Thinking of buying a gyuto 240mm...

[JeffCT]

Any recommendations?

LOCATION
What country are you in?

• US

KNIFE TYPE
What type of knife are you interested in (e.g., chefs knife, slicer, boning knife, utility knife, bread knife, paring knife, cleaver)?

• Gyuto 240mm, as a change of pace to my Wusthof Classic 8" chef knife (given years with a European blade shape, I may be more comfortable with greater curved blade)

Are you right or left handed?

• Left, strongly prefer symmetrical edge (as I'm still learning how to sharpen on stones)

Are you interested in a Western handle (e.g., classic Wusthof handle) or Japanese handle?

• Either, but have never used a Japanese handle

What length of knife (blade) are you interested in (in inches or millimeters)?

• 240mm, partly to be a little different than my 8" chef knife

Do you require a stainless knife? (Yes or no)

• No, but favor something with lower maintenance (and better edge retention with acidic food, etc.), unless strong recommendation otherwise

What is your absolute maximum budget for your knife?

• Thinking $200-ish

KNIFE USE
Do you primarily intend to use this knife at home or a professional environment?

• Home

What are the main tasks you primarily intend to use the knife for (e.g., slicing vegetables, chopping vegetables, mincing vegetables, slicing meats, cutting down poultry, breaking poultry bones, filleting fish, trimming meats, etc.)? (Please identify as many tasks as you would like.)

• All, but may not use this one on breaking poultry bones/spatchcocking, etc.

What knife, if any, are you replacing?

• Not replacing, but expect to use in rotation with my Wusthof Classic chef knife, and to a lessor extent my MAC Mighty sanduko

Do you have a particular grip that you primarily use? (Please click on this LINK for the common types of grips.)

• Pinch grip

What cutting motions do you primarily use? (Please click on this LINK for types of cutting motions and identify the two or three most common cutting motions, in order of most used to least used.)

• Slicing, push cut, rocking (less used: draw, chop, walk)

What improvements do you want from your current knife? If you are not replacing a knife, please identify as many characteristics identified below in parentheses that you would like this knife to have.)

• Sharper?

Better aesthetics (e.g., a certain type of finish; layered/Damascus or other pattern of steel; different handle color/pattern/shape/wood; better scratch resistance; better stain resistance)?

• Not a fan of the look of hammered blade

Comfort (e.g., lighter/heavier knife; better handle material; better handle shape; rounded spine/choil of the knife; improved balance)?

• n/a

Ease of Use (e.g., ability to use the knife right out of the box; smoother rock chopping, push cutting, or slicing motion; less wedging; better food release; less reactivity with food; easier to sharpen)?

• Ease to sharpen, less wedging/better food release

Edge Retention (i.e., length of time you want the edge to last without sharpening)?

• Long time works for me...

KNIFE MAINTENANCE
Do you use a bamboo, wood, rubber, or synthetic cutting board? (Yes or no.)

• Wood and PP cutting boards

Do you sharpen your own knives? (Yes or no.)

• Yes, but looking to improve

If not, are you interested in learning how to sharpen your knives? (Yes or no.)

Are you interested in purchasing sharpening products for your knives? (Yes or no.)

• Yes, if needed (have 300, 1000, 6000 grit stones, plus a course/fine diamond plate)

SPECIAL REQUESTS/COMMENTS

• Curious about Aogami Super. Happy with a newly bought Tojiro DP VG 10 150mm petty knife, so seriously thinking of just going with their gyuto?

 

[HansCaravan]

MAC MBK-95, usually ~$185 USD. Great knife to transition from the world of Western knives to Eastern. Thinner, lighter, better edge retention and traditional handle with full tang and dual scales.

 

[blokey]

https://www.japaneseknifeimports.com/collections/en/products/en-240mm-ginsanko-wa-gyuto

 

[Benuser]

The Tojiro DP are right-biased: flatter left side, convex right side. Apart from the edge being off-centered to the left, which could be addressed, expect poor food release with the produce sticking to the left side.
Consider blades with in inverted geometry for left-handers: convex left side, flatter right side, edge off-centered to the right. Masahiro and Misono have them in stock.

 

[JeffCT]

Bummer on the DP...guess I need to get a new petty knife as well! Didn't see that in the various descriptions.

 

[stringer]

Bummer on the DP...guess I need to get a new petty knife as well! Didn't see that in the various descriptions.

Probably doesn't matter as much for a petty as a gyuto unless you planning on doing lots of tournè

 

[HumbleHomeCook]

https://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/threads/247mm-lefty-bias-aeb-l-gyuto.59585/#post-912428
Done.

 

[HumbleHomeCook]

If the knife sells and you're still interested, send @MSicardCutlery a message. He's great to work with!

 

[Benuser]

Bummer on the DP...guess I need to get a new petty knife as well! Didn't see that in the various descriptions.

A lot of retailers sell the most asymmetric blades as ambidextrous.
Quite some makers put a symmetric edge on an asymmetric blade, calling it 50/50. Unless it's a laser, where it doesn't matter that much, problems like wedging and steering appear only after a few sharpenings. The poor food release is likely to occur immediately, though.

 

[JeffCT]

Are all Japanese blades biased? Where can I confirm that?

 

[JeffCT]

Probably doesn't matter as much for a petty as a gyuto unless you planning on doing lots of tournè

So much for tourne Tuesdays!

 

[Benuser]

Are all Japanese blades biased? Where can I confirm that?

https://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/threads/asymmetry-–-the-real-deal.5656/
https://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/threads/a-basic-explanation-of-asymmetry.33951/
You may find the concept of asymmetric blades with all vintage European knives since Jean Auguste Sabatier in the 1880s and that has been copied by makers in Thiers, Solingen and Sheffield.
The idea is making food release easier with the convex side, and making thin slices somewhat easier as well with the flatter side. The left side is basically flat but ends with a curve to join the the edge, while the right side forms one continuous arc.
When the Japanese started to make Western, double-bevelled knives they took the Sab as an example, increased the effect and optimised it for right-handers by off-centering the edge to the left and skipping or reducing the final curve on the left side. They could do so because left-handers were ignored in their culture.

 

[Nemo]

Are all Japanese blades biased? Where can I confirm that?

Basically, yes.

https://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/threads/a-basic-explanation-of-asymmetry.33951/
Almost all are assymetric above the edge. Some are ground symmetrically at the edge, some are not.

 

[JeffCT]

Very informative. Perhaps this is why food seems to stick to my knives all this time! Are MAC knives (given stamped) also asymmetrical?

 

[HansCaravan]

I can take photos of my MBK-95 when I get home to verify this, but I do not believe they (MAC) have any asymmetry

 

[HumbleHomeCook]

My ginsan Tsunehisa's are all symmetrical.

 

[superworrier]

Are all Japanese blades biased? Where can I confirm that?

No. There are definitely a lot of symmetrically ground knives out there. (Myojin, Yoshikane, etc)

 

[HansCaravan]

Yup, 50/50 grind on this. Hopefully the bevel shows through OK in the light.

 

[Nemo]

Just to reiterate: a symmetrical edge grind is not the same as a symmetrical knife grind.

 

[HansCaravan]

Good point @Nemo!

OP- my MAC is flat ground FWIW, so ambidextrous.

 

[HansCaravan]

Nevermind, I spoke too soon... Look at this choil shot. There's a slight convexity towards the right of the spine. Caveat empter to you

 

[HumbleHomeCook]

My MAC Pro petty has a subtle right bias.

 

[Benuser]

Strict symmetry, with both sides being each other's mirror image, is likely to wedge in hard food. That's the idea behind the more or less subtle differences between both sides.

 

[JeffCT]

Strict symmetry, with both sides being each other's mirror image, is likely to wedge in hard food. That's the idea behind the more or less subtle differences between both sides.

That occurred to me thinking through it, and sticking would seem similar if symmetrical vs. using a right handed blade (if each are essentially flat on the left). Found a few left handed versions from brands noted previously here; one in carbon seems interesting. Now need to look into carbon a bit more.

 

[Benuser]

That occurred to me thinking through it, and sticking would seem similar if symmetrical vs. using a right handed blade (if each are essentially flat on the left). Found a few left handed versions from brands noted previously here; one in carbon seems interesting. Now need to look into carbon a bit more.

A left-handed Masahiro VC is easily available, and has an excellent steel.
The Misono Swedish is at another price point, with a splendid F&F, with the softer steel though. Expect better edge retention and more bite with the Masahiro, even more refinement with the Misono. Both sharpen very easily.
If you were to consider the 210mm be aware of the relative narrowness of the Misono, which isn't that comfortable when pinch-gripping. Not so with the 240 though.
The Misono comes with a spear-like tip, very elegant but vulnerable; the Masahiro with a traditional low tip, much more sturdy. In a quite home setting it won't matter that much, but in a busy pro environment expect frequent tip repairs with the Misono.

 

[madmotts]

I did touch up on MAC santoku that was so right biased it looked almost flat on the backside. Pretty sure it was stock edge (could be wrong). Can’t remember which model

 

[Benuser]

A left-handed Masahiro VC is easily available, and has an excellent steel.
The Misono Swedish is at another price point, with a splendid F&F, with the softer steel though. Expect better edge retention and more bite with the Masahiro, even more refinement with the Misono. Both sharpen very easily.
If you were to consider the 210mm be aware of the relative narrowness of the Misono, which isn't that comfortable when pinch-gripping. Not so with the 240 though.
The Misono comes with a spear-like tip, very elegant but vulnerable; the Masahiro with a traditional low tip, much more sturdy. In a quite home setting it won't matter that much, but in a busy pro environment expect frequent tip repairs with the Misono.

If you consider a Misono: Korin offers a free 'initial stone sharpening'. Very helpful, as the factory is very convexed. The Korin edge will make future maintenance much easier.

 

[JeffCT]

A left-handed Masahiro VC is easily available, and has an excellent steel.
The Misono Swedish is at another price point, with a splendid F&F, with the softer steel though. Expect better edge retention and more bite with the Masahiro, even more refinement with the Misono. Both sharpen very easily.
If you were to consider the 210mm be aware of the relative narrowness of the Misono, which isn't that comfortable when pinch-gripping. Not so with the 240 though.
The Misono comes with a spear-like tip, very elegant but vulnerable; the Masahiro with a traditional low tip, much more sturdy. In a quite home setting it won't matter that much, but in a busy pro environment expect frequent tip repairs with the Misono.

Ordered the Masahiro, thanks for the help.

 

[Benuser]

Ordered the Masahiro, thanks for the help.

My pleasure. Good knife, you won't regret.

 

[JeffCT]

My pleasure. Good knife, you won't regret.