Convince me it's a good idea (or terrible) to reshape my Sugimoto #6 Cleaver

[slee87]

I bought the Sugi #6 as an upgrade path to my CCK 1303 a few years ago, but I found the Japanese interpretation to be thicker than I want.

So I kind of want to thin the front to be extremely slicey, and maybe thicken the back to be choppy enough to handle cutting straight through chicken bones (to do, for example, a traditional presentation of "white cut chicken" that does indeed cut through bones, and not just joints).

I have no power tools - just DMT XXC thru XXF and some wet/dry sand paper.

So... should I reshape it? Or cut my losses and put it up on B/S/T? Do I just want a more typical, softer, Chinese-made cleaver that I can reshape more easily?

 

[kpham12]

I have a bunch of Sugimotos. I really like them. That being said, modifying a Sugimoto#6 to be thicker in the back and thinner in the front would be a lot of work. I’ve thinned a couple of mine in the front to be better at detail work, but the back end is not thick enough for chicken bones and thickening up the back would necessitate removing a lot of metal which would possibly change the profile. You could sharpen the back at a higher angle, but that doesn’t guarantee no chipping unless your technique is really on point. Sugimoto #7 is designed for chopping chicken bones with the back, but even then, your technique has to be very good to avoid chips and you’ll have to thin the front to make it a better slicer. Otherwise, it’s ok at both tasks, but great at neither.

I recommend a cheap stainless cleaver from your local Asian supermarket. I bought my mom one from Kiwi brand and she uses it often for Hainanese chicken rice.

 

[slee87]

Ok, what if I just want to optimize for pure slicing and effortless drop through food, ignoring the chicken bone aspect (I have other knives for that anyway)?

Am I better off with a cleaver with thinner stock? Again, seeking guidance on if I just bought the wrong upgrade, and thinking through my use cases now.

 

[tostadas]

I don't believe thinner stock makes a cleaver better for slicing. You can simply thin behind the edge. Do you have a pair of calipers to get a sense of what the current grind thickness is like?

 

[slee87]

I do not. My hope was general guidance from someone who was experienced with high end cleavers.

To speak in experiential terms, I can slide through a whole kabocha squash or peel the skin off a butternut squash with a cck. The sugi wedges on a kabocha, so I need to go for it with a bigger swing.

Can the sugi ever approach that with a profile adjustment, or is it the wrong use case?

 

[tostadas]

I do not. My hope was general guidance from someone who was experienced with high end cleavers.

To speak in experiential terms, I can slice throught a whole kabocha squash or peel the skin off a butternut squash with a cck. The sugi wedges on a kabocha, so I need to go for it with a bigger swing.

Can the sugi ever approach that with a profile adjustment, or is it the wrong use case?

Profile (curvature of the edge), or grind? 2 different things. Changing the amount of curve of the cutting edge will do nothing to improve wedging in a squash.

 

[slee87]

Profile (curvature of the edge), or grind? 2 different things. Changing the amount of curve of the cutting edge will do nothing to improve wedging in a squash.

Grind, not belly

 

[Nemo]

Can the sugi ever approach that with a profile adjustment, or is it the wrong use case?

As @tostadas suggested, this could be achieved with a grind adjustment (rather than a profile adjustment). Depending on how much steel needs to be removed, this could be a big job.

Probably bigger than it's worth, although it would teach you quite a bit about knife geometry.

Are you familiar with any kind of knife thinning? If not, a wholesale change of a grind may be pretty ambitious for your first go at it.

Can you post choil shots of the 2 cleavers? This might give us an idea of how much work you have in front of you.

 

[slee87]

Sugi on the left, cck 1303 on the right

Image from the front

 

[Pie]

Sugi on the left, cck 1303 on the right

Image from the front

Unless we’re talking power tools, I’d probably bail on the idea. That’s a hell of a lot of metal to remove by stone.

Of course it can be done, but we’re talking millimetres of thickness across a pretty big surface area. Personally my steadiness and patience would be insufficient.

 

[HumbleHomeCook]

For context, yesterday I worked on a 165mm nakiri and just from the shinogi line down to the edge. I was using a coarse Crystolon SiC stone. Now, admittedly, my hands give me trouble but it took me a good hour or more to remove maybe 2/10ths of a mm 5mm above the edge. I didn't keep close tabs but it was around there in both time and material.

 

[blokey]

I think the problem is not thinning, but your typical sugimoto is not thick enough in the edge to do chopping. you will need move the grind up couple mm then thin the front.

Edit: I see Kpham12 already address the problem, I'd say if you can go for something like a CCK 1101 if you want a larger cleaver, it's kind of a shame there are not much high end Chinese made Chinese cleavers you can buy in US. For Japanese stuff, Sakai Kikumori Gokujyo is very well made and cheaper than Sugimoto, and I think it has a better slicer grind.

 

[drrayeye]

You might find this Reddit user review interesting:

 

[slee87]

Yep, I've seen that review.

I've already tried thinning, but put a pause on that project pending feedback here.

This is a cleaver that I sold briefly with @kpham12 on reddit (presuming the similar user handles aren't a coincidence). He pointed out to me that it had a left hand bias (steering to the right) so I refunded him and we traded back. I was able to correct it to my own satisfaction, and after that success, wondered if I could modify it further.

After reading this thread, I'm going to accept that I shouldn't do a dedicated thinning. I'll continue using it as is, and may consider putting it up for sale again in the future. And as I sharpen, I'll focus a bit on more on the front to modify the grind over time.

 

[kpham12]

Yep, I've seen that review.

I've already tried thinning, but put a pause on that project pending feedback here.

This is a cleaver that I sold briefly with @kpham12 on reddit (presuming the similar user handles aren't a coincidence). He pointed out to me that it had a left hand bias (steering to the right) so I refunded him and we traded back. I was able to correct it to my own satisfaction, and after that success, wondered if I could modify it further.

After reading this thread, I'm going to accept that I shouldn't do a dedicated thinning. I'll continue using it as is, and may consider putting it up for sale again in the future. And as I sharpen, I'll focus a bit on more on the front to modify the grind over time.

I remember, it came with that cool leather sheath!