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Interesting stone, odd shape in terms of pretty square. I don't know much about them but learning ha. Are those black lines in the stone? If so those are some distinguishing features to it, and maybe someone more knowledgeable can chime in. 🙃
 
Not fool proof but one of the identifiers, so very useful information.

Here is the UK slate. Do you think it's a Yellow Lake?
It's not a bad stone stone at all, but it's unremarkable in every regard. A pre-finisher for razors.
Reminds me of a roofing slate.

[url=https://flic.kr/p/2n3CuVx]


Yep, I'd be fairly certain that's the 'regular' kind of AB Salmen Yellow Lake. Your description matches, and those look like the dimensions Salmen stones were most often cut to - i.e. quite a thin 8x2 (same as my black silkstone version).

The other stone I have that belonged to my grandfather is that type, though a thicker 6x2. I suspect they're probably best as tool stones, as they're a bit too fine and slow to be really good for kitchen knives, but not quite fine enough to finish a razor well. The normal kind my granddad kept in the shed, the silkstone one in the kitchen. So he did use that one for knives, though it's not a brilliant knife stone tbh - it's a razor stone.

Visual comparison of the two for your and others' reference (both dry):

IMG-5380.jpg
 
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Man it seems like the UK has some of the prettiest stones I think anyways.

I picked up a lot of assorted stones. And this little slate(?) pocket hone came with it. Sits at a little over 3"x1.5", only 99grams. I haven't owned slate hones but it's definitely lighter than say a slate tile of same size. Feels like charcoal... And has a very high pitched ding. It looks like it was at least longer, not sure about width, as the other end is rather sloppily re-shaped. It's also stamped "V M A" on the one end. "VMA slate hones" brought up some weird results...
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While stalking this thread, and seeing a bunch of slate maybe one of you guys/gals would know.
I think by the nature of the lettering it is a synthetic.
 
I think by the nature of the lettering it is a synthetic.
Makes sense, as I've never seen a raised logo on any slates. Except some of the older razor hones, but I think those are synthetic also if not mistaken. Like I said it resembles charcoal more than say roofing or tile slate, which would make sense if synthetic.

Thanks for your input. Much appreciated.

Hah I didn't want to put my foot in my mouth about your bench stone but my first hunch was llyn of some sort which I guess would be a yellow lake. But then again not having used or owned one I figured best to not say anything.
 
Man it seems like the UK has some of the prettiest stones I think anyways.

I picked up a lot of assorted stones. And this little slate(?) pocket hone came with it. Sits at a little over 3"x1.5", only 99grams. I haven't owned slate hones but it's definitely lighter than say a slate tile of same size. Feels like charcoal... And has a very high pitched ding. It looks like it was at least longer, not sure about width, as the other end is rather sloppily re-shaped. It's also stamped "V M A" on the one end. "VMA slate hones" brought up some weird results...
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While stalking this thread, and seeing a bunch of slate maybe one of you guys/gals would know.

Ah I hadn’t clocked the raised lettering on it - as DR said it must be synthetic. Though looks an interesting one!
 
Ah I hadn’t clocked the raised lettering on it - as DR said it must be synthetic. Though looks an interesting one!
I've recently got a couple of those embossed hones, a "Celebrated” and the best name "Boss Barber".

I have just sharpened a machine blade and used one in my progression. It was quite nice to use. I need to try it out for finishing on a knife. It could be a nice travel stone?
 
[The second half of this post has been edited following a very helpful email reply from Roger at Inigo Jones Slate Works.]

Let's have a look at what I think is the only other UK stone type I have at the moment - the rather pretty aqua-coloured stone in the first post, that I said might possibly be a type of Glanrafon:

IMG-3682.jpg


Since then I managed to score myself a Glanrafon, as talked about above, and in use the stones are similar enough that they could be variations of the same, though they are a little different. On getting back to Australia I discovered a couple of interesting things: Firstly I had my USB scope again so looked at them together. And though similar, I don't believe this stone to be precisely a type of Glanrafon.

The second, perhaps more interesting, thing I discovered about this stone... was that I already had one:

IMG-5315.jpg


The smaller stone was a find on Australian ebay find in the middle of last year. At the time I asked a bit about it, but no one seemed to know what it was, and after that I didn't pay much attention to it, as I hadn't then started honing razors, and it was too hard and fine to be much use on a knife.

And I hadn't really noticed the patterns and colour on the stone as they're more noticeable when wet, and less pronounced on the smaller version. This is what they look like dry:

IMG-5329.jpg


Both stones also have a distinctive rippled pattern on one side, that looks a little like running water:

IMG-3537.jpg


A combination of hunch, and having a bit of experience with this kind of thing meant I was relatively certain that, like the Glanrafon, these stones were Welsh. There are number of historic stone quarries in a relatively small area of Snowdonia in northern wales. These were largely for slate, though the novaculite Idwal stone is from the same area and in fact displays some slate-like qualities to it, suggesting to me it was formed though metamorphosis of an original similar slate to this and the Glanrafon stone. Others from this area are the various types of Llyn Melynllyn or Yellow Lake Oilstone, the legendary and mysterious Cutler's Green, and also the Dragon's Tongue which as far as I know is the only UK natural whetstone still being produced by a commercial company.

And it was the latter who I emailed earlier today with some pictures, and were able to shed some light on the origins of this beautiful blue-green stone:

'The Greener stones come from the Nantlle Valley where there used to be several quarries operating but now all closed, one quarry was called the Dorothea quarry and that slate might have come from there.'

The Nantlle Valley (Dyffryn Nantlle) is in the west of Snowdonia National Park, set around a lake of the same name - Llyn Nantlle. What was particularly interesting about this news is that the Glanrafon quarry lies just to the north of the small village of Rhyd-Ddu, which is at one end of the Dyffryn Nantlle. So if this blue-green stone isn't actually the same exact stone as the Glanrafon, then it is at least the same kind rock, and likewise found in the immediate vicinity around Lake Nantlle. I'm going to call this stone the Llyn Nantlle.*

The Llyn Nantlle is a very hard, fine-grained slate, finishing considerably north of 10k. Like the Glanrafon it's a slow stone, thought perhaps the LN is marginally quicker, as well as being a touch finer. In terms of knives it would be too fine and hard for anything but the final finishes of a yanagiba, or deburring a coarser finish. It will not polish a bevel well.

Despite this the LN is among my very favourite stones: It's very pretty to my eye. It's rare - I only know of one other person who has this stone. And it's a superb razor finisher - right up there with the best Idwals and Charnley Forests in terms of UK razor hones.

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* As I think I pointed out before on this thread - Welsh names like this can be rather difficult for a lot of people (myself included) to pronounce properly, as it involves sounds that are not used in the English language. But if you wanna give it a go... this is how to say Llyn and Nantlle in Cymraeg.
 
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Bravo on The investigative work,
It’s evident you enjoy the mineralogical interaction of stone and steel.
If the stone you are calling Llyn Nantlle is in fact a fine grain slate, possibly from Western Europe(Wales, Ireland, Scotland). Is it reasonable to say these are from an extinct quarry or small defunct mine? Hence the rarity.

Mostly all slate hones I use are tested with a high carbon knife so that I can inspect the bevel and polish over a longer edge. This has the added benefit of feeling the stones grain structure with long sweeping strokes, also the audible feedback improves.

Agreed, it takes longer to hone the knife versus the razor.

I am increasingly loving slate hones for final stage polishing. Here I was thinking all hones had to be exorbitantly expensive.
 
If the stone you are calling Llyn Nantlle is in fact a fine grain slate, possibly from Western Europe(Wales, Ireland, Scotland). Is it reasonable to say these are from an extinct quarry or small defunct mine? Hence the rarity.

In a word... yes.

The reason I emailed Inigo Jones is that they're one of the only real commercial companies in the UK who still cut and produce whetstones (from Aberfelleni slate). And one of their directors is a guy called Roger, who I'd heard was very knowledgable about this kind of thing, he's in his mid 70s now and has worked in the Welsh slate industry for over half a century. And immediately ID-ed the stone as being from the Nantlle Valley.

There are no operational slate quarries remaining in the Nantlle valley. The Dorothea quarry for instance is now underwater, like many old quarries in the UK. The other reasonable size quarry there was called Pen-yr-Orsedd, but at one time or another there were around 15 or so others. Though the Nantlle Valley isn't big - maybe six miles long, so many of them are likely to have been nothing more than small holes in the ground that whoever owned the land dug some rock out of to build a house. If you go looking for a 'Quarry (dis.)' as marked on a UK Ordinance Survey map - 9 times out of 10 you won't find anything!

Long story short... I think the stone is likely to be from the Dorothea quarry.
 
Bravo on The investigative work,
It’s evident you enjoy the mineralogical interaction of stone and steel.
If the stone you are calling Llyn Nantlle is in fact a fine grain slate, possibly from Western Europe(Wales, Ireland, Scotland). Is it reasonable to say these are from an extinct quarry or small defunct mine? Hence the rarity.

Mostly all slate hones I use are tested with a high carbon knife so that I can inspect the bevel and polish over a longer edge. This has the added benefit of feeling the stones grain structure with long sweeping strokes, also the audible feedback improves.

Agreed, it takes longer to hone the knife versus the razor.

I am increasingly loving slate hones for final stage polishing. Here I was thinking all hones had to be exorbitantly expensive.

Definitely post some pics and thoughts of your stone when you have a mo. As I said - I think it looks likely to be a LN.
 
Definitely post some pics and thoughts of your stone when you have a mo. As I said - I think it looks likely to be a LN.
Well, after reading a lot of Cotedupy’s writings, I went on a mission to find some old honing stones. Suffice to say I went a bit overboard. However there were a few pleasant surprises such as these.
first up: an English eBay find that the seller said was from an old hoarder in north western uk around Liverpool. This was quite dirty when I put my bid in. The owner just stated unknown oil stone, so it was a gamble but at 15£ worth it. The stone was glued into a wood box and upon removal a few slivers broke off, definitely slate.I am doing a SG test this weekend. It is quite nice on a razor, silky as nothing else.
No river pattern like Cotedupy so called LN.

Next up was a open suggestion/ critique from Cotedupy, a Norton/Pike India, 2 sided stone(20$usd). Damn, the critique was spot on, hard and affordable. I used it to touch up a ZDP petty, it was too easy to refresh, so it’s got my vote.
Last up is an unknown, I believe a novaculite. Quite hard but very fine. I need to test it some more but so far it’s a great pre-finisher for knives. A steal at 30$.
 

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Well, after reading a lot of Cotedupy’s writings, I went on a mission to find some old honing stones. Suffice to say I went a bit overboard. However there were a few pleasant surprises such as these.
first up: an English eBay find that the seller said was from an old hoarder in north western uk around Liverpool. This was quite dirty when I put my bid in. The owner just stated unknown oil stone, so it was a gamble but at 15£ worth it. The stone was glued into a wood box and upon removal a few slivers broke off, definitely slate.I am doing a SG test this weekend. It is quite nice on a razor, silky as nothing else.
No river pattern like Cotedupy so called LN.

Next up was a open suggestion/ critique from Cotedupy, a Norton/Pike India, 2 sided stone(20$usd). Damn, the critique was spot on, hard and affordable. I used it to touch up a ZDP petty, it was too easy to refresh, so it’s got my vote.
Last up is an unknown, I believe a novaculite. Quite hard but very fine. I need to test it some more but so far it’s a great pre-finisher for knives. A steal at 30$.


Yep. I'm basically certain that's a Nantlle stone, especially seeing it's come from Liverpool, so bang next door to northern Wales. (I thought it would have been a little odd to find in Canada!) The thing on the sides is only really noticeable on one of mine, and the other person who has one can't see on his either. Surface-wise yours is a dead match from that pic. Can't believe I missed it on UK ebay!

I've found them to be very competent razor finishers, though quite slow. I often start with a slurry raised with something else.

Glad you liked the India combi too! Really superb stones I think :).
 
Here are another few types of UK stones acquired recently...

Firstly a very lucky score at a local auction which I've posted elsewhere already, but here for the sake of completeness is the Water of Ayr stone:

IMG-6628.jpg



Or rather in this case the Water of Ayr x Tam O'Shanter Dual Hone. The Dual Hones were combination stones produced and came in several varieties; Dalmore Yellow (coarse) x Tam O'Shanter (fine), Dalmore Blue (med) x Tam O'Shanter, and Tam O'Shanter x Water of Ayr (Extra Fine). Mine is the latter, here's the Tam side:

IMG-6629.JPG



The Water of Ayr stone is a blue-grey slate type affair, although it may not exactly be a slate, or at least only just. It came largely from two quarries: Enterkine and Meikledale, the latter being finer and characterised often by darker spots or splodges on the surface, whereas Enterkine stones seem more uniform in terms of pattern. The stones used on the Dual Hones apparently came from the Meikledale quarry.

Which makes sense because this stone is a very fine, razor-finishing stone. Not desperately hard and reminds me in feel and effect quite strongly of Thuringian stones, though it's a little quicker. Thuris are not slow stones themselves for their level, but the WoA is really quite fast. A completely superb stone, though unfortunately somewhat rare, and expensive normally.
 
Next up, one that I've mentioned above, which I believe is the only readily available natural whetstone still produced by a commercial company: the Welsh Dragon's Tongue whetstone from Inigo Jones & Co.

IMG-6644.jpg



The DT stone is a dark blue-grey slate from Aberllefenni in Gwynedd at the south of Snowdonia, and tbh I can see why it's still in production. They describe it as a 'Mica Slate', but given its relative speed for a slate I'd say this is also quite silica-heavy too, and will give a nice fine knife edge with some bite still. Depending on surface finish I'd guess this could roll from about 6 to 9k ish.

I believe the stones are cut to order so any size can be requested, but the standard 8x2" stone on the website will set you back about £20, and that's looking like a bit of a bargain from where I'm sitting!

IMG-6647.JPG


IMG-6648.jpg
 
In a post above I mentioned a distinction between the 'normal' type of Tam O'Shanter stone (usually grey, but also other colours sometimes), and the finer 'White Tam O'Shanter'. But I'm afraid that isn't quite the whole story...

Because as well as the TOS and the W.TOS, there was one further designation: the F.TOS or 'Fine Tam O'Shanter':

IMG-6640.jpg



These don't seem to come up very often so I can't really distil any received wisdom here, these are just my impressions of the one I found recently. It feels like nothing so much as... a fine Tam O'Shanter. This is probably in the region of the W.TOS in terms of grit - I'd put it at around 10 - 12k, it's softer than any other Tam I've had, and probably a little faster too. Though they're never that quick, and it can make them tricky to use for knives. It finishes a razor nicely, and polishes a knife very well indeed. Visually it's indistinguishable from a normal TOS.

IMG-6643.JPG



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I love Tams (and this one in particular) though I'm not entirely sure why. They're often difficult and recalcitrant stones to use; raising burrs can be nigh-on impossible, but the edge might still be magic, and while they can polish with the best of them, they won't do if you, or they, are not in the mood.

They are perhaps... a brilliant, but dour, Scottish jnat.
 
Found recently and cannot determine if this is a welsh slate. Sold as an unknown natural.
It’s quite fine and puts a great polish on high carbon steel.

it’s a large one which is nice.
It was bundled with a beautiful washita.
The one thing I will say with the oil stones is, that oxidization of the oil really makes it difficult to clean, to see the stone as it would have been when it was new.
 

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Found recently and cannot determine if this is a welsh slate. Sold as an unknown natural.
It’s quite fine and puts a great polish on high carbon steel.

it’s a large one which is nice.
It was bundled with a beautiful washita.
The one thing I will say with the oil stones is, that oxidization of the oil really makes it difficult to clean, to see the stone as it would have been when it was new.

Lovely looking stone! It's an Idwal, 99% sure on that.
 
I hope one of you guys snagged that Fiddich river that went by recently on the auction site. I seen it, book marked, and then forgot to bid.:confused:

A Fiddich?! Oh I didn't see that, got a link? :(. There was a nice looking Glanrafon as part of a lot that included what looked like 3, possibly four old Washitas as well. Though it was ending at 4am here, and I got outbid at the end.

s-l1600 (16).jpg


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I am hopefully getting a Fiddich in a swap with someone on B&B soon though. Which'll be pretty much the last of the UK stones I've been looking for :).
 
I found some options about the various stones we have been discussing.View attachment 176068View attachment 176069


This is excellent, thank you! Lots of interesting things here, but a few things that caught the eye first...

The coarser, faster Grecian stone is regarded more highly than the more normal, finer type of Idwal or Welsh Oilstone.

Likewise I imagine the 'higher quality' version of Charnleys described here is a faster and coarser stone than the type people like for razors nowadays. I think probably the kind of of very old stone I sold to an example of to @captaincaed earlier this year.

The 'Canada Oilstone' in this context is likely to be the Hindostan stone.

The grey / white / black variations of the Turkish stone existed back in the day. I had thought this was a very recent distinction people made.

They were still mixing up coticules and calling them German! I wonder where this idea came from? Richard Knight? Or maybe earlier...?
 
A Fiddich?! Oh I didn't see that, got a link? :(. There was a nice looking Glanrafon as part of a lot that included what looked like 3, possibly four old Washitas as well. Though it was ending at 4am here, and I got outbid at the end.

View attachment 176277

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I am hopefully getting a Fiddich in a swap with someone on B&B soon though. Which'll be pretty much the last of the UK stones I've been looking for :).
That was the one. Glanrafon you say? Well I'm not so disappointed now... :)
 
That was the one. Glanrafon you say? Well I'm not so disappointed now... :)

Yeah that was a GR, which I think you have already anyway (?)

I would've gone higher for a Fiddich as I don't have one yet, but given there are a few Washitas in there too I still think it looks like a good pickup for whoever got it at 130 GBP. I expect someone over on B&B will be a happy bunny!
 
Yeah that was a GR, which I think you have already anyway (?)

I would've gone higher for a Fiddich as I don't have one yet, but given there are a few Washitas in there too I still think it looks like a good pickup for whoever got it at 130 GBP. I expect someone over on B&B will be a happy bunny!
I need to study more pictures of the two. I probably wouldn't have been too disappointed with that group though. It's the shipping that is a killer for us in the USA.
 
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