as good as they can possibly be! Which is what I did this afternoon...

First thing was to sort that weird profile, I took about 1cm off and dropped the tip significantly. Then corrected the fingerguard properly and rounded the spine and choil:

View attachment 323819


Now the big job of trying to thin it massively and grind some actual real bevels on. This is about halfway through the process:

View attachment 323814


Polish it up a bit, sharpen, and we're good to go:

View attachment 323816


I tapered the bevel width so it's still thicker toward the heel, but this is what a knife looks like when it's really properly thin leading into the edge:

View attachment 323815


And this is how it behaves (King 800):

View attachment 323818
View attachment 323820


It was about 35g of material removal in total, it's now: 275 x 60mm and 265g.

And I may have a new favourite knife...

View attachment 323817

Hey you bought my lobster splitter. Now that’s what I’m talking about. Nice work there mate. Leave them spider be.

 

[cotedupy]

Hey you bought my lobster splitter. Now that’s what I’m talking about. Nice work there mate. Leave them spider be.

Oh yeah, I forgot we chatted about these a while back!

It certainly would've worked as a splitter in its original state, but pretty much nothing else. When I sharpened and used it before doing the mods; I could just get it to cut newspaper, and it was very irritating to try to prep a meal with.

I'm not sure I could really recommend it in good faith to anybody who didn't have a belt grinder. I did a lot of work on it, the experience was more like buying a HT-ed blank with a nice handle. Which is kinda was I was expecting (even hoping for), and probably a lot of people buying these NOS Nogents would be the same. But for a regular member of the public - I think they'd be a bit miffed. The profile was quite different to the picture shown on the website, where it was sold as an 11" Chef's Knife, and I struggle to see that. I've made it into one now, but before it was a splitter/butchery knife, imo.

But then that is what you were after, so actually - why not! There are cheaper options, but not many as cool as an old Nogent Sab, and they won't be around forever.

---

Something I would recommend wholeheartedly though is the other thing I picked up on a whim when I noticed it before checkout - their 30cm Surprise Package (they also do 60cm and 100cm versions). It cost 45 euro and you get at least two knives with a combined edge length of 30cm. Though I actually received three knives with a combined edge length of a little over 40cm.

100mm Nogent Petty, again with rather nice wood for the handle:

100mm old carbon K Sab petty with plastic handle:

205mm newer inox K Sab Chef's with wood handle:

Which I thought was pretty decent for 45e, and it felt like someone had picked them specifically to go nicely with the big knife I bought. Obviously it means that I now probably have too many Sabs really, but I knew that was going to be the case, and I'll probably sell a few on the cheap or give them away.

---

Overall very happy with my experience with K Sab; I like the knives, shipped via Fedex so arrived in two days, and didn't attract the attention of the tax man.

I'd also add that I've sharpened a decent amount of new K Sab carbon and inox knives, as well as an awful lot of old Sabs. And I don't buy the line that the older steels are superior - modern K Sab knives and steels are really good, imo.

 

[Vertigo]

Oh yeah, I forgot we chatted about these a while back!

It certainly would've worked as a splitter in its original state, but pretty much nothing else. When I sharpened and used it before doing the mods; I could just get it to cut newspaper, and it was very irritating to try to prep a meal with.

I'm not sure I could really recommend it in good faith to anybody who didn't have a belt grinder. I did a lot of work on it, the experience was more like buying a HT-ed blank with a nice handle. Which is kinda was I was expecting (even hoping for), and probably a lot of people buying these NOS Nogents would be the same. But for a regular member of the public - I think they'd be a bit miffed. The profile was quite different to the picture shown on the website, where it was sold as an 11" Chef's Knife, and I struggle to see that. I've made it into one now, but before it was a splitter/butchery knife, imo.

But then that is what you were after, so actually - why not! There are cheaper options, but not many as cool as an old Nogent Sab, and they won't be around forever.

---

Something I would recommend wholeheartedly though is the other thing I picked up on a whim when I noticed it before checkout - their 30cm Surprise Package (they also do 60cm and 100cm versions). It cost 45 euro and you get at least two knives with a combined edge length of 30cm. Though I actually received three knives with a combined edge length of a little over 40cm.

100mm Nogent Petty, again with rather nice wood for the handle:
View attachment 323915


100mm old carbon K Sab petty with plastic handle:
View attachment 323916


205mm newer inox K Sab Chef's with wood handle:
View attachment 323914


Which I thought was pretty decent for 45e, and it felt like someone had picked them specifically to go nicely with the big knife I bought. Obviously it means that I now probably have too many Sabs really, but I knew that was going to be the case, and I'll probably sell a few on the cheap or give them away.

---

Overall very happy with my experience with K Sab; I like the knives, shipped via Fedex so arrived in two days, and didn't attract the attention of the tax man.

I'd also add that I've sharpened a decent amount of new K Sab carbon and inox knives, as well as an awful lot of old Sabs. And I don't buy the line that the older steels are superior - modern K Sab knives and steels are really good, imo.

Love the idea of the surprise pack! Need a "notify me" button for if they ever do it with their carbons.

All three of those look like winners, nice score!