The Santoku phenomenon

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Brad Gibson

Brad Gibson

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Hey guys,

As I know many of you will agree with me, I don't like the looks of the santoku. I know there is obviously a ton of people who disagree with me and love santokus. The reason for this thread is to try and shed some light as to why santokus are good and what purpose they serve in a kitchen. I know they could be used as a chef knife on vegetables and herbs and things but why not use a Nikiri. Next I assume they could be mediocre for cutting meats and fish but why not use a gyuto or a suji. Then I think about small tasks and small areas, I know that a fellow KKF member has told me he uses a santoku in his kitchen 99% of the time because he has a small space to work with, but why not a short gyuto or a small petty?

I want to reiterate that these questions are not personal attacks and I do not want to make anyone feel like I am belittling their knife choices. If you have seen me talk bad about a santoku in the past it is because I hate the look and think that the shape is pointless.

Please tell me why you like santokus over other shapes and what the original purpose for them was and why they began.

Thanks guys,

Brad
 
I am not a big fan of them anymore, but must confess to finding it a versatile and quite nimble allround knife for a home cook like myself some years ago.
At the time I thought they looked ok, and many of the pros on tv had them for a while.
I guess that influenced me.

Nowadays, even my wife have abandoned her Santoku for a Petty of Japanese origin.
She seems to love the new one much better.
 
They're popular, and most people don't know what a nakiri is. When I took the catcheside nakiri to work, almost everyone commented on how nice looking that Santoku was.. It was easier not to correct them. I think it has to do with the widespread availability, the lack of intimidation due to size and the lack of a point, and the fact that many celeb chefs use them. I've seen everyone from jacques pepin to Gordon Ramsay using one.
 
I find most santokus to be thick at the tip with little to no distal taper. I much prefer a 180mm gyuto or petty....

That being said, I use a mac pro santoku at home quite a bit, and rather enjoy it.
 
If Jon wants to chime in, I'd like to hear the traditional reasoning behind why the shape came about.
 
Honestly, I don't find that santoku or nakiri are very useful at all if you have space. If you don't have space, I can see why the more curved, pointed part of a gyuto would just get in the way when doing certain push-cutting jobs. As you mentioned, a petty could be used instead for that sort of thing, in general. In some of those cases, I do find myself wishing for a bit more heft and if I use a grip where my finger is on the spine, larger objects tend to bump into my finger. Mostly I just use a large gyuto with a flatish profile.
 
I prefer smaller boards that are quick to clean at home for the every day stuff. On these it is hard to stop using a santoku. They are great for smaller cutting boards. When I break out the big board for a real meal I never reach for a santoku.

I do like the looks of the watanabe and heiji 180 gyutos but can't justify the $$ to cut cinnamon toast and peanut butter sammies.

Santokus are as phenomenal as Honda civics. They get you where you're going and fit in a tight spot and that's it.
 
I've read a few different stories (legends?) on the origin of the Santoku. No telling which is correct, if any, but most seem to start with name translation which is something like "three purposes" or "three virtues." The implication is that it was intended as a single all-purpose tool for home cooks....not the best tool for any one task, but capable of several including protein and vegetable uses, largely where space is limited. If you didn't have the space, money, or skills for knives dedicated to specific tasks - the santoku geometry/form was to be your "swiss army knife".

A book I have on Japanese kitchen knives written by Hiromitsu Nozaki suggests it evolved from a kansai-style (curved tip) usuba. Interestingly, same book says the nakiri evolved from the usuba origin too. Difference being the nakiri was intended as a double bevel (though some make them single, I know) vegetable knife for home use and the santoku was meant as a do-all for light slicing, mincing, etc. for home use.

knife choices are so personal - so can't speak to why some love em, some hate em or anything in between. Comfort, convenience and effectiveness would seem to be the three criteria...just a factor of how you rank them. Personally, I do like Santoku but my habits and style lean toward a gyuto and other task specific tools if needed.
 
The japanese kids on line told me they are marketed to home cooks in japan as: "three purpose knife... meat, vegi, fish" I don't enjoy them, but I can see it being a bigger draw than deba in a tiny tokyo apt.

Edit... lol post above snuck in while I was spaced out on the phone.
 
I'm thinking its more of a fashion trend to like (and not like) santoku's.

Case in point, the movement to "lower tipped" gyuto such as a funyaki, wa kurtsuke's follow the lower tipped advantages of a santoku. In my option (and only mine), they are just a longer and sometimes skinnier santoku, are they the same? no. But they are more sankotu-ish then the run of the mill gyuto. I'm not sure why santoku's have such a negative connotation's here, perhaps someone can explain this to me?

Its all about personal preference, if they are comfortable with what they have, then who am I to question their choice of cutlery. Cause at the end of the day knives are just tools that enable us to make/cook great food.


Brad Gibson said:
I know that a fellow KKF member has told me he uses a santoku in his kitchen 99% of the time because he has a small space to work with, but why not a short gyuto or a small petty?
Click to expand...

I would say a chinese cleaver is a far better choice :D
 
I use a santoku for almost all of my cooking.

The reason is that it has a high wall good curvature from the tip to the mid and a long flat. This complements my cooking technique quite well. I am able to move quickly and efficiently. I find a Gyuto of the same size useful but the long sweet and short flat does not work as well for me.

I like using nakiri but for different tasks like match book fry cuts for example, that being said I am not as quick using my nakiri over my santoku.

Even when I was doing work in professional kitchens I found my self grabbing for my Santoku over any other knife.

But that is what is beautiful about knives, they are an item that is personal and people find preferences in some designs over others.
 
If you have space, it will never beat a gyuto.

If you are a home cook with limited space, I will argue for the benefits of the Santoku.

First, it is TALL - and anyone who likes to push-cut rapidly in chopping sessions understands why this is useful. It can do what a nakiri does (but not quite as well). I'll take a 50 inch heel over a 44 inch heel of a small gyuto any day. This is personal preference. Secondly, it is able to do some tip work unlike a nakiri. It is not a gyuto, but you are looking at compromises here.

You can stop bashing the Santoku. Obviously, its uses are limited in a professional kitchen. But in a home kitchen with limited space, it really is a quiver of one.
 
It is an all purpose mid-size knife and that is what most people that aren't fanatics about their culinary cutlery like we are want. I've used them in the past but I have so many more specialized knives now there isn't much point. I have noticed they are very popular over a wide part of Asia outside Japan too.
 
The santoku is incredibly popular with the public at large because the vast majority of them have never heard of gyuto, nakiri, petty, or any of the single bevels, and even if they had they wouldn't be willing to pay for them. That leaves them with a choice between a German style chef or a santoku. Sense most home cooks don't actually do a lot of rock chopping, they find the santoku pretty awesome. Hell, just last Christmas (before I caught my addiction from you bastiges') I was STOKED to get a Hinckels 7" santoku (WITH GRANTONS :laughat:). Remember guys, we're a statistically negligible part of the knife owning populace. As to santokus not having a pointy tip, that's what 6" utility and steak knives are for:wink:
 
Not a big fan of the ones I've used, but I believe they were all a bit too short at ~165. Seeing Micioarcs (sp) Shig in the newest purchase thread makes me want to try a longer one.
 
Hell, Takeda calls his banno bunkas, nice marketing they seem to get respect.
The only knives i throw a dirty glance at in a kitchen would be poorly maintained ones. Knives are awesome, but the most important thing in cooking is heart.
Generally speaking i would never prefer a santoku, but they can be awesome line and prep knives if you do a lot of veg based work and push cut.
 
Noodle Soup said:
It is an all purpose mid-size knife and that is what most people that aren't fanatics about their culinary cutlery like we are want. I've used them in the past but I have so many more specialized knives now there isn't much point. I have noticed they are very popular over a wide part of Asia outside Japan too.
Click to expand...

They are popular all over.All Santokus are not created equal,fr. cheap Walmart to thin edged in excellent steel.All purpose mid size is a good thing.I like forward push cuts,that's why I like cleavers.I think they are shorter versions of the more traditional Japanese drop nose Gyuto.I like Santoku's too and not the least bit shy to say it.:razz:
 
TheDispossessed said:
Hell, Takeda calls his banno bunkas, nice marketing they seem to get respect.
Click to expand...

First, I believe it's "bunka banno"

Second, don't be calling my bunka banno a santoku!:punish:
(I like to think of it as a small kiritsuke style gyuto:wink:)
 
I consider my Takeda funayuki a santoku. It's my FAVORITE santoku. ^_^ I just sold the Banno Bunka. Great little performer. It's hard not to like a knife with that kind of name.
 
I was thinking about this recently....and wondering if it was a double-bevel version of the kamagata usuba.
 
bunka bocho ("culture knife") is another name for a santoku. It's the name my wife was familiar with. Whatever you call it, it's a common, popular knife here in Japan. Take a look at the domestic sites for makers like Sakai Yusuke, for instance. Their top seller is a 180mm santoku:
http://www.sakai-ya.com/gin3/g3-3toku180.htm

And I picked up a Zakuri tosagata bocho recently, basically a thin santoku. I like it a lot, especially vegetables or when I feel like I don't have the space for my 240mm gyuto.
 
I own a santoku that came as part of an entry level Watanabe set. I've thinned the crap out of it over the years and it is my go to at home because it never gets put away. I appreciate its height and ability to work in confined spaces.
 
I like using santoku. Of course, I also absolutely love to use nakiri but I am adamant about using them only on vegetables.

As someone else mentioned previously, I like the fact that santoku have pretty high profile heights for their length. In many cases, the same 50mm or so as a 240mm gyuto. Profile height is a key factor for me when it comes to comfort with a knife. A 165mm or 180mm santoku has far greater profile height than a short gyuto, but gives me almost the same degree of usefulness *when preparing a small meal*.

I like variety. That's the other thing. Sure, I could use a chinese cleaver or a 240 gyuto for almost everything, but where's the fun in that? :)

If I'm going to use a nakiri for veggies, deba for fileting fish, yanagiba for slicing fish, then why not use a santoku for small meals? :)
 
A while go I bought a Henkel's Twin Cermax made of M66 (ZDP-189) steel. I bought it for the steel, never owned a ZDP-189 knife and I was curious. It also was on sale for a ridiculously low price of around $70.

The steel is very hard to deburr. I viewed Jon Broida's video on one-sided microbevels. It was a revelation. It's supposed to strengthen the edge and quickly deburr. Given the hardness of the steel (RC 66) I wasn't really worried about the strength of edge but I was finally able to remove the burr, and quickly. The knife will take a very fine edge and will keep it for a long time now that deburring is easy.

I like the flat edge profile for push cutting veggies, herbs, etc. I've had a Wusthof Santoku with the kullens for several years but I rarely use it. I thinned the edge and within a half hour of use the edge will roll over because of the soft steel. If you don't mind steeling every ten minutes and and going to the stones often then I guess it would be usable but, for me, that's not what I want. I want to be able to touch up with a CrO2 loaded strop occasionally and go to the stones rarely, perfect for the hard steel.

Of course it's useful only for medium to small jobs.
 
Ladies like the Santoku. That's reason enough to have one.

I've been told Rachael Ray used a Wusthof Santoku early on the Food Network. (Awkward, dull and fat, the knife is not much to look at either...) Inexplicably, American housewives wanted to be "groovy" and it became a popular style here. I've used the Wustie and Shun versions and they're among the few knives that I dislike.

There are better examples of course and I've seen a couple pictured here lately that would be welcome at my house.

Regards,

Dave
 
I have a Yamawaku one which has a distal taper and takes a great edge and was inexpensive.To my mind it is great for home when i am only cooking for a few people where i just dont need the size of a 240 gyuto.At work it was really only used during service and particularly if i was on larder.I think for the home cook it is a very versatile knife hence why they sell so well.I also have a Zanetsu ZDP189 which i bought to try the steel but I find it a bit too small.
 
I also still use the Watanabe santoku from the set he sold. Clearly, if you need to cut large amounts of stuff, a larger knife is better, but for a person like me who often cooks just for myself, that is a very practical knife. It also is easier for those of us with limited skills: because it is higher, I find it easier to guide it along my knuckles than a narrower gyuto. Maybe that's part of the success. In any case, as. Hobby cook, I use it much more than my 270 Watanabe gyuto - and I understand that the large knife could do everything the santoku does. That said, I had a few other santokus along the way, and the Watanabe is the only one I kept. He is still one of my favorite makers, even if he seems to fall out of favor a bit as other brands pop up.

Stefan
 
bkdc said:
If you have space, it will never beat a gyuto.
Click to expand...

Statements like this are often made. Or something similar such as: A gyuto will do everything a santoku can do and more.

Okay so how does a gyuto beat a santoku? What can a gyuto do, that is not possible for a santoku?

Usually the response is the gyuto is more versatile because it has a tip. A cleaver and nakiri have a tip, it's just not pointy. The santoku has a tip, but apparently its too stubby. A sujihiki has a pointy tip, but it doesn't have enough height at the heel, to give knuckle clearance. A santoku has plenty of height at the heel, but that darn tip is too stubby. A lot of the arguments for a gyuto have a heads I win, tails you lose, aspect.

If the gyuto can physically do tasks that a santoku is unable, to perform, I would like to know. While tip work might be part of the answer, that sounds more like personal preference.

Jay
 
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