chinesse cheap sharpenning stones, works? for a beginner?

[camilorosso]

I must start that obviously there is nothing like the stones of recognized brands to sharpen, but for now I have been practicing with the set of Chinese stones that are very cheap and supposedly bring a diversity of grains.

The truth is that within my inexperience I have achieved good edges, since when cutting meat or vegetables the edge is very noticeable (I am still analyzing to buy my good quality stones) but I wanted to post this topic, to know if they have had experience with these kits Chinese, how reliable are their measurements of the size of the grains, etc., good edges can be achieved, there is a lot of difference with the stones of well-known brands.

The idea is to use these kits as basic stones (I already have it) while I buy the pro stones, I go through the entire range of shapton glass.

But I would like to hear your opinions osbr these Chinese stones and very very cheap.

 

[chiffonodd]

They may not be super high quality in terms of feedback, mud/slurry formation, dishing resistance, etc etc but my guess is that the grit rating is reasonably accurate.

 

[ptolemy]

Should be fine for basic work, learning how to use, on a cheaper knives. But, if you have higher end knives, and know how to sharpen, you should def consider more reliable products with more consistent performance

 

[Jovidah]

I used a set of very similar looking made in China cheap stones that likely came from the same factory. Compared to J-knives they were rougher than Japanese stones I used with the same number on them, and simply sharpened slower, had worse feedback, and especially in the higher grits they were often very soft so you'd very easily cut into them. You can sharpen on them but especially when you're a beginner with imperfect technique they're actually kinda ****. Would very much recommend against them; I think you're better off just getting 1-2 good Japanese stones than this stuff.
By the way you don't need full ranges to get good edges. Just a handful of stones should be enough.

 

[Benuser]

An experienced sharpener can probably use any abrasive. You must have heard jokes about people using concrete. Not so with a beginner: you will benefit from stones with a lot of feedback, both auditory and tactile, and above all: being fast. If an experienced sharpener easily keeps a steady angle during 50 strokes, a beginner may hope for 5 ones. Important as it isn't a good idea to start with very coarse stones, as they are likely to cause damage if things go wrong. I would start with the best stone you may afford. One in the 800-1000 range and one around 2k. Finer and coarser stones will come later.

 

[blokey]

They work, but it is worth it to invest in a good single 1000 stone like shapton or Cerax.

 

[cotedupy]

I did a review of basically these exact stones a while back. The long and short of it was pretty much what people have said above...

If you can sharpen alright on this kind of thing then better Japanese waterstones will be a doddle by comparison.

https://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/threads/no-name-amazon-stones-review.55923/

 

[Legion74]

I'm not sure how much that kit costs, but I would rather have a couple of hones of better quality than a whole kit of meh. You don't need an 8k for knives, you dont need the flattening stone (wet/dry sandpaper on glass will work better), you dont need that cheap strop and you dont need the honing guide.

I'd suggest a Shapton Glass 500, and one other finer stone to finish with would take care of most everyones knife honing needs. You will probably get more consistent and better results.

 

[Kawa]

I do suggest a flattening stone though.
Those types, as shown in the picture, just work, are cheap and less of a fuzz compared to sticking sandpaper on a glass plate.
In the long run, that sandpaper and a piece of glass is even more expensive.

Im not saying 'get a Chinese knock-off', it is probably too scratchy,
But a 220-gritt from Naniwa for 15,- is a good investment.

SiC powder is only needed fotrthose stones that glaze when you use the above style flattener, which are not many stones.

 

[r0bz]

I do suggest a flattening stone though.
Those types, as shown in the picture, just work, are cheap and less of a fuzz compared to sticking sandpaper on a glass plate.
In the long run, that sandpaper and a piece of glass is even more expensive.

Im not saying 'get a Chinese knock-off', it is probably too scratchy,
But a 220-gritt from Naniwa for 15,- is a good investment.

SiC powder is only needed fotrthose stones that glaze when you use the above style flattener, which are not many stones.

but don't you need to flatten the flattening stone?
with what do you do that ?

 

[Kawa]

SiC powder, once in a very huge while.

The flattening stone is so hard compared to the sharpening stones, it hardly wears.

Turn the sharpening stone and the flattening stone regularly while flattening, so you use different pressure points. Also use different motions in a session (up-and-down, circles, the-figur-8) This way you prevent irregular wear as much as possible.

Ive flattened it once, but was it needed?

 

[r0bz]

Ive flattened it once, but was it needed?

i don't know you tell me

 

[Jovidah]

IMO the cheap flattening stones suck ass. Wished I had just skipped straight to the atoma...

 

[Kawa]

I would say no, was not needed for a sharpening stone to get flat again.

Maybe if you do it daily for many many years

 

[Kawa]

IMO the cheap flattening stones suck ass. Wished I had just skipped straight to the atoma...

Ofcourse,
That Mercedes is way better once you drive it.
But up untill that point, your Opel Corsa does the trick aswell, and not in a horrible way

 

[Jovidah]

I found the Naniwa flattening stones to be more like a bzicycle with flat tires and a broken chain. Horrible. Worked fine for the first few times but lost its bite and glazed over after a while. And then you can essentially go and flatten your flattening stone...

 

[r0bz]

IMO the cheap flattening stones suck ass. Wished I had just skipped straight to the atoma...

do you flatten coarse stones also ?
i have a 100 grit stone i want to flatten but i am worried the atoma will get F#$%# preety quick
i have an atoma 140

 

[Benuser]

IMO the cheap flattening stones suck ass. Wished I had just skipped straight to the atoma...

Exactly my experience as well. That said, the Naniwa flatteners are far from cheap, and are likely to loose particles. A thorough rinsing is needed if you want to avoid a cruel contamination. Which means as well that the slurry you're raising when flattening can't be used. No such a problem with an Atoma. You may use the 140 with confidence on the finest stones. I use a fresh 140 on the Junpaku 8k and the Shapton 12k.

 

[r0bz]

Exactly my experience as well. That said, the Naniwa flatteners are far from cheap, and are likely to loose particles. A thorough rinsing is needed if you want to avoid a cruel contamination. Which means as well that the slurry you're raising when flattening can't be used. No such a problem with an Atoma. You may use the 140 with confidence on the finest stones. I use a fresh 140 on the Junpaku 8k and the Shapton 12k.

@Benuser i remember you said you use this glass flattener to flatten coarse stones does it work good ?

 

[Jovidah]

do you flatten coarse stones also ?
i have a 100 grit stone i want to flatten but i am worried the atoma will get F#$%# preety quick
i have an atoma 140

My most coarse stone is a Naniwa 400; that one goes fine with the Atoma 140. No experience with trying to do coarser stones than that.
On finer stones I either just rub it with a coarser stone or start with the Atoma and then give it a rub with a coarser stone (so for example you grind down your 3k with your 1k, just make sure to wash it clean afterwards if you do this).

 

[r0bz]

My most coarse stone is a Naniwa 400; that one goes fine with the Atoma 140. No experience with trying to do coarser stones than that.
On finer stones I either just rub it with a coarser stone or start with the Atoma and then give it a rub with a coarser stone (so for example you grind down your 3k with your 1k, just make sure to wash it clean afterwards if you do this).

i am searching for something to flatten my 100/240 stone
for the 800 stone i flatten with atoma 140

 

[Legion74]

i am searching for something to flatten my 100/240 stone
for the 800 stone i flatten with atoma 140

The grit of the stone wont effect its difficulty to flatten, it's the hardness of the binder. The hardness of the stone is what pulls off or rounds the diamonds on a plate.

I can't see any synthetic water stones causing your Atoma a problem. Just don't use it on a Norton India, or something like that.

 

[M1k3]

The grit of the stone wont effect its difficulty to flatten, it's the hardness of the binder. The hardness of the stone is what pulls off or rounds the diamonds on a plate.

I can't see any synthetic water stones causing your Atoma a problem. Just don't use it on a Norton India, or something like that.

Or Shapton Pro 120

 

[Legion74]

Or Shapton Pro 120

Those are ceramic, yeah?

 

[Kawa]

The grit of the stone wont effect its difficulty to flatten, it's the hardness of the binder. The hardness of the stone is what pulls off or rounds the diamonds on a plate.

I can't see any synthetic water stones causing your Atoma a problem. Just don't use it on a Norton India, or something like that.

I think he is meaning: I'm afraid I ruin my atoma 140 on a 100/240 stone. As in: wears extremely fast.
Not impossible to flatten due to hardness compared to finishers.


And that's true right, from what I read? A fresh atoma 140 on a 220 gritt stone isn't so fresh anymore after a lapping?

 

[r0bz]

I think he is meaning: I'm afraid I ruin my atoma 140 on a 100/240 stone. As in: wears extremely fast.
Not impossible to flatten due to hardness compared to finishers.


And that's true right, from what I read? A fresh atoma 140 on a 220 gritt stone isn't so fresh anymore after a lapping?

yes thats what i meant i am afraid to ruin the atoma very fast by lapping a 100/240 stone

 

[Kawa]

So when you flatten a coarse stone, yo will always scratch (wear) the medium.
Ofcourse the hardness of the medium makes this less or worse.

So every flattener (the medium) you use will wear fast when using it on a coarse stone.

Thats why SiC powder is great for this kind of work.
You have a glass plate or flat tile that is part of your medium and it doesnt matter that it wears!, you replace it once its hollow for another cheap one.
Also, due to the loose gritt (the SiC powder), you can easily refresh the grinding medium.

Any kind of normal flattener will wear fast or loose its aggresiveness if used on a too coarse stone.


Or wait, there are these 500,- flatterners with the stars/motives on it. Nanohone flatteners I believe. I dont know how these hold up (well, they will wear eventualy..) I haven't used them, and with the recent energyprices in Europe I don't think I ever will

 

[r0bz]

So when you flatten a coarse stone, yo will always scratch (wear) the medium.
Ofcourse the hardness of the medium makes this less or worse.

So every flattener (the medium) you use will wear fast when using it on a coarse stone.

Thats why SiC powder is great for this kind of work.
You have a glass plate or flat tile that is part of your medium and it doesnt matter that it wears!, you replace it once its hollow for another cheap one.
Also, due to the loose gritt (the SiC powder), you can easily refresh the grinding medium.

Any kind of normal flattener will wear fast or loose its aggresiveness if used on a too coarse stone.


Or wait, there are these 500,- flatterners with the stars/motives on it. Nanohone flatteners I believe. I dont know how these hold up (well, they will wear eventualy..) I haven't used them, and with the recent energyprices in Europe I don't think I ever will

they are very expensive the nanohone

 

[Vadoche]

Guess they can have a pass, but they won't allow you to truly push your skill and understanding of edges as the feedback, hardness etc... is just so crap. Money better spent on stones that will last longer and allow you to progress further with your technique. It's kind of like an instrument, if you invest good money, it won't be lost most likely.

 

[GeneParmesan]

A stone that I like a lot for my european styled knives is my chinese made sintered rubine stone.
It removes material fast enough. Due to the manufacturer it should have a grid of about 3000.
It removes material fast enough to skip a 1000 grid stone beforehand.
The feedback is kind of meh.
What makes this stone shine, though is that it soaks absoloutly no water and has no problem with clogging.
After use I simply take the stone and some soap, remove any grey stains from the surface, pat the stone dry and put it away without thinking about drying.
Together with a leather strop (this one is 50cm, so don't be confused about the size of the stone) this is a very nice combination.
Right now I feel no need to use my Naniwa Professional Stones.
Although they may have better feedback and may lead to better results.

The stone has a very smooth surface with a lot of very fine grooves that go along the stone.