Dickoron Micro for touch-ups?

[yummycrackers]

I seem to recall Benjamin Kamon mentioning at a certain point that he uses a Dickoron Micro rod for touch-ups on his carbon steel blades. Does anyone else have any experience with this? It seems like a great way of not wasting steel unnecessarily, though I can't quite wrap my head around how it works. That said, if it can postpone sharpening and thinning across a number of knives, it might be worth the (not inconsiderable) expense. And if I missed a thread where this had already been discussed, please let me know!

 

[Benuser]

The Dickoron Micro works quite well with carbons — and some stainless, by the way. I wouldn't use it with steel much above 60°Rc though. It does certainly postpone sharpening, but when sharpening has to take place, more fatigued steel than usual has to get abraded.
Have seen reports of home users using it for a year on a Robert Herder 1922, C75W @60Rc before giving it a full stone sharpening.
An alternative were in touching-up with a fine stone. I use a piece of Belgian Blue for almost all knives, except soft German stainless, that doesn't hold a high polish.

 

[Barmoley]

I believe Ben and others use it on hard steel such as 1.2519 @65 and apexultra @66-67.

 

[stringer]

I don't know about the Dickoron in particular, but I consider a fine ceramic honing rod to be an absolutely essential part of my professional knife kit. It is nothing mysterious, just a water stone in honing rod form. You use it to bring a microbevel back to life. I find even the cheap ones do well as long as you go with a fine one (1000-2000) grit. I have used them successfully on steels up to 63-64. I don't own any knives harder than that, but I wouldn't hesitate if I did.

 

[KAMON Knives]

I seem to recall Benjamin Kamon mentioning at a certain point that he uses a Dickoron Micro rod for touch-ups on his carbon steel blades. Does anyone else have any experience with this? It seems like a great way of not wasting steel unnecessarily, though I can't quite wrap my head around how it works. That said, if it can postpone sharpening and thinning across a number of knives, it might be worth the (not inconsiderable) expense. And if I missed a thread where this had already been discussed, please let me know!

I don't know where I mentioned it either but I talked about it in some detail here in a forum a few times.

Marco Guldimann first recommended it to me and would it have been anyone else, I wouldn't even have tried it. But since he knows his - all really - and is a scientist about it, I tried it and I'm very happy with the results.

I use it with Apex Ultra at ~67HRC even and it works. Don't ask me about a proper explanation for it, as I couldn't give you one other than the theory I have. I use and maintain my knives for a good year with them at the end still having that freak sharpness that cuts tomatoes easily and hanging kitchen towel. Not as perfectly as with a clean fresh edge of course, but still. Where the honing rod doesn't work is with steels that have a very high carbide volume. So high alloy PM steels like m390 or magnacut for example.
BTW when I say one year, that means for a knife that's beeing used to prep fresh meals for a 4 head family about 4 times a week and everything in between like cutting up a quick apple for my boys and what not. Of course it will be shorter in a professional cook shifts context.

Also everyone needs to be aware about how edges fail during use. As soon as I can feel a certain amount of micro chips on the edge with my nail, I'm giving the knife a gentle touch up on my 5k shapton pro and I'm good again for a year maintaining with the honing rod. However if you go on with the honing rod at that point, that might actually cost you as those micro chips will grow bigger to the point of where they're not an easy fix anymore.

My main reason to use it, is to conserve the original geometry of the knife without unnecessarily growing the edge too quickly and having to thin the knife out too early. Only real alternative to that approach is a guided system in combination with water stones as those use such little pressure and so few strokes over the stones due their perfect angle holding. However that's just too much effort for my taste.
I'm not a big fan of constant free hand stone touch ups no matter how high the grit, as it will wear the steel quicker than the rod does.

Also I can only speak for the micro dick. I don't have any experience with other rods .

 

[Bico Doce]

Also I can only speak for the micro dick. I don't have any experience with other rods

It is refreshing to hear that there is value in a micro dick

 

[yummycrackers]

I don't know where I mentioned it either but I talked about it in some detail here in a forum a few times.

Marco Guldimann first recommended it to me and would it have been anyone else, I wouldn't even have tried it. But since he knows his - all really - and is a scientist about it, I tried it and I'm very happy with the results.

I use it with Apex Ultra at ~67HRC even and it works. Don't ask me about a proper explanation for it, as I couldn't give you one other than the theory I have. I use and maintain my knives for a good year with them at the end still having that freak sharpness that cuts tomatoes easily and hanging kitchen towel. Not as perfectly as with a clean fresh edge of course, but still. Where the honing rod doesn't work is with steels that have a very high carbide volume. So high alloy PM steels like m390 or magnacut for example.
BTW when I say one year, that means for a knife that's beeing used to prep fresh meals for a 4 head family about 4 times a week and everything in between like cutting up a quick apple for my boys and what not. Of course it will be shorter in a professional cook shifts context.

Also everyone needs to be aware about how edges fail during use. As soon as I can feel a certain amount of micro chips on the edge with my nail, I'm giving the knife a gentle touch up on my 5k shapton pro and I'm good again for a year maintaining with the honing rod. However if you go on with the honing rod at that point, that might actually cost you as those micro chips will grow bigger to the point of where they're not an easy fix anymore.

My main reason to use it, is to conserve the original geometry of the knife without unnecessarily growing the edge too quickly and having to thin the knife out too early. Only real alternative to that approach is a guided system in combination with water stones as those use such little pressure and so few strokes over the stones due their perfect angle holding. However that's just too much effort for my taste.
I'm not a big fan of constant free hand stone touch ups no matter how high the grit, as it will wear the steel quicker than the rod does.

Also I can only speak for the micro dick. I don't have any experience with other rods .

Thanks for confirming, Ben! That's what I was interested in. It sounds like a simpler alternative to something like a Belgian Blue that also has the added benefit of preserving steel and hence geometry. Might have to give it a try.

 

[Danejah]

After hearing @KAMON Knives mention it in passing in another thread I bought the F.Dick and have been using it as he stated. In general I've been trying to avoid putting my knives to stones as much as I had in the past and am happy with the results. It's not as drastic imo but my knives do stay sharper longer id say and it may be my technique. I do have more than one knife I rotate through though. I also saw Joe at Halcyon forge mention doing a similar thing with his personal knife and I had inquired. He told me he uses a fine ceramic from idahone if I'm not mistaken and a leather strop. Ultimately though seems like you can get buy with any nice hone. Ive noticed it does obviously work maybe best when youve got a good starting point, some knives come perhaps noticeably sharper than others, ive been having good results with my AU knives from Devin Thomas and Eddworks

 

[Sabs]

It's a big part of my kit at work. I use primarily soft vintage carbons. It's incredible how easy it is to keep the edge so clean throughout the day. I almost never have to put my knives to a stone.

 

[1315]

So then, what about using a rod if the previous finishing stone was a SG 500, compared to a 3k, or a coticule? Is there a threshold in grit rating of the previous finishing stone for diminishing returns with a honing rod? Id think a Micron would perform best on an edge with a fine finish, say 4k+ ?

 

[KAMON Knives]

So then, what about using a rod if the previous finishing tome was a SG 500, compared to a 3k, or a coticule? Is there a threshold in grit rating for diminishing returns? Id think a Micron would perform best on an edge with a fine finish, say 4k+ ?

SG500 stands for shapton glass 500 if the interwebs told me right? I don't have any experience with the shapton glass stones but that sounds very course... Like... Generally for (good/high end) kitchen knife applications . At least if it compares to other 500 grit stones. But please correct me if I'm mistaken here.

Generally it's true though that for the fine micro dick honing rod it's beneficial to start with a closed Apex. Meaning a high grit cutting edge.