wear resistant steel comparison

[HSC /// Knives]

Curious if anyone here has a Z wear (or equivalent) and Magnacut knife and care to offer their experience on edge retention comparing the two.
I'm looking for your practical real world opinion

thanks

 

[Benuser]

Abrasion resistance and edge retention are very different notions. Some poor stainless are crazy abrasion resistant due to large, even clustering carbides but won't take a good edge for that very same reason. Expect carbides breaking out. Lack of edge stability.

 

[M1k3]

Abrasion resistance and edge retention are very different notions. Some poor stainless are crazy abrasion resistant due to large, even clustering carbides but won't take a good edge for that very same reason. Expect carbides breaking out. Lack of edge stability.

He's talking about MagnaCut specifically. Not Global chromova crap.

 

[daveb]

Send me a Magna Cut Suji and I'll report back soonest!

Hope France is treating you well.

 

[HSC /// Knives]

Send me a Magna Cut Suji and I'll report back soonest!

Hope France is treating you well.

I just made this one yesterday from leftover material to play with and test my process.

 

[Benuser]

He's talking about MagnaCut specifically. Not Global chromova crap.

Thanks!

 

[Troopah_Knives]

Curious if anyone here has a Z wear (or equivalent) and Magnacut knife and care to offer their experience on edge retention comparing the two.
I'm looking for your practical real world opinion

thanks

I have done a good amount of testing with both steels and have been unable to detect any difference in wear resistance between the two. As a result, I only really use Z-Wear at lower hardnesses (<62RC) where it has better toughness than MagnaCut. Maybe people with more discerning taste could see some difference due to the larger carbide size and presence of softer carbides in Z-Wear but I really couldn't tell.

 

[Barmoley]

I've tried and have both Z-wear and MagnaCut. In my real use I can't tell the difference in edge holding. I also can't really tell the difference between these and pd1 or vanadis 23. All of these seem to hold an edge for similar length of time and dull in a similar manner. To me MagnaCut seems to sharpen a bit easier than the rest not much, but it feels smoother and more buttery somehow. Feels like it grinds easier. It also deburrs really nicely and cleanly. Again not a big difference as Z-wear deburrs nicely too, but I think I detect a little difference. Z-wear also feels a little toothier when finished the same. This might be in my head though as the difference is very little and might be due to something else. Where I see more of a difference is that MagnaCut is more corosion resistant. Z-wear feels almost stainless, but it discolors a little over time. MagnaCut doesn't patina at all so far. Bottom line, I don't think if you gave me 2 similar knives in these steels that I would be able to tell which is which from edge retention standpoint.

Now, the k390 knife that I have has noticeable better edge holding than the others, so at least in my use wear resistance is a pretty good predictor of edge retention when the steels are similarly hard, like in my case.

 

[HSC /// Knives]

@Troopah_Knives @Barmoley
Yes I’m in agreement and this is more or less what I found in my experience similar to your findings.

I just wanted to hear what other users have to say

 

[Barmoley]

By the way it is not only with kitchen knives that I can't really tell the difference. I have Spyderco mules in pd1, MagnaCut and had 4V at the same time before it was stolen. Anyway, I did a lot of regular utility type cutting, cardboard, zip ties, wood witling, cutting branches, etc. Nothing scientific just whatever that size knife is used for and I couldn't really tell the difference among these. I am sure it exists, but in my use without actually tracking number of cuts and such they are close enough to not matter. With these too, corrosion resistance is the obvious difference with 4v being the most reactive by a noticeable amount and MagnaCut not reacting at all. I start seeing differences in performance when I step to A11 mule and then to maxamet. Maxamet clearly has better edge holding especially with cardboard.

 

[captaincaed]

This came up in another thread, cross posting for posterity.

------------

I've had one of each long enough to feel like I have a couple thoughts. Magnacut by Dan, CPM CruWear by Harbeer. Both seem to hold a toothy edge quite well, for a quite a long time. Both seem to have somewhat low toughness, definitely get some microchips during normal use.

Like Harbeer said, the sharpening angle had a huge impact on my perceived sharpness. The magnacut originally had a workhorse grind, quite beefy. I'd say sharpening was at least 20 degrees per side or so. Maybe more. Had a hard time getting an edge I liked even on diamond stones. Just didn't feel toothy enough. Was clearly sharp but not aggressive. After a weight loss program, it slimmed down and has a 12-15 degree angle. It's a different knife. And that difference has persisted. It wasn't a fresh off the stones thing.

Given all that, I still haven't put enough time on these edges to need sharpening. The chips may finally be the motivating factor, not dullness. If anything I could wish for a slightly softer HRC and a bit more toughness. I don't think of myself as hard on edges. But I do have a maple board, and don't fret cutting apple seeds so maybe I am.

They both seem to resist acid well, no patina on either.

Both are in the drawer full time, have been for months.

Worth noting I also have an AEBL by Dan next to them. All three have about the same number of miles on the edge. None have needed sharpening. But the AEBL hasn't chipped, and it has the slimmest grind of all three.

 

[Barmoley]

Very interesting experiences . Do you have any of the more common steels, whites, blues, super or equivalent of these? AEB-L is of course tougher than the other two, but the other two are very tough compared to the ”normal” steels. If you have more common steels do you see them chipping too with similar geometry?

 

[captaincaed]

Yeah I've had a whole spectrum of those yes. I've found many to chip more often and larger than the ones above. For a classic KKF read, @stringer did great destructive testing for science on a Watanabe (blue 2) and Shihan (52100). I'll try to dig up a link.

https://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/threads/durability-testing-watanabe-pro-gyuto.41263/#post-608669
https://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/...i-han-aka-ginrei-240-gyuto.42530/#post-626356
But I never controlled for, or measured, edge angle. Even what I said above is guesswork.

https://knifesteelnerds.com/2021/10...ness-edge-retention-and-corrosion-resistance/
That said I kinda have an intuitive setpoint on my sharpening angle unless a knife is really designed with a specific set like my honesuki. I see chips in all kinds of steels from TF (predictable) to Yanick to Joel Black Apex Ultra to Rader 52100. It all microchips. The 52100 seems the most minor, consistent and less random. The others have seemed to have larger point failures combined with generalized chipping. Ashi white 2 seems pretty hard to hurt, even when I hand it to guests. Go figure.

It's a good question and I haven't looked at all my **** together carefully. Might do that this weekend

 

[Barmoley]

Thanks for the detailed response, I’ve seen all of these. I was just curious about your specific use. If 52100 also chips for you then it is not that surprising that cruwear and MagnaCut also chip. In most cases, in my experience, it is either geometry or left over burr that chips. Free hand sharpening is not conducive to exact angles and in most cases the angles are a pure guess and usually wrong. At least I found that out for myself, I don’t have a good feel for what small angles are. What I thought was 15 in most cases is larger and sometimes smaller. Because I mostly sharpen the same way width of the blade will affect the final angle, but even then doing it free handed the edge has to be convex to some degree, so no way to know what is there. I’ve done some pretty abusive work with zwear, 4v, MagnaCut class steels and I was amazed at how tough the edges are. In two cases the very thin edges warped a little but didn’t chip, which was surprising to me since these were very thin and hard edges, I expected chipping but didn’t see any with 20x magnification.

 

[jedy617]

Man my parents have put my magnacut newham through hell and it's stood up so well. You have to try and chip that thing

 

[captaincaed]

At some point I’ll have to try another Magnacut. Mine is the first one the maker ever made (I volunteered to be the guinnea pig).

In the clear light of day I took a harder look. Looking carefully in good light and being honest with myself:

• every single knife in the drawer has microchips
• the knives I noted earlier have the most obvious ones
• simple carbon steel knives tend to have larger, more obvious chips (52100, white 2, whatever dan prendergast uses, apex ultra, 1.5291872487863 or whatever Kamon uses)
• Tool steels and stainless knives tend to have either edge deformation, or smaller microchips (Kanehide tool steel, magnacut, AEBL, CPM-CruWear)

Caveats:

• I use the HSC as my hard-duty chef, and the Ashi as my hard duty petty. I push them harder than the others.
• The Magnacut wasn’t as chipped as I thought, the edge reflections were more deformations, but I suspect they’ll turn into chips. I just don’t use that one quite as much for … reasons that escape me. I feel like I’m “saving it” for a special meal or some such rubbish.

 

[captaincaed]

Man my parents have put my magnacut newham through hell and it's stood up so well. You have to try and chip that thing

What’s the edge angle and meat behind the edge? I had a Newham that was absurdly thick. I would say to the point of being badly made. Another had a totally reasonable grind.

 

[jedy617]

What’s the edge angle and meat behind the edge? I had a Newham that was absurdly thick. I would say to the point of being badly made. Another had a totally reasonable grind.

Dang, this one is quite thin, how old was yours? This was made like...6 months ago? Not sure what the standard angle is, I can measure the behind the edge thickness when I get home in a few.

I will say they microchipped it once, cutting a watermelon somehow? However they have been using it quite a bit along with me using it regularly and that's the only damage it's sustained

 

[captaincaed]

That beefcake was made 18mo ago. The better grind was 6-12mo before that. His overall craftsmanship is so ridiculously good. Like, no one has any right to be that clean and consistent. I wish I got along with his grinds better.

 

[jedy617]

Yeah his finishing is top notch. It must depend on the example because mine goes through food super nicely. My calipers aren't the best quality but I'll see if I can get some good measurements

 

[captaincaed]

Throw up a pic, nothing wrong with Newham porn

 

[M1k3]

This came up in another thread, cross posting for posterity.

------------

I've had one of each long enough to feel like I have a couple thoughts. Magnacut by Dan, CPM CruWear by Harbeer. Both seem to hold a toothy edge quite well, for a quite a long time. Both seem to have somewhat low toughness, definitely get some microchips during normal use.

Like Harbeer said, the sharpening angle had a huge impact on my perceived sharpness. The magnacut originally had a workhorse grind, quite beefy. I'd say sharpening was at least 20 degrees per side or so. Maybe more. Had a hard time getting an edge I liked even on diamond stones. Just didn't feel toothy enough. Was clearly sharp but not aggressive. After a weight loss program, it slimmed down and has a 12-15 degree angle. It's a different knife. And that difference has persisted. It wasn't a fresh off the stones thing.

Given all that, I still haven't put enough time on these edges to need sharpening. The chips may finally be the motivating factor, not dullness. If anything I could wish for a slightly softer HRC and a bit more toughness. I don't think of myself as hard on edges. But I do have a maple board, and don't fret cutting apple seeds so maybe I am.

They both seem to resist acid well, no patina on either.

Both are in the drawer full time, have been for months.

Worth noting I also have an AEBL by Dan next to them. All three have about the same number of miles on the edge. None have needed sharpening. But the AEBL hasn't chipped, and it has the slimmest grind of all three.

I find it interesting you're getting chipping. I sharpen mine at a somewhat low angle (about 12° each side last time I checked my angles) and use poly boards.

 

[jedy617]

Throw up a pic, nothing wrong with Newham porn

Just measured, behind the edge near the heel was about .45mm and near the tip was about .38mm

 

[jedy617]

 

[jedy617]

 

[Barmoley]

At some point I’ll have to try another Magnacut. Mine is the first one the maker ever made (I volunteered to be the guinnea pig).

In the clear light of day I took a harder look. Looking carefully in good light and being honest with myself:

• every single knife in the drawer has microchips
• the knives I noted earlier have the most obvious ones
• simple carbon steel knives tend to have larger, more obvious chips (52100, white 2, whatever dan prendergast uses, apex ultra, 1.5291872487863 or whatever Kamon uses)
• Tool steels and stainless knives tend to have either edge deformation, or smaller microchips (Kanehide tool steel, magnacut, AEBL, CPM-CruWear)

Caveats:

• I use the HSC as my hard-duty chef, and the Ashi as my hard duty petty. I push them harder than the others.
• The Magnacut wasn’t as chipped as I thought, the edge reflections were more deformations, but I suspect they’ll turn into chips. I just don’t use that one quite as much for … reasons that escape me. I feel like I’m “saving it” for a special meal or some such rubbish.

Dulling in my use usually comes from deformation. The harder ones deform less.

 

[captaincaed]

View attachment 288364

That'll do!

 

[captaincaed]

I find it interesting you're getting chipping. I sharpen mine at a somewhat low angle (about 12° each side last time I checked my angles) and use poly boards.

It's petty minor. I probably couldn't even photograph it with my phone if I tried. Every carbon knife has bigger chips. It was a good exercise to confront the reality of what lives in my drawer.