What happened to my stock?

[aboynamedsuita]

I was recently making stock/broth from all the pork and chicken bones I’d been accumulating, and did two separate batches with relatively the same process. Usually I rinse the bones, do an initial blanch & drain, then bring to boil and skim the foam off as it appears, reduce the heat and let it simmer.

However, I’m pretty sure I reduced one more than the other (ie was more concentrated) and simmered it longer in doing so. This batch sort of “separated” or “split”… all the solids seem to have floated to the top with the fat layer, rather than be emulsified ;picture below).

Any idea what happened here? Did I overcook it (didn’t know that’s possible) or boil too aggressively?

Here’s a picture of a jar from each batch after cooling:

 

[HumbleHomeCook]

I'm no expert but it looks like the cloudy one boiled.

 

[JASinIL2006]

I'm no expert but it looks like the cloudy one boiled.

That's what I was going to say, too.

 

[esoo]

I'm not sure about the boiling, but I know all the stock I do has looked like the left one. I'm usually trying for clear chicken stock, and I never boil it (recently discovered the slow cooker for doing this)

 

[aboynamedsuita]

Both of them were boiling/simmering at some point (in the future I’ll maybe try without taking to a boil), and I also skimmed the froth off at the beginning. I usually get the “right” (cloudy/emulsified) result when I’m going for a ramen broth with pork and chicken bones. The “left” one also started off the same, but toward the end, it’s almost like it coddled or something.

 

[McMan]

I see the left as nice (reduced a bit, hence the color) and the right as boiled (either rapid boil and/or long boil will emulsify the fat into the stock).

 

[natto]

I usually get the “right” (cloudy/emulsified) result when I’m going for a ramen broth with pork and chicken bones.

Looks like the cloudy broth got more collagen or gelatine from pork ribs, joints and such. German "Sauerfleisch" looks the same. It's pork broth.

 

[natto]

Just in case...

If pork broth becomes clear and fluid, there might be a problem.

 

[bsfsu]

One looks like a chicken stock and the one on the right a pork stock.

What was the ratio[edit: ratios are really important] of chix/pork in each pot? (Did you perhaps have more pork bones in the right pot)
What was the ratio of water to bones in each pot?

Generally if your stock goes cloudy you have
*boiled the pot too long
*skimmed the scum on top but not all of the fat (my job for years in kitchens was stocks and I would skim the fat so no emulsification occurs[edit: if you leave fat on top of the stock as it simmers, some of this fat will emulsify in to the liquid and 'cloud' the stock)
*Pork bones have lots of gelatin and can cloud stocks
*Did you use hot or cold water when you started?

 

[natto]

*Did you use hot or cold water when you started?

Would you mind to explain the advantager of either one? My knowledge is pretty basic.

Edit

if you leave fat on top of the stock as it simmers, some of this fat will emulsify in to the liquid and 'cloud' the stock

thank you, never thought about that.

 

[bsfsu]

Would you mind to explain the advantager of either one? My knowledge is pretty basic.

Edit

thank you, never thought about that.

Generally you start a stock with cold water but if the bones/mirepoix are hot you can start with fresh boiled water.

If you start with cold bones and hot water the stock will cloud. (You can go the other way around though, hot bones cold water.)

If the fat is not skimmed it can cloud.

If you stir the stock it can cloud.

If you boil the stock it can cloud.

If you break up the mirepoix too much when straining it can cloud your stock.

If you cook for too long the veggies can break down too much and the stock can cloud.

edit: You also need to top up the water in your stock as it evaporates. Add cold water to keep all bones covered. (If you want to reduce your stock you should strain it first.)

General times :
fish 1 hour
chicken 6 hours
beef 12 hours

I worked in Restaurants and as a private chef in New Zealand and Europe for 25+ years. I have a French training background so I'm a bit old fashioned in my approach. Now I sell and sharpen knives and try to be kind to people who work in hospo.

 

[Rangen]

*skimmed the scum on top but not all of the fat (my job for years in kitchens was stocks and I would skim the fat so no emulsification occurs[edit: if you leave fat on top of the stock as it simmers, some of this fat will emulsify in to the liquid and 'cloud' the stock)

I am interested in your technique here. How do you skim the fat off of a pot of stock? The only thing I can think of, that wouldn't remove flavorful water, would be to spoon it into a fat separator, but if you have something else, I'm interested.

I rarely try to make clear stocks, because the cloudy ones are more pleasing to my palate. I'm mostly making Chinese stock, chicken and pork and country ham (substitute for unobtainable Chinese hams), and not for clear soups. The only veggies are ginger and scallion. I find that if I simmer it for 2-3 days, I get a lot more flavor. Also I'm using stewing hens (aka played out old laying hens), which are dirt cheap (when you can find them) and have a wonderful flavor. But they take many hours to fall apart and yield all that flavor.

 

[bsfsu]

I am interested in your technique here. How do you skim the fat off of a pot of stock? The only thing I can think of, that wouldn't remove flavorful water, would be to spoon it into a fat separator, but if you have something else, I'm interested.

I rarely try to make clear stocks, because the cloudy ones are more pleasing to my palate. I'm mostly making Chinese stock, chicken and pork and country ham (substitute for unobtainable Chinese hams), and not for clear soups. The only veggies are ginger and scallion. I find that if I simmer it for 2-3 days, I get a lot more flavor. Also I'm using stewing hens (aka played out old laying hens), which are dirt cheap (when you can find them) and have a wonderful flavor. But they take many hours to fall apart and yield all that flavor.

A ladle to skim the fat. Any stock skimmed off can be recovered once the fat has set in a fridge.

 

[natto]

Thank you @bsfsu .

your approach remids me of the boiling broth nightmare in tampopo. Got a bookmark to your post.

 

[aboynamedsuita]

One looks like a chicken stock and the one on the right a pork stock.

What was the ratio[edit: ratios are really important] of chix/pork in each pot? (Did you perhaps have more pork bones in the right pot)
What was the ratio of water to bones in each pot?

Generally if your stock goes cloudy you have
*boiled the pot too long
*skimmed the scum on top but not all of the fat (my job for years in kitchens was stocks and I would skim the fat so no emulsification occurs[edit: if you leave fat on top of the stock as it simmers, some of this fat will emulsify in to the liquid and 'cloud' the stock)
*Pork bones have lots of gelatin and can cloud stocks
*Did you use hot or cold water when you started?

I don’t recall the exact ratios but both were probably at least 3 parts pork to 1 part chicken (maybe a little more chicken on the left). I was making ramen broth from all the bones I’ve accumulated in the freezer over the past several months. The left one started off with more bones too, and was also reduced more, so I guess the ratio of bones to water is higher too.

This sudden clarification toward the end of cooking confused me since I’d think that having cooked for longer and not completely skimmed (scum and fat) would keep emulsified or cause to cloud. I sort of thought that perhaps cooking longer caused the density of the stock due to gelatin to change and all the suspended solids to float (kind of like the old elementary school science class trick where they sink an egg in fresh water but float it in salt water).

Both started with cold water and were rinsed several times to remove blood, etc. before heating. Once heated, the first pot of water was drained (sort of “blanch” I suppose), and then the scum was skimmed going forward. There wasn’t much for mirepoix in either of these, just a bit of scallion and ginger.

The batch with the jars on the left sort of defied my expectations all things considered haha, it still tastes OK and will be used at home. But for making ramen I prefer the broth from the batch of jars on the right.

 

[johnvburke100]

Thank you @bsfsu .

your approach remids me of the boiling broth nightmare in tampopo. Got a bookmark to your post.

One of my favorite movies--glad to see it has other fans. "Don't die! Cook rice!" with Mahler on the soundtrack...