Which is the best laser?

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daveb said:
I don't find the HD2 to be a laser - more a light mid weight. Suisin IH, Gesshin Ginga, Tadasuna, own the laser market. IMO

Describing knives to folks that haven't used knives is like describing a landscape to a blind person.. It can be rewarding. Can also be frustrating when the blind person insists there's a shrubbery over there because someone else told him there was.


:coffee2:
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Must have told Jose about the shrubbery but forgot to tell him about the cliff in front of it. He's been buying up BST like a bull in a China shop.
 
Good to know. I had a super thin Konosuke over a decade ago before they had all these different series. Just an unnamed basic line in white or stainless, and the Fujiyamas. I thought the HD series was currently the thinnest, my mistake. The one I owned was comparable to a Suisin IH or Tadatsuna.

My point stands though - what is a laser? Is it defined by overall weight or cutting performance? If a light-midweight Sanjo gyuto is thinner in the first 1cm behind the edge, is it more laser-like than a lightweight Sakai gyuto with a thinner spine?

JML seems to want to collect The Best ____ in every category. But these categories are artificial, and subject to debate. If you ask, "what's the best laser?" eventually the old argument about 'what is a laser?' comes up. A clearer question would be something like, "what's the best Sakai-style thin-spine lightweight gyuto?"
 
One comment I got more than once over PM is not to look too hard at the classics lasers like the Suisin Inox Honyaki, Ashi Ginga or Shibata Kotetsu, and other names mentioned like Makoto Kurusoki, because these are all prelaminate knives generally with less handwork by the makers. One aspect of "best" I've been wondering about is whether there is a higher end non-custom maker with more work into the knife, for example, on the grind to aid food release. (I also wonder if the nature of thin blades is that more work on them won't change much as there is much less knife to work with.)

I have my eye on Raicho (礼頂の包丁 | 株式会社　礼頂　｜　こだわりの包丁) as a one man shop trying to make this kind of higher end R2 laser.

Raicho No Ren 240 gyuto stock photo.jpg
 
josemartinlopez said:
One comment I got more than once over PM is not to look too hard at the classics lasers like the Suisin Inox Honyaki, Ashi Ginga or Shibata Kotetsu, and other names mentioned like Makoto Kurusoki, because these are all prelaminate knives generally with less handwork by the makers.
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Sakai lasers are stamped monosteel knives. Prelaminated stock is more for sanmai knives. I heard Shibata AS is forged by Ikeda from Echizen, although Ikeda is probably using prelaminated stock.
 
Lasers were my favorite type of knife but I have been gravitating away from them. I have or have had pretty much all of them in the various makers, versions, vintages, sizes and steels, so have had a good look around at them. I do like lasers' cutting performance, I highly value a knife that glides effortlessly through food. But, I have also discovered that I like a knife with a thicker spine near the bolster for comfort and for most of the spine for rigidity and the additional weight it provides. I also highly value a knife with a thin tip so like knives with a strong distal taper and thin tip. My favorites are Gengetsu, Wakui, and Ryusen Blazen.

Amongst the lasers my favorites all around are the Suisin inox honjaki and the Konosuke hd2 older version with the flatter profile and long skinny handle.
Favorite grind: SIH
Favorite profile and blade shape:
older HD2
Favorite handle: SIH and older HD2
Favorite kanji: Ginga
Favorite blade thickness: HD2
Favorite steel: to be determined
Things I dont like: exposed machi, english printing on blade, extra thin blades, too much belly, rust, too light of a knife, blade heavy balance, and big handles.

Another thing that I like about Sanjo knives as compared to Sakai knives is that the Sanjo knives are a bit longer and combined with their extra weight I prefer their 210 knives over the Sakai knives which just seem too small, the Sanjo 210's are a better fit for me.

I'm still in the laser game, have a used Tadatsuna inox 240 gyuto on its way :)
 
Thanks for that. Definitely something timeless about the Suisin Inox Honyaki and what you would think looks like a cheap, crappy handle.
 
Please do! To Mandarin speakers, the "workhorse" kanji on Kato is weird.
 
Best Laser? Suisin Inox Honyaki... ;)

Only too expensive IMHO these days...
 
Laser is a sexy word. Brings up all kinds of reactions. Is a devin thomas ITK gyuto a laser?
 
josemartinlopez said:
Definitely something timeless about the Suisin Inox Honyaki and what you would think looks like a cheap, crappy handle.
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Don't think I've ever seen SIH and "cheap, crappy handle" in the same sentence before. There is no shrubbery and you are an insufferable dolt.
 
Z-wear from @HSC /// Knives is my recommendation. I beat the hell out of mine and its never chipped and hardly scratched on items including rubberbanded stacks of lemongrass and chicken bones. After learning the knife and making small technique adjustments to suit the grind I can get equal food release to my middleweights that are 1-2mm thicker at the spine. A well made laser will perform as well as you do.
 
daveb said:
Don't think I've ever seen SIH and "cheap, crappy handle" in the same sentence before.
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"what you would think"... in not so bright lighting etc mistaking them for normal magnolia handles
 
Nagakin said:
Z-wear from @HSC /// Knives is my recommendation.
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Are we still talking lasers? I've three zwear knives now and would not consider them lasers. Very nice grind, thin where it needs to be but more robust than most midweights. I like them as an all day knife - do anything in the kitchen.
 
@daveb, you did get my PM weeks back that I took your advice and ordered Suisin Inox Honyaki in the exact lengths you recommended?
 
daveb said:
Are we still talking lasers? I've three zwear knives now and would not consider them lasers. Very nice grind, thin where it needs to be but more robust than most midweights. I like them as an all day knife - do anything in the kitchen.
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I would consider my copy one by my standards, I requested a shorter heel (48mm) and the grind is thin throughout with some flex along most of the blade. Can definitely see how the grind can be considered middleweight if there was more height behind the edge. Mine is 270 and feels about the same in hand as my 225s do. That could also have to do with the balance point being spot on though.
 
Nagakin said:
I would consider my copy one by my standards, I requested a shorter heel (48mm) and the grind is thin throughout with some flex along most of the blade. Can definitely see how the grind can be considered middleweight if there was more height behind the edge. Mine is 270 and feels about the same in hand as my 225s do. That could also have to do with the balance point being spot on though.
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Sounds like a different knife. My gyuto is tall, (a little taller than I like normallly). Now I'm going to have to get out the scale and the calipers. I have a petty, suji, and 250mm gyuto. The gyuto feels like it's at the workhorse end of the scale.
 
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