At the risk of sounding too ignorant ...

[ptolemy]

I admit, I only been to a few fine dining places and even then, they weren't Michelin starred ones, so I admit some of this will likely sound ignorant, but lately, I been watching this YT series, which I have been enjoying... Mise en Place and Smoke Point by eater channel. My main interest in it are not really the recipes or how everyone says it's hard work, etc (that's obviously to me and should be to anyone), but more about curiosity about the business. I don't have first hand experience, but I imagine it's not really as rosy or romantic as they make it out to be, but I did find a video that I really disliked and I found another one that I really liked, so I wanted to compare and contrast of why I disliked one and really liked the other...

I really liked this video. The goat preparation, how they carve it, then marinade it and then braise it, and then roll it in a roulade and then portion it and serve it (the portion/serving part is here). I can totally see why this is a restaurant dish. It's a lot of work, but at the same time, I can do this at home quite easily. I can also do this with pork or beef or mix of any meats. I can also use any kind of spices as well, and the main preparation here is rolling it, and then storing, portioning it and adding something acidic to cut through the fatty richness of the roulade. To me, this is why you would want to dine out. Something that takes a while to make, and to refine, while not being pretentious.

And here is an example of a very well known and super high end/refined place that really made me feel like it's pretentious as heck. Mostly because they spent 15-20 min of plating 1 dish with 50 dots. (and then 50+ smaller dots on top of those 50 dots)... and if 1 dot wasn't perfect, they would restart if they cannot fix it. To me, that is just TOO fussy. Obviously, dining is maybe 50% about food, rest is service and entertainment, but really, is it just me or is that too fussy?

I remember watching Jaques Pepin making designs in 70s to 90s cutting from tomato/etc and that looks nice and different, but that also probably took him 1-3 min most of the time..

I fully acknowledge that I am not their target audience and wowing is probably a big deal in a place like that, and especially being in LV, but, i have to wonder, if there was a simpler way to plate it, with similar wow factor.

 

[ethompson]

Paging @Illyria (sorry if this induces PTSD lol)

 

[ptolemy]

Paging @Illyria (sorry if this induces PTSD lol)

shoot... I was going add an apology ahead of time, in case someone worked there or in a similar establishment... My bad!!!

 

[Chopper88]

I think this also depends on the restaurant itself and what it's trying to achieve.

Some try to invent new things no one has ever done before, or present it in a way no one has ever thought of before.
Some try to achieve perfection in every aspect of a dish by approaching things in a scientific way comparing every variation of ingredients and preparation and processing.

Think of Jiro Ono, famous from 'Jiro dreams of sushi' for example. 3 stars, plating almost can't be more plain though.

Easier said than done with most of these high end restaurants being what you're describing, but try to pick the restaurant based on the experience you're looking for.

 

[Delat]

I think both types of restaurants are great depending on the experience you’re looking for. There’s also a huge middle ground that I like, which is dishes and ingredients or combinations thereof that I’ve never had before, or which are much more elevated than I would’ve thought possible (in terms of flavor). But served in a nice but approachable way. For Robuchon I’ve never eaten at the main restaurant but I totally love the more casual Atelier de Robuchon (I met the man himself there a few times); my boss was actually going to take me to the main restaurant last year but unfortunately they were closed on the day we had available - almost made me .

I’m always thrilled when I’m eating a meal thinking either “omg this is fantastic and I can totally make an imitation ripoff version at home that will be almost as good” or “omg I would love to make this at home but I can’t even identify the seasonings/spices so I better just enjoy it while I can”.

I’ve also been a couple molecular gastronomy places back when it was newish and it was just a fun, entertaining experience. The food was killer, but the full experience was an experience with a meal vs just a meal, or maybe a meal as experience. Not necessarily the types of places you put on your circuit to visit every few weeks though. I’m guessing the main Robuchon restaurant is along those lines.

 

[M1k3]

Plating definitely depends on what the establishment is trying to achieve. 3 stars versus just nice makes a huge difference, with lots of in-between.

 

[spaceconvoy]

I like it when they use those little plastic baskets with the brown paper

 

[riba]

I like rustic style door, or simple stuff that just shows the greatness of the product (like you often encounter around the Mediterranean), and prefer a relaxed setting over a formal one.

But last year I went to Hide (London) for lunch. I came out very very impressed. Best was how well everything combined taste wise, was rather outer worldly. (Ofc everything else was up to snuff as well).

 

[boomchakabowwow]

I love the theater of fine dining. I can barely afford it so I really enjoy when we splurge.

personally, my true love are dive joints. having said that, I got to visit a high end restaurant kitchen and it was mind blowing. fun.

like that roulade mentioned above. how do they keep it warm and moist to serve up at unknown times? my visit, I saw the cheats for risotto.

 

[ptolemy]

I love the theater of fine dining. I can barely afford it so I really enjoy when we splurge.

personally, my true love are dive joints. having said that, I got to visit a high end restaurant kitchen and it was mind blowing. fun.

like that roulade mentioned above. how do they keep it warm and moist to serve up at unknown times? my visit, I saw the cheats for risotto.

my guess, they cut it per order, 2 min per side for crust and then oven for maybe 6-8 min to warm it through? it's pretty fatty, so it should stay moist

 

[btbyrd]

I think you have to understand Robuchon in context. It's classic high end French fine dining of the three starred variety. Bocuse d'Or style stuff. The restaurant caters to international high roller clientele in the world's largest hotel that also has one of the world's largest casinos. It's located right next to the most spectacular stage show I've ever seen (Cirque du Soleil's "Ka"). Everything about Robuchon is geared toward Frenchy French opulence delivered at the highest possible standard. The ingredients are of the highest quality, flown in from all around the world. They're prepared with flawless technique, and the finished dishes deliver exceptional flavors, textures, and aromas while also being visually stunning. If you're not familiar with high end fine dining, some of it may seem "fussy." Maybe it is. But considering how much work went into making what's on the plate, how much the diners have spent for that plate (to say nothing of the aesthetic desires and self-respect of the chef) there's no reason to serve anything less than perfection. If you have to wipe and restart a plate after 15 minutes of working on it, you will fast become an expert in not ******* up those plates.

When you eat at a place like Robuchon, you're paying for the razzle dazzle. And when I eat at a place like that, I want them to razzle dazzle me. I want to marvel at the spectacle before I destroy it with gustatory glee. I want it to be spectacular. I want them to wipe the plate and start again and to get it right before they bring me what they're serving. That's why you go there.

Alinea had this lamb dish that was served with 86 garnishes. It's definitely a somewhat fussy presentation. And the diner's not even going to eat a lot of those garnishes. But that's part of the over-the-top nature of 3-star Michelin dining.



Daniel Patterson at Coi had this dish many years ago that was very simple in terms of ingredients, but was very labor intensive to plate. They cut roasted beets into individual flower pedals and then fashioned them into a blossom. For a night at the restaurant with 60 diners, he said it took 15 hours of labor to produce just the beet roses for service.



Fussy? Yes. I guess. But the razzle dazzle factor is through the roof.

You can't eat like that all the time. Or even most of the time. But when you have a good meal like that, you'll remember it forever.