Discourse on why I love Chinese Cleavers re-post

[Scrap]

I would imagine using a cleaver for fish breakdown would depend some on the size of the fish, but I also think you could get it to work much like you would a deba. Any Japanese fish breakdown video should give you a decent idea of what you're going for

 

[loves2cook]

Now here is another way to use a cleaver

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G6OqYSdwDjI

 

[birdeye]

Oh wow now I am really intrigued. Maybe I will try it and see what happens. Is there some kind of logic behind chopping the head off vs. leaving it attached to the spine?

Woah, I was just thinking about this the other day and wondering how you'd got along with the old girl. Glad it worked out for you:doublethumbsup:

Oh yes, we get along nicely. And since I have now moved out I can just store it on the cutting board without anyone freaking out about there being sharp objects in public space. :knife: I also got myself a carbon steel wok to match the cleaver, although the harmony has since been disrupted by the darkening patina on the wok.

I can't believe I'm considering getting another knife now when I can't even afford to eat meat. But you know, priorities...

 

[Noodle Soup]

I watched a lady in a market filet a large order of fish for a restaurant with a cleaver a few years ago in Bangkok. On the other hand, when I was in Chengdu China a few weeks ago, most of the fish mongers seemed to be using knives very similar to Western filets for fileting. I don't think Chinese eat a lot of what we consider filets, most of their fish are steamed, fried etc whole or cut into thick steaks. Several different styles of large knives besides cleaver are used for the task.

 

[XooMG]

I walked by a fish seller the other day and looked at the cleaver they were using. Almost looked serrated. The fact that people use them that way doesn't make me recommend using them that way.

 

[birdeye]

Yes, you are right. I had a day off yesterday and spent it wisely by studying fish. Went to the fish counter in the morning, got myself a nice 1,4 kg bream. I ended up not using the cleaver much because I found it a little awkward to maneuver and the fish had very strong bones. I didn't want to put the poor cleaver through that. I went the traditional way and opened the fish with my trusty little puukko. A bit too small for a fish of this size, but it got the job done. I did use the cleaver for cleaning up the fillets and skinning, which it did quite nicely. I think it works best when slicing and dicing though, so fish butchering has to be done by something else.
...Aand thus I have justified the purchase of a proper fish knife. Oh bummer. :wink:

 

[XooMG]

I wish makers were a bit more transparent about their stuff sometimes, but it can be fun to find crude but potentially excellent cleavers.

I was picking up another knife when I saw this sucker in a cardboard sleeve. Rough finish (think angle grinder scratches) and "pure carbon steel" label with no hardness indication. Still, less than US$15 for the thing, and it seems pretty thin with decent geometry:

 

[Noodle Soup]

So what are considered the "professional user" brands of cleaver in Taiwan? It seems to vary from region to region in main land China.

 

[TimoNieminen]

Still, less than US$15 for the thing, and it seems pretty thin with decent geometry

Hard to go too wrong. I picked up a bunch of AU$17 Chinese knives, adequate steel (4Cr13), excellent geometry. Mostly for my wife to give out as loaner knives, but I've taken one as a holiday knife. Given such things, I don't see why people buy Kiwi knives (with their IMO inferior geometry).

(The ones I bought were http://www.wangwuquan.com/en/products/YYM-S2.htm from local Chinatown store.)

 

[XooMG]

So what are considered the "professional user" brands of cleaver in Taiwan? It seems to vary from region to region in main land China.

I haven't come across anything I'd call a professional standard brand. I haven't been in any of the higher-end kitchens to look at knives, but Ximen (西&#38272 brands (like the one I just posted pics of) seem pretty popular as users. The Jinmen stuff seems more for tourists, but there are a few locals who like them.

I'm no expert though.

 

[purplemutant]

I have now joined the cult of the cleaver! :knife: I picked up a Dexter Russel on ebay for $27 with free shipping! While waiting for it to arrive I have been looking at info on how to properly use it. That's how I stumbled across this thread and forum.

:newhere:

The cleaver came today! It looks new or barely used. So I didn't have to sharpen it. Of course I had to try it right away. I started with some carrots. I was immediately impressed. It's amazing that such a broad blade can make such ridiculously thin slices. On technique I have had trouble with in the past is julienning. So I never really did it. If I wanted a julienne I would break out the mandolin. With the cleaver I was able to make some amazingly thin julienne cuts. I wasn't just cutting match sticks; I was cutting tooth picks! It's impressive that with my first time using a cleaver I was able to master a technique I had trouble with using a western chefs knife. I decided to use the carrots in a salad with some apple. I was able to Julianne the apple too with out much trouble. I like how I was able to stack the apple slices and julienne several at a time. The broad blade does a great job of keeping the julienne apple from going everywhere. I also decided to do some kale in the salad. Given the crunchy theme of the salad I decided to do kale stem rather than kale leaf. I was amazed that I could julienne something as thin as a kale stem.

After just one meal; I am sold! The Chinese cleaver has now become my favorite kitchen knife. I am sure as I use it more and more I will love it more and more. Watching youtube videos, it's amazing to see just how versatile a cleaver really is. It's amazing how precise a cleaver can be in the right hands.

Next come the dangerous side to the clever cult. I live in the Bay area in California. So I have access to Chinatown in San Francisco. That means Chinese restaurant supply stores! I will have to pick up something as a backup in case my Dexter Russel gets damaged. I may have to check out a CCK. Hopefully I can walk out of China town with my bank account still intact :lol2:

Yes indeed cleavers do rule! :doublethumbsup:

Jennifer

 

[daveb]

You had me until the kale...

 

[echerub]

Oh, the real danger will be when you start looking at the other cleavers not generally available in retail stores

 

[purplemutant]

You had me until the kale...

You'll have to excuse me. I am Autistic and don't always get what people are trying to say. Are you saying that you don't believe I was able to julienne a kale stem? Or was the comment just meant as a joke? :scratchhead:

 

[chinacats]

You'll have to excuse me. I am Autistic and don't always get what people are trying to say. Are you saying that you don't believe I was able to julienne a kale stem? Or was the comment just meant as a joke? :scratchhead:

Hate to speak for Dave, but guessing he just doesn't like leafy green vegetables. In other words, yes I believe he meant it as a joke.
Congratulations on the new cleaver!

 

[daveb]

Joke. It sounded like a great salad until the kale:justkidding:

 

[purplemutant]

Joke. It sounded like a great salad until the kale:justkidding:

Gotcha! I like kale, I put it in darn near everything. But I understand that kale isn't for everyone. My sister can't stand kale.

 

[TheDispossessed]

i was hoping this thread would be brought back to life!

 

[Jaspernowhere]

A traditional way to julienne carrots with a Chinese cleaver is to stack up your slices and then fan them out like knocked over dominos leaning on each other kinda like this.../////////////////, but obviously closer to parallel with the board. Your carrot tootpicks will be carrot hair with a little practice happy chopping, my fellow chukabochoist.

 

[purplemutant]

A traditional way to julienne carrots with a Chinese cleaver is to stack up your slices and then fan them out like knocked over dominos leaning on each other kinda like this.../////////////////, but obviously closer to parallel with the board. Your carrot tootpicks will be carrot hair with a little practice happy chopping, my fellow chukabochoist.

Thanks for the technique, I will have to try that. Carrot hair sounds interesting. If for no other reason than to impress people. I am sure many people would be impressed to see such thin pieces of carrot cut with a cleaver. Of course some of these things are not nearly as impressive as they might seem. With the right technique and a little practice amazing things can be done with food. A thin Julianne is within most people's reach I think. I have some diagnosed fine motor control issues. So if I can do it I am sure most "normal" people can too.

Earlier today I was cutting some large green grapes. So I decided to try something. I took one of the grape slices and proceeded to fillet it. I just laid the cleaver flat on the board and used a sawing motion while rotating the grape slice. It's a amazing what a cleaver can do in the right hands. I wish I had known about these ages ago!

 

[apathetic]

The Cleaver is a fun knife indeed, I've been enjoying it. Are there any good videos to check out for technique?

 

[purplemutant]

The Cleaver is a fun knife indeed, I've been enjoying it. Are there any good videos to check out for technique?

I was looking at videos with Martin Yan. Here is one of him showing different cuts on a bell pepper. It's amazing how fine a cut you can do with a cleaver.

[video=youtube;3KRGi17Xg0Y]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3KRGi17Xg0Y[/video]

 

[XooMG]

Another cheap Taiwanese cleaver. I'd really like to test the hardness of these...they're ridiculously thin and take a very good edge. 1.8mm thick at the spine. Probably could be classified as a "laser".

 

[Asteger]

Very thin, and looks like it could be a bit concave on the 2-bevel. How's about a picture of the whole thing?

 

[XooMG]

Very thin, and looks like it could be a bit concave on the 2-bevel. How's about a picture of the whole thing?

Concavity may be an optical illusion that comes from the choil shot (the center "swell" is also only present at the heel because of the way the tang is shaped), and if not, it could easily be from being bent in grinding. Still, it's an impressively thin knife, and not a bad performer.

Didn't have a chance to take a pic of the overall knife, but it's super generic and in extremely rough finish so not extremely worthy of a photo shoot. The crudeness combined with the relatively high price got my curiosity.

 

[designdog]

I loved the cleaver I once owned - the big Takeda. Made me immediately watch Eat Drink Man Woman again.

Only problem was storage - it would not fit in anything I had. Also feared I might drop it on my toes. My forceful wife made me sell it. She is concerned with my well being...

 

[purplemutant]

I just came across this video on Chinese culinary knife skills. It shows some really impressive cleaver skills as well as footage of the cleavers being made.

[video=youtube;sijUq_Gxyu4]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sijUq_Gxyu4[/video]

Here are a couple of videos showing a CCK making short work of celery and onions.

[video=youtube_share;mvBELftB5Zg]http://youtu.be/mvBELftB5Zg[/video]

[video=youtube_share;0gon2PIdLvY]http://youtu.be/0gon2PIdLvY[/video]

 

[purplemutant]

Just to show how versatile a clever can be. Here is a video of a guy shaving with a CCK.

[video=youtube_share;QOumJ0B1Cj8]http://youtu.be/QOumJ0B1Cj8[/video]

 

[Asteger]

I loved the cleaver I once owned - the big Takeda. ... Only problem was storage - it would not fit in anything I had. Also feared I might drop it on my toes. My forceful wife made me sell it. She is concerned with my well being...

I just stick mine on the mag-bar (if currently in vogue). The only problem for me is that 1 chuka takes the place of 2 normal knives, and I've only got that 1 mag-bar.

Thanks or the vids, 'purplemutant'!

 

[purplemutant]

I just stick mine on the mag-bar (if currently in vogue). The only problem for me is that 1 chuka takes the place of 2 normal knives, and I've only got that 1 mag-bar.

Thanks or the vids, 'purplemutant'!

I keep my Dexter Russel on a magnet bar. That seems like the simplest option for knives as big as cleavers. If we didn't have a the mag bar I would look into making some kind of a sheath for it. I may do that anyway. It would be nice to have a good way to transport it. If I am visiting my sisters I would want to be able to cook with my own knife .