Blade lengths.....

[fourmations]

Hi all, so I'm getting my first japanese knife and was going with the ubiquitous 210 gyuto but my current knives are shorter and I'm a little concerned about how the 210 will feel, I've done a ridiculous amount of research and watched hours of YouTube videos (all part of the fun) and there's a lot of praise out there for 240's but I'm certainly not going down that route (yet) the attached photo shows my two longest blades that I use regularly with a 215mm blade F Dick slicer for reference, I never use the slicer, it was given to me, the no name cheapo stainless santuko is my main "learn to sharpen" knife and the global is a go to for many years, the 215 f dick slicer feels too long for my tastes granted it's a totally different shape but as said in a bit concerned that my 210 gyuto won't feel right and then I'll be a sad man! I'm a home cook with reasonable knife skills and use a pinch grip, any thoughts, thanks

 

[Luminaire]

After a while 210 will start to feel small....my first j knife was a 240, felt enormous so I bought a lot of 210s. Now I never use the 210s because they feel too small.

Assuming you have the space for bigger knives ofc...just gotta find your preferences

 

[HumbleHomeCook]

Generally speaking, I prefer shorter knives and find 180-200 my sweet spot. But a 210 doesn't feel bad to me. 240 is more than I want for my space and I don't really care for them.

The only way you're going to know though is try different things. Who knows, you might find you prefer santoku's. Nothing wrong with that.

 

[esoo]

Measure your knives from heel to tip.
Sakai 210 will generally be 195-200mm as the 210 is measured from handle to tip.

Sanjo 210 will be ~215mm as they measure a different way.

Most good stores will list the actual heel to tip length.

 

[fourmations]

Hi all, so I'm getting my first japanese knife and was going with the ubiquitous 210 gyuto but my current knives are shorter and I'm a little concerned about how the 210 will feel, I've done a ridiculous amount of research and watched hours of YouTube videos (all part of the fun) and there's a lot of praise out there for 240's but I'm certainly not going down that route (yet) the attached photo shows my two longest blades that I use regularly with a 215mm blade F Dick slicer for reference, I never use the slicer, it was given to me, the no name cheapo stainless santuko is my main "learn to sharpen" knife and the global is a go to for many years, the 215 f dick slicer feels too long for my tastes granted it's a totally different shape but as said in a bit concerned that my 210 gyuto won't feel right and then I'll be a sad man! I'm a home cook with reasonable knife skills and use a pinch grip, any thoughts, thanksView attachment 282979

Measure your knives from heel to tip.
Sakai 210 will generally be 195-200mm as the 210 is measured from handle to tip.

Sanjo 210 will be ~215mm as they measure a different way.

Most good stores will list the actual heel to tip length.

Thanks, yeah,I found that a bit confusing, the global and santoku in the photo are 180mm/18cm on the blade length and that suits me nicely, I did ask a shop about that and they said they measure from handle to tip and not the cutting blade length but it seems it's not necessarily the standard for blade measurement, some measure the cutting length and some measure from the handle, these knives ain't cheap,I want to be in love with my first J knife, not disappointed, thanks

 

[Juna]

So absolutely personal preference but I have gyutos from 180mm to 285mm with the large majority being around 235mm to 255mm (generally considered a 240mm). The smallest one is what my wife uses and the 210s are either for traveling or because I couldn’t find what I liked in a 240. At home I usually reach for a 240 but occasionally do use the shorter ones if I am doing a quick/small prep or larger ones if really needed.

If you have enough space in your kitchen, you will eventually grow out of a 210 or into a 240 as you get more comfortable with whatever blade size you use. It kind of becomes an extension of you. For reference, my first petty was a konosuke hd 120mm and now I rarely use it as I reach for a 180mm petty or possibly a 150mm.

As mentioned above, make sure to check the actual edge length as it will vary by smith/manufacturer.

 

[fourmations]

So absolutely personal preference but I have gyutos from 180mm to 285mm with the large majority being around 235mm to 255mm (generally considered a 240mm). The smallest one is what my wife uses and the 210s are either for traveling or because I couldn’t find what I liked in a 240. At home I usually reach for a 240 but occasionally do use the shorter ones if I am doing a quick/small prep or larger ones if really needed.

If you have enough space in your kitchen, you will eventually grow out of a 210 or into a 240 as you get more comfortable with whatever blade size you use. It kind of becomes an extension of you. For reference, my first petty was a konosuke hd 120mm and now I rarely use it as I reach for a 180mm petty or possibly a 150mm.

As mentioned above, make sure to check the actual edge length as it will vary by smith/manufacturer.

Thanks, I have a good size kitchen and magnetic knife racks so storage is not an issue, it's the feel in the hand I'm thinking about, things like fine shallot cutting with a knife that long, I know it's only just over an inch longer than I'm used to but an inch makes a difference to feel, cheers

 

[Juna]

Thanks, I have a good size kitchen and magnetic knife racks so storage is not an issue, it's the feel in the hand I'm thinking about, things like fine shallot cutting with a knife that long, I know it's only just over an inch longer than I'm used to but an inch makes a difference to feel, cheers

For sure! When I said space in the kitchen, I had meant board space, not necessarily storage. Some people are cutting on a small counter against a backsplash and a 270 would end up knocking into a wall.

In regards to the feel in the hand, thats what I meant by you will grow into it. An inch can make a huge difference! It’s why I rarely grab that 285 lol. But realistically, if you have an opportunity to try some out, I would recommend doing so to get a feel. And there’s nothing wrong with using a 180 gyuto either! They will all cut and get the job done.

Edit: with BST, you are never really going to be stuck with a blade either so you can always turn it loose if it ends up being too big or too small

 

[fortheloveofmoar]

I started on a 6inch (probably 180mm) knife. Then went to 210 and not range between 210 to 240 (for gyutos) but I have smaller knives I like better for smaller tasks.

Echoing what everyone said, give it a shot, like a real go (at least 2 to 3 week) and you’ll quickly figure out if you like the length, think meh, or really dislike it. You can get some really good deals on BsT so again you don’t have to dump a lot of money in to figure out what length you like.

 

[mengwong]

Nothing wrong with going shorter. I’ve been happily splashing around the shallow end lately

https://knifejapan.com/knife-types/ko-bocho/
These and the funayuki models around 150mm might be interesting for you to explore after you’ve started with the standard 180–210mm.

 

[The Forest Ninja]

7 to 9 inches is nice.

 

[Stevem627]

I think my favorite knife ( and I have a lot of knives now) is a 200mm Eddworks, and it has a finger notch that adds to its appeal. I can hold it old school hammer grip for added length when necessary for slicing, and get almost petty like when holding in a pinch grip. I bought it to try something shorter than a typical 210 and I fell for this length.

 

[Delat]

It’s handy to have a range available. I have several 180s, a lot of 210s, and a couple 230-240s.

Probably 90% of the time these days I’ll grab a 180mm mainly because I’m only cooking for two and don’t generally have much to cut. But when I’m cooking bigger meals I’ll grab a 210.

 

[SwampDonkey]

I was always a little worried a 240 would be too big as I used to prefer 7" knives but as soon as I got my first 240 gyuto, which was actually a 245, it instantly felt comfortable and proper to me. I still like 180s, just realized 210 gyutos weren't my cup of tea and feel kinda like an awkward middle ground.

Weight also plays a big role in how big or little a knife feels. It sounds kinda counterintuitive but I feel more controlled with a slightly heavier small knife than a wispy laser that's super light. Fear not on the 210, that's a great size to start out on. You can always choke up on your grip too if you feel it's too long for detailed work while you're still getting used to it

 

[Nemo]

Don't learn to sharpen on a no name knife. The steel will very likely be a pain to sharpen and especially to deburr. It will make you feel lIke you are making less progress than you actually are.

I would have thought that 240 is closer to being ubiquitous than 210.

I went through a similar decision making process with my first knife. I ended up buying a 210 instead of a 240. Now I only have a few 210s, the rest are 240 or 270 (home use).

I think that the reason is that I use a pinch grip. My grip covers first 50-60 mm of the blade over the heel (my curled middle finger crosses the choil) so the knife is effectively that much shorter. The upside is that you get much better control of the blade in all six planes (3 of rotation and 3 of translation).

 

[refcast]

Go buy stiff cardstock, cardboard, or plastic or metal sheeting. Cut out the knife dimension in height and length and profile you want. Test it.

I've used 130-330mm as my regular knife, and size doesn't matter a whole whole bunch but smaller is just fine for cooking only for myself

 

[fortheloveofmoar]

Weight also plays a big role in how big or little a knife feels.

this also made me think of balance point. In my humble opinions, and it is still very humble having only handled maybe…20 knives or so. It is not as major as length or weight but is a contributing factor worth some observation

 

[cwk.v]

And then there is me (and some others) that own knives mostly in the 240-260mm range. Love a big knife. Started at 240s, like them. Tried some 210, which felt way too small. Tried some 250s and that was that!

 

[OnionSlicer]

180mm stainless for quick tasks, 250mm+ carbon for serious chopping.

 

[bsfsu]

I think the perfect blade length is around 90-300mm.

 

[timebard]

180mm stainless for quick tasks, 250mm+ carbon for serious chopping.

I'd add 225-230 as the happy medium do it all size, but this is a good take.

 

[Cliff]

It's ultimately a preference issue and how much space you have. I am a home cook, but I cook a lot. If it's just me, or there are small tasks, I'll reach for something small, say 180-210. I'll use a 240 for most dinner prep most of the time. If it's four or more, which happens a lot, I'll likely reach for a 270. I also tend to prefer taller knives at 210-240 and a little slimmer once they get longer.

ETA - My first Japanese knife, a Goko, was a 240. Everyone said that was the size to get. I thought it was enormous at first. It took some getting used to, but I did. I think it's worth trying a longer knife to work on knife skills, even if you ultimately decide to sell and concentrate on shorter knives.

 

[KasumiJLA]

165 to 190mm - feeling like a ninja
190 to 240mm - feeling like a samurai
240 to infinity - feeling like William Wallace

Personally I started at the beginning with smaller blades but since I used 225mm, I have way more fun! It's a question of taste, feeling and depending on the majority of the tasks to be accomplished. Anyway, no matter what length you choose, you will end up having several and rotating between them

 

[service.94107]

210 takamura is always a safe starter!

 

[Logan A.]

Be considerate of heel height as well. Knives sitting 55mm+ at the heel are going to feel much larger in use than ones under 50mm. I’ve come to enjoy slightly shorter but longer gyuto. They can feel more slicey and nimble. Given I have a pretty protein heavy diet so it’s optimal for my use-cases.

 

[Corradobrit1]

From my experience using different length gyutos from 180-247 is that the length preference is determined primarily by board real estate as well as board height (which determines the most comfortable blade height), worktop space and height of the user. In my home kitchen 245 felt unwieldy and I had little control when doing tip work. I'm 5'7" so that factors into the equation. I generally reach for 210-215 gyutos (49-51 blade height) and these offer the agility I like. My 220-230 Katos are also great but require a little more attention. I would be happy with anything that has a fairly flat profile in the sweetspot 210-230 range for push/pull cutting. The iron clad Morihei TF's and Denkas basically cover the bases.

 

[Jovidah]

My few cents...

First the harsh unpleasant truths:
-Length preferences are highly personal. While some of the benefits and downsides of going up or down in length are somewhat objective, only you can decide what you actually prefer.
-There is no easy shortcut here... the only way to figure this out for yourself is to actually try stuff... usually for a longer time.

To complicate matters further.
-There are a lot of factors that influence your perception of how a knife feels and that will make it feel longer, shorter, or easier / harder to wield. For example total weight, weight distribution / balance, height, taper, all have a significant impact. I have 270s that feel easier to wield than my 230 Wüsthof simply because they're lighter and balanced differently. Knives can 'feel' significantly longer or shorter than they really are.
-Then there's personal factors coming into play; your grip and cutting style. As others have mentioned, pinchgripping somewhat 'shortens' the knife. For rockchopping, more length generally improves the ergonomics, etc.
-Knife makers are not consistent in how they measure length. So to compare 2 extreme examples; my Masamoto KS 240 (which runs significantly long at 255) is almost exactly the same length as my Ashi Ginga 270 (which runs significantly short at around 260).
-Over time your skills and preferences are likely to change. This could go either way... but for me things started feeling 'smaller' over time. A knife that feels large now might feel wimpy a year from now. You might also change cutting techniques. So your own preferences are unlikely to remain completely static.

The more objective upsides/downsides:
-Shorter knives will generally be 'easier' to use from the start since everything is just extending less far from your hand.
-For the same reason it's a bit easier to use the tip accurately on a shorter knife; a longer knife exaggerates the movement a bit. But this can be mitigated; you get used to more length over time, and there's always the option of crimping up on the blade a bit and/or putting your index finger on top of the spine. Or just relying on your guide hand.
-Shorter knives are lighter for a given grind / geometry / height. Though whether or not this is a good or a bad thing is a personal preference thing.
-Shorter knives are a bit more nimble. For this reason you usually see even the most hardcore 270 gyuto enthusiasts breaking out honesukis and petties when they're doing boning work or trimming meats.

-Board / kitchen size. If for whatever reason you're really restricted in available space / board size (they usually go hand in hand; people get small boards because they just don't have the space in the kitchen) then larger knives can become problematic. Although one shouldn't overstate this. I don't really have a problem using a 270 on a board that's just 35 cm deep. Or a 240 on a 25 cm deep board. But you do want to make sure you're not poking into any bowls on the other side of it...

-Longer knives are outright more efficient because you can put more product under the knife. It also makes it easier to cut piles of anything, for example when you're doing a brunoise.
-Longer knives make it easier to cut larger and taller products.
-Longer knives are more ergonomical if you don't cut straight down (so rockchopping or guillotine & glide), because the angle the knife makes in relation to the board becomes lower.
-Longer knives make better slicers (less back & forth sawing).
-Longer knives give the maker more room to work with, so it's easier to make a useful profile.

I probably forgot some things. Personally I started off with some 200 stuff...after long deliberation went up to 240 with the same doubts as you have... then after a while bought some 210...and at this point I'm exploring 270s. In the end it's worth having stuff in different lengths. The 270s are great when I'm making a salad with big bulbs of fennel, but when you're just cutting a shallot and a few cloves of garlic it doesn't give any added benefit.

 

[henkle]

Don't overthink it. Get them all.

 

[pavhav]

When I first became interested enough in moving past my Wusthofs, I thought anything over 210mm was overkill. Then the desire to try the work of certain makers expanded my range, and I was surprised by what I became comfortable, even enamored with. One of my favorite knives is a 279 x 63mm, old school (higher beveled) Birgersson. So well balanced, and proportioned it feels more agile than many others. As others have already said: there are many factors that contribute to this; you may well be surprised yourself.
I've honestly never quite understood the counter depth issue. Unless you're working on something customized, a counter top runs around 26" deep. I usually hold my knives at a bit of a diagonal in relation to the counter, which expands the range beyond even that, so I feel anything less than a wakizashi should fit just fine.

 

[Jovidah]

Counter depth issues result not so much from lack of depth (like you said, standard counterdepths are usually at least 60 cm / 24 inches in even the smallest of kitchens), but from a lack of total kitchen space. If you have only a tiny total area it often results in having to use the space behind your cutting board as a place to put things.