De-Burring 101...again :)

Japanese Knives - by Tokushu Knife
Kitchen Knife Forums

Help Support Kitchen Knife Forums:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
I have always been partial to Wranglers myself but the funny thing is you can't buy them in Australia! If I told you how much Levi's cost here I bet you would puke!! :D
 
Dave,

Is the technique you use for deburring + sharpening + wire edge removal currently available on your dvd set? If it is I've wasted about 8 months reading internet information.

I don't want to take any business from you at all but would love a source to know how you do what you do best. The only reason I have not sent my lot out to you was because I thought I was doing everything correctly but with my edge failure rate I'm starting to think it's not just because I'm a new sharpener but that I don't have the complete knowledge available.

I feel sure that I'll be sending you my knives at least once a year once I have a knife to switch it out with, but I'd love to be able to be sharpening a legitimate knife edge that is not over a burr or a wire edge until I feel only you can do what you do best.

Currently my knives last a week with hardcore prep use. A case each of tomatoes, bell pepper julienne, iceberg, green leaf, red and yellow onions, cucumbers, cabbage, butternut squash, and carrots every few days and after a week I feel I need to go back to a 1K, 2K, 5K, and 10K, progression and every month or so I start back with a 400 and repeat the process. When I have an issue with gliding through tomatoes I'll touch up with the 5 and 10K but if I could cut that to every two weeks I feel it would save my stones and knives.

With all the info you've provided me with from this forum I'd love to benefit from your knowledge and you benefit from me having it. I'd love your DVD set if this information is included, or to benefit from a future DVD set that will encompass everything.

I do alright with my sharpening, but would love to do better. A de-burring 101 DVD would help immensely!:

Also this forum has saved me from buying a Moritaka and an Aritsugu with out knowing fully what I could potentially be getting myself in to. Thank you all forum members for all of your hard work!
 
johndoughy said:
For a home setting, good board, feeding 2-3 people:
Wire edge:
Cheapo steel - 1-2 weeks
VG-10 and the like - 3 weeks or so
Real edge:
Cheapo Steel - 4-6 weeks before I get pissed at it.
VG-10 - 3 months with upkeep

Work setting(poly boards, high abuse, large volume):
Wire edge:
Cheapo Steel - an hour
VG-10 - 1 shift
Real Edge:
Cheapo Steel - a week
VG-10 - 2, maybe 2 1/2 weeks

This is assuming maintenance. The worst is that if you have a wire edge you are cutting with, and use something to maintain it, like a strop or a steel, you may end up snapping it right off and you're left with a knife that's worse than before.
Click to expand...

You refer to assuming maintenance as to how long the edge lasts. After reading this I am suddenly realizing that I must have wire edges because I strop on a 6k stone and leather every day or two between my weekly sharpenings--yet I really only feel like I get one great day off the initial edge. So hypothetically, upon removing the burr properly, my AS could have an edge that lasts 2 weeks with just some honing on a boroscilate rod or stropping on leather?
 
JanusInTheGarden said:
You refer to assuming maintenance as to how long the edge lasts. After reading this I am suddenly realizing that I must have wire edges because I strop on a 6k stone and leather every day or two between my weekly sharpenings--yet I really only feel like I get one great day off the initial edge. So hypothetically, upon removing the burr properly, my AS could have an edge that lasts 2 weeks with just some honing on a boroscilate rod or stropping on leather?
Click to expand...

This is what I am reading as well. I went from :D to :eek:hmy: in 6 pages of forum. Also I am evidently not de-burring at properly/at all.
 
I think you folks need to keep in mind an edge degrades as you use it. It's not like it becomes dull all of the sudden. Nobody said your edge would be amazing for three weeks and then just fail. It's a judgement call when you decide your edge is done. Case in point, I just picked up a Tojiro DP suji for sharpening. The guy said it was still working great except for the tip but I thought the edge was just about dead. Anything short of generating a burr at 1k or lower grit constitutes a touch-up, imo. You'd be grinding a long time on a higher grit stone before you get rid of the compromised metal so you're edges wouldn't last all that long that way.
 
stopbarking said:
Dave,

Is the technique you use for deburring + sharpening + wire edge removal currently available on your dvd set? If it is I've wasted about 8 months reading internet information.

I don't want to take any business from you at all but would love a source to know how you do what you do best. The only reason I have not sent my lot out to you was because I thought I was doing everything correctly but with my edge failure rate I'm starting to think it's not just because I'm a new sharpener but that I don't have the complete knowledge available.

I feel sure that I'll be sending you my knives at least once a year once I have a knife to switch it out with, but I'd love to be able to be sharpening a legitimate knife edge that is not over a burr or a wire edge until I feel only you can do what you do best.

Currently my knives last a week with hardcore prep use. A case each of tomatoes, bell pepper julienne, iceberg, green leaf, red and yellow onions, cucumbers, cabbage, butternut squash, and carrots every few days and after a week I feel I need to go back to a 1K, 2K, 5K, and 10K, progression and every month or so I start back with a 400 and repeat the process. When I have an issue with gliding through tomatoes I'll touch up with the 5 and 10K but if I could cut that to every two weeks I feel it would save my stones and knives.

With all the info you've provided me with from this forum I'd love to benefit from your knowledge and you benefit from me having it. I'd love your DVD set if this information is included, or to benefit from a future DVD set that will encompass everything.

I do alright with my sharpening, but would love to do better. A de-burring 101 DVD would help immensely!:

Also this forum has saved me from buying a Moritaka and an Aritsugu with out knowing fully what I could potentially be getting myself in to. Thank you all forum members for all of your hard work!
Click to expand...


No my DVD doesn't cover this much at all so if that's what you'd be looking for you should save your money. :)

I actually think that you're getting some decent time from your edges as it is, not to say that they can't get better because maybe they can, but you're looking damn good from where I'm standing.
 
AnxiousCowboy said:
anyone have some vids of different wire edge removal techniques?
Click to expand...


I doubt this exists. You will find TONS of vids mentioning that they're doing it but they're just making a pass or two on a strop which isn't the same thing. What needs to be shown is the system of how it's done through abrasion - sharpening.
 
What would you think about pulling along the edge with some major pressure on a higher grid stone to remove a tenacious burr?
 
Major pressure will create a larger burr/concave edge. This is the worst thing you could possible do. Always use light pressure at the end. If you're stropping on a softer substrate, a bit more pressure is not as bad but not "major pressure."
 
Too much pressure and you bend the steel while abrading the edge, which is a world of new problems.

There's really only 2 ways to skin this cat. Patient, consistent abrasion against progressively finer surfaces, stopping *JUST* when you reach the ideal finish of each stone/strop(which is the way straight razors are done), or creating as small a burr as possible, chasing it as little as possible, then removing it with an aggressive surface, then refining the edge that remains(which is how kitchen and carry knives are supposed to be done).

Don't anyone bring up that "I don't ever raise a wire edge" routine.:cookoo:
 
I have committed all of the above sins. Too much pressure, oversharpening and not knowing when to stop and throwing in that extra swipe/stroke (or ten).
 
johndoughy said:
Too much pressure and you bend the steel while abrading the edge, which is a world of new problems.
Click to expand...

Worth mentioning that when you remove burr by slicing into wood or anything other too much pressure kills your edge also. I been through that bit before and noticed significant difference in final edge with a lot of pressure applied to the wood or no pressure at all. And this was only made after 1k stone [For me this is most important stone in setup as it prepares you for all of higher grits. Get it wrong and finish will never be as good.Plus you really can get knife decently sharp on it.]


johndoughy said:
Don't anyone bring up that "I don't ever raise a wire edge" routine.
Click to expand...

Wire what?:rofl2:
 
johndoughy said:
Don't anyone bring up that "I don't ever raise a wire edge" routine.:cookoo:
Click to expand...

I guess from the technical point of view it is nearly impossible. Most likely the people who use the sharpen-without -raising-a-burr-technique stop at the moment the burr just starts forming so technically they actually raise a burr. :)
 
I have only felt what I would consider a burr only once on a knife I sharpened. I contribute that to the grind of the knife and the angle I was using. Otherwise I don't bother looking or feeling for one. I just do my thing. I have issues with feeling in the tips of my fingers so I don't bother.
 
YOu can certainly sharpen without raising uneven burrs...by doing equal strokes, one on one side, then one on the other, and so forth. You don't chase burrs on straights. But there is a wire edge that gets formed which you abrade down. This is just a characteristic of steel being softer than the particles abrading it!
 
I've read this thread but can someone explain the actual technique of deburring either on a strop or stone? I have been slicing through cork but I think it isn't working well...I am seeing major wire edge problems with my sharpening (single bevel).
 
Probably echoing what other have said, but cold someone post a list of sorts of deburring techniques? The felt blocks are unobtainable where I am. At the minute I am using a ceramic hone to deburr. I flip the burr over many times and then run the blade through a bit of wood gently. However, I don't think this works very well and it is very time consuming. Another thing is that this can't be a good idea when you get to the higher grits, because the hone is only about 2000 I reckon
 
slowtyper said:
I've read this thread but can someone explain the actual technique of deburring either on a strop or stone? I have been slicing through cork but I think it isn't working well...I am seeing major wire edge problems with my sharpening (single bevel).
Click to expand...


Using a leather hone/strop can be easy if you follow a couple of simple rules.


1. Approach the hone in the correct manner.

When you go to lay the knife down on the hone you should lay the knife down flat on it's side (edge away from you). Never approach the hone edge first as you will likely cut into the leather.


2. Find the angle.

Find the correct angle by simultaneously raising the spine and pushing the knife forward until the edge bites (not cuts) the leather. This is the exact angle of the bevel.

Over time try experimenting with the angle that you hone with. Try using the exact angle, then a slightly more acute (spine lower to the hone), and then a slightly more obtuse angle (spine farther away from the hone). I personally find that I often get a better edge by slightly raising the spine by about 1 deg from exact.


3. Use appropriate pressure.

For years I told people to use light pressure when stropping on leather. This was good advice since most leather is soft (often a lot softer than it appears) and easy to conform and wrap around a knife's edge serving to dub or roll the edge. If you can obtain leather that is very thin and stiff it will offer little to no give even under heavy downward pressure. This is advantageous to burr removal on high hardness blades like Japanese knives as you can now also use pressure to add to the draw that the leather provides to pull the loose burrs off of the edge.


4. Do not whip the blade at the end of the stroke!

This has to be the #1 mistake of the new stropper - whipping the knife off of the hone at the end of the stroke and rounding the edge over.

The correct technique would be to pull back and STOP at the end of the stroke - then lower the spine down to the hone (thus raising the edge off of the hone) - and then lift the knife off of the hone and continue back to the opposite end for the next stroke.


6. Take your time.

This is the #2 big mistake made when starting out - rushing.

You should take your time and ensure control. If this means doing the edge in little sections (versus a real impressive sweeping motion) then do so. It's almost a dead certainty that what you do at this stage of the game will either enhance or detract from what you did while on the stones. Taking your time will help achieve good results.
 
stevenStefano said:
Probably echoing what other have said, but cold someone post a list of sorts of deburring techniques? The felt blocks are unobtainable where I am. At the minute I am using a ceramic hone to deburr. I flip the burr over many times and then run the blade through a bit of wood gently. However, I don't think this works very well and it is very time consuming. Another thing is that this can't be a good idea when you get to the higher grits, because the hone is only about 2000 I reckon
Click to expand...


When you scrape the burr off with a ceramic hone you will change the edge quality to match the grit on the honing rod. If you want to retain a higher grit edge try using something that self heals. I always suggest the felt block just because I've found it to be the most effective for my use but there's other things that people tell me about all of the time that they use and get great results from - a wine cork is one example.
 
stevenStefano said:
Probably echoing what other have said, but cold someone post a list of sorts of deburring techniques? The felt blocks are unobtainable where I am. At the minute I am using a ceramic hone to deburr. I flip the burr over many times and then run the blade through a bit of wood gently. However, I don't think this works very well and it is very time consuming. Another thing is that this can't be a good idea when you get to the higher grits, because the hone is only about 2000 I reckon
Click to expand...

Try stropping at an obtuse angle (+/- 45-degrees) on wet newspaper. I like to run the edge through champagne corks (denser than ordinary wine corks).
 
I'm curious about the wet newspaper trick.Do you use just 1 sheet or a whole section(sports etc)? I tried wrapping my largest stone with a single sheet,not sure if this is correct.
 
slowtyper said:
I have been slicing through cork but I think it isn't working well..
Click to expand...

For me that would mean you didnt put enough time in creating the burr, and then in thinning it down.
Lets say, single bevel. I raise the burr, I flip it, and then I work it out more, basically I make the burr weaker and weaker by ''developing'' the edge, if thats understoodable.
After that I never had a cork problem.
 
shankster said:
I'm curious about the wet newspaper trick.Do you use just 1 sheet or a whole section(sports etc)? I tried wrapping my largest stone with a single sheet,not sure if this is correct.
Click to expand...

The whole section so that it creates a spongy mass with a bit of 'give'. I was told about it by a French chef/butcher I was talking with last year. He also said that he used vinegar as the liquid but I can't figure out why.
 
Maybe the vinegar is to put a bit of a patina on the edge itself and keep it from degrading/rusting. Just a guess.
 
bieniek said:
For me that would mean you didnt put enough time in creating the burr, and then in thinning it down...
Click to expand...
Exactly. If you are having troube removing your burr/wire edge, you should make sure you've carefully abraded it down to as close to nothing as you can get along the entire edge and then it should be easy to remove. If that's a problem, you have no choice but to go with progressively more aggressive methods OR raise your angle and essentially shear it off producing a microbevel.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Latest posts

Back
Top