Any overgrind can be fixed. But that may need to change completly the look of the knife
District Cutlery style TF regrind service for Europe?
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E.g. by reducing the width. A Nakiri turned into a peeler.
Wow! A lot more complexities have surfaced here than I had in my mind originally. Very interesting stuff, thanks everyone!
Special thanks to @milangravier for taking the time and sharing your thoughts so extensively. I assume that cleancut's answer and your position are actually quite similar - it's the unknowns that make the whole thing tricky. I bet that if I took the knife and went to their shop, they would be able to give me a closer estimate in time needed and also could show me examples of the results I could expect. I also can imagine that there is some bad experiences behind their reluctance.
I guess the question is how DC does all this for a 80 USD fixed fee, or what to expect. I believe we are talking about two different things here:
1) DC-style quick fix: A power tool will be used to remove material, significantly improving the cutting performance of the blade. Minor imperfections are ignored when they don't significantly impact the performance. Then some kind of quick surface polish to increase the aesthetics. working time: 30mins on a power tool.
2) Artisan-style perfectioning: That's probably what you have in mind. Whetstones will be used to meticulously create a perfect convex geometry that is without flaw technically and aesthetically, matching what you would send out as one of your own blades. Working time: 4-8 hours.
Do you agree?
If yes, I think something around solution 1 is what I am looking for. In the second case, it might be the more efficient route to get a perfectly done blade by an artisan like you in the first place. Then it would be your work from start to finish, and costwise, the difference wouldn't be huge.
Thank you. I didn't have this Shop on my radar. Their location would be good.
Special thanks to @milangravier for taking the time and sharing your thoughts so extensively. I assume that cleancut's answer and your position are actually quite similar - it's the unknowns that make the whole thing tricky. I bet that if I took the knife and went to their shop, they would be able to give me a closer estimate in time needed and also could show me examples of the results I could expect. I also can imagine that there is some bad experiences behind their reluctance.
It is very understandable that you need to have the knife in hand before making a concrete estimate. One more reason why it is great to send it to someone within the customs union.
Yeah, that is a lot of work and probably the only way to get the really optimal result done. Obviously something that one would do only to a few select knives due to the cost involved. As much as I like my knives, that is not the investment I was thinking about at the moment. Thanks so much for clearing that up, I can think now what I want to achieve and what to invest.
Preserving the KU finish is a "nice to have" kind of thing. Not the priority.
I guess the question is how DC does all this for a 80 USD fixed fee, or what to expect. I believe we are talking about two different things here:
1) DC-style quick fix: A power tool will be used to remove material, significantly improving the cutting performance of the blade. Minor imperfections are ignored when they don't significantly impact the performance. Then some kind of quick surface polish to increase the aesthetics. working time: 30mins on a power tool.
2) Artisan-style perfectioning: That's probably what you have in mind. Whetstones will be used to meticulously create a perfect convex geometry that is without flaw technically and aesthetically, matching what you would send out as one of your own blades. Working time: 4-8 hours.
Do you agree?
If yes, I think something around solution 1 is what I am looking for. In the second case, it might be the more efficient route to get a perfectly done blade by an artisan like you in the first place. Then it would be your work from start to finish, and costwise, the difference wouldn't be huge.
Some pictures of what we're talking about. This is the knife I was thinking about having reworked: TF 195 Denka Nakiri.
Haha @Jeezy, I know what you mean, this is why I removed it in the meantime. Yeah choil shots are tricky - with a bit different angle and light, the whole impression can change. Weight is 260g.
The thing is, I've come to appreciate the weight a lot. It is one of the reasons why I keep reaching for this knife instead of lighter ones. If the knife had a performance grind, it should be a lot of fun.
The thing is, I've come to appreciate the weight a lot. It is one of the reasons why I keep reaching for this knife instead of lighter ones. If the knife had a performance grind, it should be a lot of fun.
Ok, glad to hear its an old photo. I thought you were using it like this the whole time
My Nakiri weights 250g
Hopefully for you I am not working at a 160 usd rate for an hour of work!
Just kiddingAnd yes I agree completly : I have practice and invest on those stones and skills so they can be used and I would not propose a quick thinning on a powertool and would let regular sharpeners to do it. I would prefer people contact me so use my skills : set a good geometry on a knife and doing a progression of stones to get a good stone polish.
To my point of view a blade is a well heat treated steel + a well executed sharpening (sharpening intended as general grind of a knife which start at the forge if you leave kurushi). TF are well known for there great heat treatment and also for needing some better grind sometimes. So to my point of view if you feel your having only one half of what make this a good knife, it is a good investment to pay for having the other half : a better grind. Now, is a better grind be acheived with a powertool : yes I think so. Again it is not because your work on stones that you're doing a good job and not because you're working with power tool that you will do a poor job. Power tool won't give you an even geometry like a whetstone can do, but it can to the trick to just make it cut better.
I see the knife. My first thought is : bevel looks thin even if it could be improved around the edge. I guess the problem you have is more about the shoulder above the bevel : that is a problem that should have been fixed while forging (but TF forge the way he like and people buy those knives for that way too), or it will need to grind the upper part of the bevel and put wider bevels
What do you feel when cutting for wanting a thinning on this knife ?
Quite reasonable question.
Besides there is a proverb: "You put out human's desire with money."
It used to be $40! But yes, you can see the basics of what's done within this thread:
https://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/threads/fujiwara-regrind-service-from-district-cutlery.58766/
Essentially thinning out the existing geometry by running a belt over it at progressive grits, hand sharpening for the edge on a synth and possibly a dip in FeCl.
Yeah, that's pretty much it. The thing is two-fold:
1. Right now, it's okay. Not great, but okay. For softer vegetables, it's perfect, but with denser vegetables, there is significantly more resistance than other knives I have. Which I ascribe to the shoulders / shinogi line being to low, essentially. The other nakiris I have perform significantly better, including the 165mm Denka which is quite a thin knive alltogether. So that is where I'd love to get.
2. The way I see it, the knife gains thickness relatively quickly after the quite thin edge. So when I keep using it and lose like 3mm of height, some real wedging will occur. That is somewhat speculative at this point.
3. I've seen a few pics of reworked Denkas that made me wish for something similar. The thread that @deltaplex kindly mentioned contains one set:
What do you think of that before and after?
And then there is things like that. Incredible work done by @Hz_zzzzzz . Anyways, this reworking of a Denka would be brilliant to have. Obviously, here we have a significantly raised shoulder + a kasumi reworking, certainly that is much more work than the District Cutlery service. Having someone to modify my Denkas in such a way would be brilliant to have if costs weren't totally going through the roof.
That shouldn't be a problem. Thinning is super easy and i do it everytime after like 3 normal sharpening sessions.
HSC /// Knives
KKF Supporting Craftsman
since you mentioned you have a few, you could consider sending them to Murray Carter,
it's not the EU , I understand, but if you have a few, you can amortize the shipping costs....
figure $60 UPS shipping to Idaho
he was charging $35 each I believe for a regrind/sharpening, of course you will have to confirm this
shipping return to you is likely more, perhaps $100 and you risk import charges.
his regrind is quite good for the price and he knows what he is doing.
you will have to accept this - "*Sending knives to Carter Cutlery for sharpening implies you agree to Murray’s best judgement on how your knife can be refurbished for better overall performance, which often results in cosmetic changes to the appearance."
it's not the EU , I understand, but if you have a few, you can amortize the shipping costs....
figure $60 UPS shipping to Idaho
he was charging $35 each I believe for a regrind/sharpening, of course you will have to confirm this
shipping return to you is likely more, perhaps $100 and you risk import charges.
his regrind is quite good for the price and he knows what he is doing.
you will have to accept this - "*Sending knives to Carter Cutlery for sharpening implies you agree to Murray’s best judgement on how your knife can be refurbished for better overall performance, which often results in cosmetic changes to the appearance."
And don't forget Swedish taxes!
For my Denka, there is no real comparison between the ‘before’ and ‘after’ versions. before I sent it in to District Cutlery, the knife is sharp, but it wedged pretty substantially. After being re-ground, this thing just flies through product. It is not a laser by any means, but it cuts so effortlessly without wedging. It is my daily driver, my go-to gyuto… I just find myself reaching for it more than any of my other knives.
I recently picked up a yo handled TF Maboroshi and gyuto and I plan to send it to Ryan, also.
Thank you for sharing your experience. That all sounds really good. If I were in the US, I'd send the knife to DC and try my hand at the kasumi afterwards.
Speaking for the old continent, Jürgen Schanz has also agreed to rework the blade - now I have to decide whether I have to send the knife to him or to Milan... Results will be great either way, I'm sure of that.
Speaking for the old continent, Jürgen Schanz has also agreed to rework the blade - now I have to decide whether I have to send the knife to him or to Milan... Results will be great either way, I'm sure of that.
That sounds great. If it's not too much of an inconvenience, would you be willing to share a pic of your knife, maybe even before and after thinning?
A bit much to ask, I know - no problem of course if not possible.
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riba
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I only have an after pic.
Whisper thin tip (with flex, not everybody's cup of tea), very thin behind the edge (exhibits some edge flex), more robust towards the heel. But .... doesn't feel delicate at the same time. It cuts like a charm
Note I didn't request any polishing or so...
Bump
Still looking for someone to re-work two of my 4 TFs. Two of them came perfectly thin (165 Nakiri and 240 Gyuto), but the other two are somewhat wedgistic (150 petty and 190 Nakiri).
Communication with Schanz was a bit odd. It probably would have been fine, I got a reply very quickly to my initial question, but that was very brief. He only asked 20€ to do it. I don't want to say quote me more, but I wasn't sure we were being on the same page. So I said I would like a thorough regrind, if possible, keeping the KU intact with a crisp transition. Probably annoyed him a bit, haven't received any more responses, so I let this one go. I understand it's a hassle for him, but I'd prefer someone who will talk me through how the knives are going to be re-worked.
@milangravier offered to help me out, but he would have done it on stones entirely. For this, his price was very forthcoming, but still it might be simpler to go to someone with a power tool... a cooled one, ideally. No Japanese water wheels in EU I guess...
I see that thinning is a valuable skill to learn, but the Denkas probably aren't the best knives to get started with.
So I'm still looking for someone, preferably within the EU to raise the shinogi without risk of overheating the blade, ideally doing in in an aesthetically pleasing way preserving a crisp line to the KU...
Still looking for someone to re-work two of my 4 TFs. Two of them came perfectly thin (165 Nakiri and 240 Gyuto), but the other two are somewhat wedgistic (150 petty and 190 Nakiri).
Communication with Schanz was a bit odd. It probably would have been fine, I got a reply very quickly to my initial question, but that was very brief. He only asked 20€ to do it. I don't want to say quote me more, but I wasn't sure we were being on the same page. So I said I would like a thorough regrind, if possible, keeping the KU intact with a crisp transition. Probably annoyed him a bit, haven't received any more responses, so I let this one go. I understand it's a hassle for him, but I'd prefer someone who will talk me through how the knives are going to be re-worked.
@milangravier offered to help me out, but he would have done it on stones entirely. For this, his price was very forthcoming, but still it might be simpler to go to someone with a power tool... a cooled one, ideally. No Japanese water wheels in EU I guess...
I see that thinning is a valuable skill to learn, but the Denkas probably aren't the best knives to get started with.
So I'm still looking for someone, preferably within the EU to raise the shinogi without risk of overheating the blade, ideally doing in in an aesthetically pleasing way preserving a crisp line to the KU...
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Without own experience it's my understanding that Schanz offers a thinning which would more appropriately be called a flattening. He is quoted: you can get it as thin as you like: it's the machine that has to work a bit longer, that's all.
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Fujiwara Teruyasu company encourages you to learn how to thin polish and maintain blade on your own. He sends you thick blade so you can develop skills necessary for a long life of knife skills and independence. Finding a specialist to tweak your knife for you is to disobey the teachings of wabi sabi.
One must make lasting relationship with TF blade through hours of labor. The labor teaches one patience, the satisfaction of a hard days work and fulfillment when exceptional cutting and even polished is formed by one’s own hands.
Teruyasu.net has gifted you very valuable specimen, once you have truly made it your own through hard work and dedication your TF will be a friend for life.
One must make lasting relationship with TF blade through hours of labor. The labor teaches one patience, the satisfaction of a hard days work and fulfillment when exceptional cutting and even polished is formed by one’s own hands.
Teruyasu.net has gifted you very valuable specimen, once you have truly made it your own through hard work and dedication your TF will be a friend for life.
Working on my Denka currently. Can confirm.
Corradobrit1
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Old dirty carbons as project knives fit better in my budget.
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Check out new vendors website Hata Knives Introduction
It's a knife and thinning lesson all in one. What a bargain!
