Choosing a laser

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GorillaGrunt

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Most of my gyuto tend towards the heavier side; the only proper laser I have is the Shibata Kashima R2, though I have a Martell in O1 that is thinner than most of the rest and a Takeda. I’d like to try another laser - should I go with the tried and true Ginga? There don’t seem to be any Yusuke Extra Thin available right now; Tadatsuna seems like a dark horse candidate with its staunch enthusiasts; Suisin IH is kind of expensive - are they worth it? Is Konosuke HD steel that great to justify the price — although the profile of the HD2 looks a lot better suited to me than that of the GS. Unless I get the pointy GS, which wouldn’t be too different from the Kashima...

Input from laser users would be appreciated! Thanks.
 
What size?
210 Takamura R2 is hard to beat, but you already knew that.
 
Here's a helpful thread:

https://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/...ga-ss-konosuke-hd2-suisin-inox-honyaki.21544/

And a good quote from it:
daveb said:
You could put all three in a box, close your eyes and pick one - And you would have a great knife.
Click to expand...
Definitely true :)

Personally, I like Tadatsuna a bit more than Ginga but not for quantifiable reasons... Just a preference. They're both nice knives--and very similar. Same height at the heel (48-49mm). Slight differences in profile: Tad’s spine is straighter for longer; Ginga’s tip is a tad pointier. If you’re using it for a lot of delicate/fine work, this might give the tip the scales to the Ginga.
(I can't comment on yusuke or suisin since I haven't tried either.)
 
Just have to second what JaVa said. The Takmura R2 is a go-to knife in my block. At $180, it's a steal. Yesterday I grabbed it for a bunch of board prep, then sliced 15 pounds of half-frozen venison steak for jerky. Went to touch it up before I put it away and it was still razor sharp. A 150-gram western that holds a remarkable edge. If you want wa, the Kurosaki AS is also quite nice for a few bucks more. Similar profile and feel. Very different look.
 
vlad said:
If you want wa, the Kurosaki AS is also quite nice for a few bucks more. Similar profile and feel. Very different look.
Click to expand...

And I had forgotten to ask about Kurosaki — the thickness measurements on his AS and R2 could be lasers, wasn’t sure about how they’re ground though.
 
P.S.
What size you going for?
This will make a difference. For Ginga and Tad, 210 is 43mm tall; 240 is 48-49mm tall.
 
Kashima is as laser as your gonna get. Kono HD’s are a waste of money at thier current price. Taks are great for the money.
 
I had a Yusuke extra thin but didnt keep it, too thin for me, it had too much flex.
I tried a few lasers, Tadatsuna, Yusuke, Konosuke W#2 and HD2, Gesshin Ginga and Ashi Ginga. I now have 210 and 240 Ashi Gingas that I thinned the handles and ferrules on, I prefer a narrow handle and a narrow ferrule on the sides tapering towards the blade, fits my grip better.
The SIH seemed too expensive and I didn't care for the exposed machi and the screened on kanji.
So for me it came down to handle preference and I wanted w#2 steel.
If I liked bigger handles I would have Gesshin gingas.
Still on the look out for and older HD with the long narrow handle.
 
I also consider the 210 (221mm) KS a laser, fits right in the middle of the 210 (206mm) ginga and the 240 (238mm) ginga. The KS has a very thin grind and is almost completely symmetrical with a bit of convexing on both sides. A thinner grind than the ginga. The spine above the heel is 2.4mm. And, it has a pointy tip for detail work, really like mine.
 
Anybody know anything about the Takamura Chromax? The composition seems to be pretty much SKD(12)/A2, but listed above the working hardness for that steel. I trust Takamura but not who’s selling them.
 
GorillaGrunt said:
Anybody know anything about the Takamura Chromax? The composition seems to be pretty much SKD(12)/A2, but listed above the working hardness for that steel. I trust Takamura but not who’s selling them.
Click to expand...

I like mine. I work in a restaurant. Only advice is it can use a light stropping and/or polishing of the edge. And the choil needs a light sanding. Otherwise it's a great knife! Besides the very little work the choil on mine needed, the fit and finish is great on it.
 
I agree with Chicago that the shibata kashima is as laser as you can get. If I were to get another laser, besides what I have. It would be something in monosteel. I just like the idea of a studio laser, not that it's necessary. It's just how I would approach it moving forward, after trying some lasers. My favorite laser is the kippington hook grind. It performs like a laser with food release that beats most workhorses and it's monosteel to give some sturdiness. It has a little flex at the tip, but that's because it thins out early and dramatically.
 
If I were on the market for a laser I’d be very interested in the Ikazuchi. Just look at it’s choil shot. Nothing much can get thinner then that behind the edge or otherwise.

I can’t understand why it get’s so little attention in the laser side of things.
 
I've been wantig to try a Ikazuchi for a while, just not too many come up on bst, I think only 2 came up for the last 6 months.
 
GorillaGrunt said:
Anybody know anything about the Takamura Chromax? The composition seems to be pretty much SKD(12)/A2, but listed above the working hardness for that steel. I trust Takamura but not who’s selling them.
Click to expand...

Not really. A2/SKD12 is listed here as 63-65 HRC with air hardening. If Takamura quench with oil and/or cryo, that could add a couple points. Yoshikane's SKD12 knives are listed as ~64 HRC.

I have some Takamura Chromax knives that were purchased from Hida Tool (they no longer stock them) and having sharpened them side-by-side with a Takamura Pro gyuto I have no reason to doubt the claimed hardness.

Functionally, it's not that different from Aogami Super.
 
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I loved my Takamura ... now use my Blazen 240 SG2 ... very similar slightly thicker at the spine and better finish. But double the price.

The only time i really didnt love the takamura was every time i noticed it wasn't a 240.... and when dicing up dried fruits - my index finger would get sore. But it made sense as the knife to use because of the insane edge life and absolutely mashing it into the board repeatedly.
 
I own Takamura r2 and im totally satisfied. I use it for precise cuts only tho
 
Someone mentioned the ryusen blazen sg2, id really love to have an honest review on it
 
nopomo said:
I have no reason to doubt the claimed hardness.
Click to expand...

It wasn’t that so much as whether they were overhardened and brittle or otherwise suboptimal. Not what I’d expect from the maker, but definitely what I’d expect from the retailer. Hearing some personal experience, as well as that other retailers used to stock them, certainly helps.

I’ve heard of Blazen as well as Takamura Pro described like Kochi, thin behind the edge and very balanced in terms of wedging vs food release, neither workhorse nor laser, but I have none of these yet.

Thanks Lucas for the comment on Tak R2 edge retention; I’m currently thinking Takamura 210, Ikazuchi (which I had also forgotten about) 240, and Tad 270.
 
Alexec said:
Seven words, yet almost all i wanted to know. Sg2 steel on a workhorse works good?( Compared to sld, zdp, even carbons)?
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It depends on what you mean by workhorse. I think of workhorse as something that can deal with a wide variety of tasks while not being damaged, so I dont think SG2, ZDP, or similar steels make sense. They lack the toughness and are often too hard. But they have great edge retention.

GorillaGrunt said:
It wasn’t that so much as whether they were overhardened and brittle or otherwise suboptimal. Not what I’d expect from the maker, but definitely what I’d expect from the retailer. Hearing some personal experience, as well as that other retailers used to stock them, certainly helps.

I’ve heard of Blazen as well as Takamura Pro described like Kochi, thin behind the edge and very balanced in terms of wedging vs food release, neither workhorse nor laser, but I have none of these yet.

Thanks Lucas for the comment on Tak R2 edge retention; I’m currently thinking Takamura 210, Ikazuchi (which I had also forgotten about) 240, and Tad 270.
Click to expand...

I wouldnt describe the blazen or takamura pro like the kochi, but they do share the thin behind the edge and thicker at the spine thing. Also, really nice distal taper. The wide bevel design on the kochi has better food release. Not quite workhorse like, but not a laser either. It feels like a forgotten about type of knife, as people only really talk about lasers and workhorses, but these mid-weight high performance knives are work serious consideration as well in my opinion.
 
JBroida said:
It depends on what you mean by workhorse. I think of workhorse as something that can deal with a wide variety of tasks while not being damaged, so I dont think SG2, ZDP, or similar steels make sense. They lack the toughness and are often too hard. But they have great edge retention.



I wouldnt describe the blazen or takamura pro like the kochi, but they do share the thin behind the edge and thicker at the spine thing. Also, really nice distal taper. The wide bevel design on the kochi has better food release. Not quite workhorse like, but not a laser either. It feels like a forgotten about type of knife, as people only really talk about lasers and workhorses, but these mid-weight high performance knives are work serious consideration as well in my opinion.
Click to expand...
To be clear the "workhorse" word in my mind describes a knife that stands next to me on my shift for any medium task and can afford some beating without losses
 
Yeah...when we use the term workhorse the way you’re using it there’s a sliding scale aka how durable would you like your knife to be. Gesshin Uraku is crazy durable for instance, kochi due to a thin edge isn’t. Then there’s a lot of stuff in the middle. I’d reach for the Uraku to rock chop parsley, other herbs, or just rougher work over a kochi. Not because I couldn’t accomplish the task with the kochi but rather such thin edge requires a lighter touch.
 
The Konosuke GS+ I believe is SLD, I’ve had no reactivity in about a years worth of use (240) it’s definitely a laser and comes with a Khii chestnut handle (stock) so that’s a plus... I have an HD2 210 and prefer it’s geometry slightly more but it’s literally splitting hairs. Don’t think you could go wrong with either. The HD2 steel feels a little closer to carbon on the stones but I guess it depends on what you’re expecting from edge retention, I feel like the HD is a little better in that regard as well... The price to performance of the GS is a bit better as they’re considerably less expensive and more readily available....
 
ared715 said:
The Konosuke GS+ I believe is SLD, I’ve had no reactivity in about a years worth of use (240) it’s definitely a laser and comes with a Khii chestnut handle (stock) so that’s a plus... I have an HD2 210 and prefer it’s geometry slightly more but it’s literally splitting hairs. Don’t think you could go wrong with either. The HD2 steel feels a little closer to carbon on the stones but I guess it depends on what you’re expecting from edge retention, I feel like the HD is a little better in that regard as well... The price to performance of the GS is a bit better as they’re considerably less expensive and more readily available....
Click to expand...
Hd2 steel?
 
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