What grit do you finish your knives on?

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childermass said:
I have had one for some time and found it only useable with slurry. Even then it’s so awfully slow that I decided to get rid of it.

The problem with belgian stones is that they don’t really release their abrasive on their own. The garnets just sit there only showing the very peak. As they are rather round due to the crystal configuration makes the stone almost useless without slurry.
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Thanks! Makes sense.
 
TRPV4 said:
Beginning to realise my technique is ****.. having problems getting a clean apex on lower grits. could you explain what you mean by rolling the edge on the finer stone?
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There are probably many others that could explain this far better, but my understanding is that not managing to keep a consistent angle on successively finer stones rounds off whatever apex one might have been able to create at the outset.
 
DisconnectedAG said:
This is the second time in a short period I see people mention belgian blue. I have one I bought off knives and tools without any expectations, but how the heck do you use it? It does absolutely nothing for me. I've tried it with heaps of water (it's very thirsty) I've tried it with minimal water. I've tried it for edge finishing (it does **** all for me) and for polishing (waste of time).

Any advice appreciated. I'm not that bothered, as it was just a bit of a laugh when I bought it, but it would be interesting to understand how people actually use these.
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https://www.amazon.co.uk/Combination-Sharpening-Brocken-Pyrenees-200X60X20/dp/B00RC2DV4G
These are selected to "polish" in a certain way that gives a very clean apex. The BBW is rated around 6k. The negative comment there is related to the fact that the stone is not delivered razor ready. Most people like these for razors as they deliver a very clean edge.
I just make a bit of slurry and finish with water for anything I use it.

Give a Dalmore Blue a try or even a Tam O'Shanter that makes this razor sharp micro serrated edge.
 
DisconnectedAG said:
This is the second time in a short period I see people mention belgian blue. I have one I bought off knives and tools without any expectations, but how the heck do you use it? It does absolutely nothing for me. I've tried it with heaps of water (it's very thirsty) I've tried it with minimal water. I've tried it for edge finishing (it does **** all for me) and for polishing (waste of time).

Any advice appreciated. I'm not that bothered, as it was just a bit of a laugh when I bought it, but it would be interesting to understand how people actually use these.
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I use Belgian coticules and blues all the time. I always though these Belgians don’t absorb any water at all, it just sits on top, at least mine and every other example I’ve seen do that. Maybe yours has a crack in it that is taking in water?

The blues are different in that the vast majority of blue stone coming from the Ardennes mine is unusable, as in they don’t have many abrasive garnets in them. I could be wrong, but only BBW near the yellow coticule veins have enough garnets to efficiently cut, which they hand pick for sale. My BBW all polish well and cut slow/medium speed, you could have gotten a dud :confused:
 
I use them for deburring and reviving an edge. For kitchen knives don't have them too smooth. Once in the year they get an Atoma 140 treatment. I use saliva instead of water — a bit old school, but it works.
 
Kristoffer said:
I finally got time to try my new Suehiro Rika 5000 on Mazakis Shirogami today. As advertised it left some really nice bit. It was quite the difference to the Ohishi 6000 I used as a finisher previously, which could make any steel glide across tomato skin like Elsa in Disney on ice.

...truth be told, it could just as well have been that my technique now sucks slightly less and that i didn’t roll the edge on the finer stone. I’d much rather think it was thanks to the addiction-feed by certain helpful KKF members though.
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So I guess we just coined a new term:


The Elsa Effect: Your edge shows bling bling, but too rounded to carve into tomato/pepper skins
 
DisconnectedAG said:
This is the second time in a short period I see people mention belgian blue. I have one I bought off knives and tools without any expectations, but how the heck do you use it? It does absolutely nothing for me. I've tried it with heaps of water (it's very thirsty) I've tried it with minimal water. I've tried it for edge finishing (it does **** all for me) and for polishing (waste of time).

Any advice appreciated. I'm not that bothered, as it was just a bit of a laugh when I bought it, but it would be interesting to understand how people actually use these.
Click to expand...

Based upon your comments, I think you got a really bad example of these stones... Even the most mediocre one I've ever gotten didn't absorb water, and my best actually has a pretty decent cutting speed and rather phenomenal range on slurry.

Some Belgian Blue's actually do auto-slurry, and these can have quite a high cutting speed (Though not as high as a La Veinette Coticule that auto-slurries... I have one like that. Really neat stone.), though I prefer the ones that don't, as it's easier for me to finish with a crisp edge on the slightly harder examples. Like all natural stones, there's a lot of variance in them, but unlike Coti's or J-Nats there isn't as much labeling of different veins that helps you identify when you've got a great one (Which also helps keep the price down.). The blue-purple ones in my experience aren't anywhere near as nice as the pinkish-purple ones. Based upon the color of the BBW layer on my natural combos, I'd say that the pinkish-purple color is an indication it's closer to the Coti vein. The blue-purple ones, are not crap, but they do seem to perform a little more like a slate stone.

I personally would never call a BBW 'useless without slurry'... They just act like any other fine stone which doesn't auto-slurry. I.E. they act as fine as they are.

A great example of BBW can do the heavy lifting from 800-grit synth on thick slurry, and finish in the 8-ish K range (Though obviously with more tooth than a similar grit synth.) by diluting that slurry. It makes them nice, versatile stones, and they seem to do better against alloyed steels (Aogami, HAP-40, etc.) than most other naturals I've tried. They also can produce a decent contrast on clad knives on slurry. You just have to get used to their technique. It's very different from J-Nats.

Hope this helps...

- Steampunk
 
BBW is an entirely different acronym in the US. Don’t google it.
 
Steampunk said:
The blue-purple ones in my experience aren't anywhere near as nice as the pinkish-purple ones. Based upon the color of the BBW layer on my natural combos, I'd say that the pinkish-purple color is an indication it's closer to the Coti vein. The blue-purple ones, are not crap, but they do seem to perform a little more like a slate stone.
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Are you sure about these "natural combos" having a BB side? I thought the Coticule was just fixed on a piece of inert slate.
 
Benuser said:
Are you sure about these "natural combos" having a BB side? I thought the Coticule was just fixed on a piece of inert slate.
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Most Coti's are sold on a slate back which cannot be used for sharpening, and you will find some 'man made' combos where the Coticule layer has been glued to a chunk of Belgian Blue... However, there are some so called 'natural' combos, which are cut from the vein at the intersection of the Coticule and Blue layer. They're the most collectible. I have two smaller ones like this, and they behave interestingly.

- Steampunk

P.S. Yes... 'BBW' has another meaning in some circles. The joke's been done to death on the straight razor forums. :rolleyes:
 
Here’s one of my natural combos. This BBW is quick to make a burr, and is more purple and blue than pink.

455D4F9B-866E-4526-BC96-4F64230EB3F1.jpeg
 
I took my two vintage cotiBBW combos home for Christmas to sharpen my family's knives. It worked great as long as the knives were in pretty good shape. I wouldn't want to use it for thinning but for touching up and maintaining edges they excel.

IMG_20190908_103959.jpg
 
There are some old layers of BBW that are very hard and they are very dark red-brown color. Those are very fast. Had one years ago. Unfortunately they are very rare these days.
There's also a very old and dense layer, that's better than most razor grade coticules. I've read about it and years after I managed to find one. Don't have it anymore.
These 2 might be the rarest BBW and the best I know.

BBW and coticules have been used a lot and they vary beyond any expectations.

Coticules were sold in a natural bond with BBW and some bonds are a sing for particular layers. It's a shame I couldn't keep them all.

They were also sold as sigle layer. I have two of these, small, great razor hones.

And they were sold glued to different types of slate. Some usable, some too soft and/or lacking any abrasives to be used for sharpening. I have one that's more like this type below, but it's just a guess it might be that.

https://www.bessermesser.de/Wassersteine-natürlich/BM-Schiefer-6000
Have you guys used these? I was always curious how would they compare.
 
Steampunk said:
Based upon your comments, I think you got a really bad example of these stones... Even the most mediocre one I've ever gotten didn't absorb water, and my best actually has a pretty decent cutting speed and rather phenomenal range on slurry.

Some Belgian Blue's actually do auto-slurry, and these can have quite a high cutting speed (Though not as high as a La Veinette Coticule that auto-slurries... I have one like that. Really neat stone.), though I prefer the ones that don't, as it's easier for me to finish with a crisp edge on the slightly harder examples. Like all natural stones, there's a lot of variance in them, but unlike Coti's or J-Nats there isn't as much labeling of different veins that helps you identify when you've got a great one (Which also helps keep the price down.). The blue-purple ones in my experience aren't anywhere near as nice as the pinkish-purple ones. Based upon the color of the BBW layer on my natural combos, I'd say that the pinkish-purple color is an indication it's closer to the Coti vein. The blue-purple ones, are not crap, but they do seem to perform a little more like a slate stone.

I personally would never call a BBW 'useless without slurry'... They just act like any other fine stone which doesn't auto-slurry. I.E. they act as fine as they are.

A great example of BBW can do the heavy lifting from 800-grit synth on thick slurry, and finish in the 8-ish K range (Though obviously with more tooth than a similar grit synth.) by diluting that slurry. It makes them nice, versatile stones, and they seem to do better against alloyed steels (Aogami, HAP-40, etc.) than most other naturals I've tried. They also can produce a decent contrast on clad knives on slurry. You just have to get used to their technique. It's very different from J-Nats.

Hope this helps...

- Steampunk
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I totally agree.

The first problem with Belgian Blue's is the same as with other natural stones - it is a kind of "game of chance" and you never know what you will get.
A number of copies are completely useless, some average with 5000 - 6000 grit, a few (and they are rare) are harder and finer, about 6000 - 8000 grit. Even the right slurrystone can do a lot.

I already had a few copies, some was scrap, I still have 2 today. One of them makes auto-slurry and is very good, the other one I have is much harder and finer. Both can also be used without slurry, without slurry they are considerably finer.

The second problem with Belgian Blue's is that you can make an edge very sharp, razorsharp, but the edge is not suitable for the kitchen, it has no bite. Razorsharp, but without a bite. There is a reason that the razorguys love these stones.
The harder stone I have makes an edge with bite, but it was a mixture of luck and a long search with a lot of trial and error.

Today I would not do that again, I would buy a natural combo stone (Belgian Blue and Coticule), after everything I have heard and read, the Belgian Blue's should be significantly better with these stones.
 
KingShapton said:
I totally agree.

The first problem with Belgian Blue's is the same as with other natural stones - it is a kind of "game of chance" and you never know what you will get.
A number of copies are completely useless, some average with 5000 - 6000 grit, a few (and they are rare) are harder and finer, about 6000 - 8000 grit. Even the right slurrystone can do a lot.

I already had a few copies, some was scrap, I still have 2 today. One of them makes auto-slurry and is very good, the other one I have is much harder and finer. Both can also be used without slurry, without slurry they are considerably finer.

The second problem with Belgian Blue's is that you can make an edge very sharp, razorsharp, but the edge is not suitable for the kitchen, it has no bite. Razorsharp, but without a bite. There is a reason that the razorguys love these stones.
The harder stone I have makes an edge with bite, but it was a mixture of luck and a long search with a lot of trial and error.

Today I would not do that again, I would buy a natural combo stone (Belgian Blue and Coticule), after everything I have heard and read, the Belgian Blue's should be significantly better with these stones.
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Thanks for the wealth of info. This makes sense. I'm keeping mine for now just for shits and giggles. If I decide to go zero-waste it may well come in handy as a razor polisher or something. But for now it's just a (******) brick that doesn't do much.
 
labor of love said:
Watanabe recommends shapton pro 1k> kitayama. Works a lot better than some might think it does.
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Interesting, lately i have been really happy with Chosera1000>Suehiro Rika 5000 or Naniwa Snow White and light strop.
 
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