Interesting! I've never heard of that. I have a smooth leather strop, no compound. My current knife I can cut about half way down paper towel straight off the stone. I will have to try stropping next time. I'm very interesting in MDF. Thank you for sharing that. Maybe that's what I'm missing. Also, what kind of steel are those knives?
Burr removal
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What kind of steel are the knives made of you treat in this way?
The nakiri is aogami super
The gyuto is a western steel.
The MDF for me gives the same result as the blue sponge from Jon (Japanese knife imports). Only difference: it’s easier the use because of the bigger surface to work on.
Don’t know if it damages the edge in any way, but I like the results I’m getting from it. You keep a lot of the teeth. I don’t like leather because the edge loses too much of the aggresion of my stone.
These are just my findings in my journey of sharpening. What works for me might not work for someone else.
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Thanks! What kind of Western steel with the gyuto?
The nakiri is Aogami super and the gyuto is a softer, western steel. According to meesterslijpers.nl: 56rhc. I think it’s higher. More 58-59.
Link to western knife: https://www.meesterslijpers.nl/porsche-chroma-301-koksmes-p18-20cm?search=Porsche &page=2
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Thanks again
Do you happen to know the nakiri's hardness?
Note: I can not do this super consistently, atleast not in this way. I can get my knives sharp and ready for food. But deburring, good deburring is still challenging.
I'm surprised I can cut half way. I'm getting there. I have noticed though that getting my knife that sharp, there isn't a huge difference in cutting food than there is from just my regular sharpness. I suppose getting paper towel cutting sharp is more for showing off lol but I still want to get there
Yeah, knives are made to cut food. Not paper towel. But no one can tell me it’s not satisfying to see a knife go through a paper towel
Also, edge sharpening is only a small piece of the whole sharpening. Haven’t tried thinning, refinishing…
So much more to learn and get better at!
For now I’m glad I can get knives sharp.
I'm working on thinning my knives each time I sharpen. I'm not too great at thinning yet but I understand behind the edge thickness is just as important, if not the most important part to having a great edgeYeah, knives are made to cut food. Not paper towel. But no one can tell me it’s not satisfying to see a knife go through a paper towel
Also, edge sharpening is only a small piece of the whole sharpening. Haven’t tried thinning, refinishing…
So much more to learn and get better at!
For now I’m glad I can get knives sharp.
Jovidah
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It's not that it makes the edge better, it's that it makes cutting performance better, as cutting performance is for a lot of items determined more by thinness behind the edge than by edge quality.
A knife that's really thin behind the edge can still cut hard dense ingredients like carrots really well even when the edge itself is dulled. Whereas a knife that's thick behind the edge will struggle no matter how good the edge (you get carrots that 'crack'). Edge quality shows more on stuff like tomato skins and slicing meat.
A knife that's really thin behind the edge can still cut hard dense ingredients like carrots really well even when the edge itself is dulled. Whereas a knife that's thick behind the edge will struggle no matter how good the edge (you get carrots that 'crack'). Edge quality shows more on stuff like tomato skins and slicing meat.
I struggle with knowing how thin to make it. I know if it's too thin, the edge will break and chip much easier
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You're dealing with very different steels, requiring a very different sharpening procedure. The nakiri shouldn't be too problematic in deburring, supposing you deburr by light edge leading strokes after every stone in the progression. There should be no need for any stropping after the last stone, say 4k or even higher. Giving its hardness stropping on MDF could be rather risky.
I don't know the Porsche Chroma 301, and information about the steel is strongly contradictory. If it is a common Japanese moly, I would end at 2k and deburring by edge trailing strokes alone should work. If it happens to be German soft stainless, don't go as far.
The main idea of deburring is careful abrading. No violent breaking away, as the edge behind it would terribly suffer. This is only different with fine, hard, simple carbon steel. See Jon's ultimate deburring with an abrasive sponge.
As for stropping in general, it might help to strop one side, and remove the moved debris by abrading with a stone, and do the same the other way around. Stropping both sides for burr removal only works with soft carbon steel. And accept some edge rounding.
I would suggest you to have a look at what the MDF actually does to your edge. Use a loupe. I find the extra bite it delivers rather worrying. Please don't do it with the hard Aogami Super. I guess breakages at a microlevel may occur.
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With your soft stainless serious chipping won't occur. Microchipping only due to carbide breaking out when overly polished. Or damage after a burr breaking off. No extra steel behind the edge may prevent it.
Soft stainless won't break but fold.
As for the thickness you may aim for, think 0.2mm behind the edge, where the former shoulders used to be. That's about the half of a Wüsthof OOTB.
The easiest is to look at the bevel's width. 1mm is rather large.
Until I can get the measuring tool, I forget the name, how would you suggest getting a good BTE thickness?
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As said, by looking at the remaining bevel.
Jovidah
I'll make you a sponsor offer you can't refuse...
If you can still see the bevel, you can still go thinner... 
My bad. I took it as though 1mm is big. Not as a way to measure. Thank you. I can see the bevel, but not much.
Wow, I always thought you should still be able to see it. Thank you. I have some more thinning to do hahaIf you can still see the bevel, you can still go thinner...
Jovidah
I'll make you a sponsor offer you can't refuse...
It also depends on what you're using it for... for example I never thinned my Wüsthof because... its role in my kitchen is to be the axe that gets all the abusive jobs. That's what it does fairly well; no point trying to turn a pickup truck into a racecar. So there I don't necessarily mind if I can see a decent sized bevel.
But for knives tuned for performance I generally go for at most a sliver of bevel.
If knives are proper thin, stuff like edge angles also seems to have less of a performance impact.
But for knives tuned for performance I generally go for at most a sliver of bevel.
If knives are proper thin, stuff like edge angles also seems to have less of a performance impact.
I've seen completely dull knives slice right through most foods just because it was thinned a lot. Even saw a thin, dull knife carve wood
Is that actually a problem though, if the user likes the cutting performance and if the breakages remain at the microlevel?
Please don't take this post as confrontational. It is not meant to be, and I am trying to learn from you if you are willing to engage.
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If the breakages remain at the microlevel, that's indeed the question. Remember, it's a hard steel, and quite charged. I wouldn't take the risk. There are plenty other, safer ways to get the edge as biting as you like. It's Aogami Super after all. Normally sharpened, with perhaps some jumps in the progression, will afford quite an aggressive edge. For edge stability, I like to start AS relatively coarse, say at 500. A trick we got from Mr Martell. From there, I could imagine jumping to 2 and 4k and not staying too long with them.
Another problem I see in possible breakages is with the next sharpening. Sharpening is applying a lateral force. Thin, hard, probably asymmetric edges' weak point. Not sure those breakages will remain at the microlevel. And if they do: are you going to sharpen them out?
Hmm hadn’t really thought about the risk of microchipping. Don’t have a loupe or something like that.. Thanks for the heads up.
The porsche was only sharpened till 2k.
I’ll try my denim strop again. Maybe because my stone-deburring has improved, i’ll like that result more. The microconvexity might also help.
I finally got myself a Teruyasu Fujiwara nashiji santoku with shirogami #1 white steel thanks to a very generous person on this site.
I'm about to give it a sharpen in a day or 2. Any tips or anything I should know before I do?
I'm about to give it a sharpen in a day or 2. Any tips or anything I should know before I do?
myguidingmoonlight
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For reference, on the extreme end I consider this bevel size to be thin behind the edge. Around 0.1-0.2mm eyeballing it.
On the other end, if the bevel is visible from far away - then it's a good indicator that the edge is thick. Not a bad thing for a beater like this Vnox, but not if you want to maximize cutting performance.
On the other end, if the bevel is visible from far away - then it's a good indicator that the edge is thick. Not a bad thing for a beater like this Vnox, but not if you want to maximize cutting performance.
It's much quicker to form a burr and to remove it.
You need to barely see the bevel up close right?
