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kalaeb

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Anybody try this one yet? Is it a worthy alternative to the Tojiro F-631?

http://www.**************.com/rifa1.html
http://www.**************.com/tojirocleaver1.html

Not many great SS cleavers around.
The knife is not even closly related to the Tojiro. The Tojiro comes in at a hefty 650+ grams with the Fanatic is closer to 200. I have never tried the Tojiro, but the other is a pretty good knife. Thin, sharp with reasonable edge retention. Fashioned after the CCK 1303, I can't really find any major flaws with it, except for a bit much flex where the tang meets the handle which could crack the ferrule.
 
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echerub

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200 seems a bit too light for a cleaver... well, but the dimensions in general for the Fanatic are all a bit smaller, too. That's a bit of a negative, in my opinion.
 

kalaeb

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200 seems a bit too light for a cleaver... well, but the dimensions in general for the Fanatic are all a bit smaller, too. That's a bit of a negative, in my opinion.
Sorry, I should have said 200 ish, I don't have mine here to weight but it is close. For many, this is a detriment as many are used to the weight of a #6 or close. This is really a small slicer, certainly on the light side of a #3. I am used to light weight cleavers so for me it was a good buy.
 

99Limited

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My Fanatic weighs 256g with a 209mm edge. For a vegetable cleaver it seem to be a pretty good size to me. I've inspected the tang area and tried to flex handle and blade and it's plenty sturdy. I like the fact that it's made out of AEB-L and hardened to HRC 61 which should make it a pretty durable cleaver. Another sweet thing about this cleaver is you can put a really keen edge on it.
 

Eamon Burke

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It's a CCK 1303 with MUCH better steel, made via stock removal(which barely makes a difference here). The grind isn't exactly the same, but it performs very similar. Basically, if you love the CCK 1303, but don't love the "rustic" F&F(let's face, it's fugly), orange patina, yellow stains on food, and rusting, and complete lack of edge-holding, the Fanatic is what you want.

I can't say how it compares to other cleavers in it's price range, like a Sugimoto or Suien VC, because I've never used those. But I would say it's a fairly self-explanatory knife.
 

jaybett

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I don't know how you define great? Inexpensive? Stainless Steel? Size?

The Addict is a small cleaver, stainless, at a good price.

The Tojiro is a full size cleaver. The weight sounds like a #7 chopping cleaver, instead of a slicer. Reviews have been mixed. A cleaver guru was impressed by the one he got, others have not been as positive.

If I were going to get a high end stainless cleaver, and keeping costs, some what in line, would probably be the Mizuno. The best fit and finish, is the forum cleaver. The best stainless cleaver, might be the Tadatsuna. If its profile and grind are similar to the white steel version, that was discontinued.

Jay
 

Seb

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I don't know how you define great? Inexpensive? Stainless Steel? Size?

The Addict is a small cleaver, stainless, at a good price.

The Tojiro is a full size cleaver. The weight sounds like a #7 chopping cleaver, instead of a slicer. Reviews have been mixed. A cleaver guru was impressed by the one he got, others have not been as positive.

If I were going to get a high end stainless cleaver, and keeping costs, some what in line, would probably be the Mizuno. The best fit and finish, is the forum cleaver. The best stainless cleaver, might be the Tadatsuna. If its profile and grind are similar to the white steel version, that was discontinued.

Jay
You sound authoritative... which of those cleavers do you own?
 

malacara

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Well, I don´t have the Fanatic but I do have the Tojiro. Mine is not that heavy, it is "only" 509 grams and although I prefer lighter cleavers I like that extra weigth for certain tasks and I still enjoy a lot using it from time to time. However as an all around cleaver I would rather have one between 400 and 450 grams (and 22x11 cm). Lesser than that seems more than a nakiri or gyuto to me and I don´t really feel confortable with it. My Misono is 350 grams and I find it annoyingly light (and small) these days.

If I were going to get a high end stainless cleaver, and keeping costs, some what in line, would probably be the Mizuno. The best fit and finish, is the forum cleaver. The best stainless cleaver, might be the Tadatsuna. If its profile and grind are similar to the white steel version, that was discontinued.

Jay
If I could only have one of my cleavers it would probably be the Mizuno stainless cleaver, perfect weigt, can get insanely sharp, superb profile, crazy thin (as thin as my cck 1103) and by no means weak, or the Tadatsuna inox cleaver, similar to the Mizuno, perfect weigt, can get insanely sharp, superb profile... (very thin too although not as much as the Mizuno) but with a (to me) even better blade shape. I don´t know much about the forum cleaver but to me it bears certain resemblace with the Tojiro (full size cleaver, VG10, around 500 grams...) but sure it is a exceptional cleaver too.
 

malacara

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Not exactly, the handle is different, the f631 is entirely made of metal but I think the blade is the same. This one seems to be lighter.

BTW I bought his brother (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Japanese...448?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item35b4eba7a8) long time ago from this same seller and I couldn´t be happier. A totally different kind of cleaver though. I would be absolutely happy only with this one and the Mizuno or the Tadatsuna.
 

jaybett

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If I could only have one of my cleavers it would probably be the Mizuno stainless cleaver, perfect weigt, can get insanely sharp, superb profile, crazy thin (as thin as my cck 1103) and by no means weak, or the Tadatsuna inox cleaver, similar to the Mizuno, perfect weigt, can get insanely sharp, superb profile... (very thin too although not as much as the Mizuno) but with a (to me) even better blade shape. I don´t know much about the forum cleaver but to me it bears certain resemblace with the Tojiro (full size cleaver, VG10, around 500 grams...) but sure it is a exceptional cleaver too.
Interesting...I wasn't aware that the Mizuno stainless was so thin. The edge looks flat compared to the carbon version. On the Tadatsuna white steel cleaver, the spine is approximately 3-4mm, but quickly tapers down to 1mm or so, at the tip. Does the inox version, have a similar profile?

Jay
 

malacara

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Interesting...I wasn't aware that the Mizuno stainless was so thin. The edge looks flat compared to the carbon version. On the Tadatsuna white steel cleaver, the spine is approximately 3-4mm, but quickly tapers down to 1mm or so, at the tip. Does the inox version, have a similar profile?

Jay
I don´t have a calliper but I´d say that the spine is about 2 mm wide close to the handle and only barely narrower at the tip. BTW a couple of months ago Tadatsuna had white steel cleavers available. I already had the inox version and I didn´t go for it. I think the next one (and for sure my last one) will have to be the Sugimoto #6.

Regarding to the Mizuno, yes it really is thin. I don´t know if this is relevant but Koki got me a lighter one than is stated in JCK webpage (mine weights 443 grams instead of the expected 465 grams). It is quite flat, not dead flat but only slightly less flat than the CCK (the flatter one I have). The Tadatsuna edge is almost dead flat in its two first thirds and then rounds very nicely at the tip.
 

jaybett

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I don´t have a calliper but I´d say that the spine is about 2 mm wide close to the handle and only barely narrower at the tip. BTW a couple of months ago Tadatsuna had white steel cleavers available. I already had the inox version and I didn´t go for it. I think the next one (and for sure my last one) will have to be the Sugimoto #6.

Regarding to the Mizuno, yes it really is thin. I don´t know if this is relevant but Koki got me a lighter one than is stated in JCK webpage (mine weights 443 grams instead of the expected 465 grams). It is quite flat, not dead flat but only slightly less flat than the CCK (the flatter one I have). The Tadatsuna edge is almost dead flat in its two first thirds and then rounds very nicely at the tip.
Thanks for the information. Interesting how the stainless models from the same manufacturer are so different then the carbon models.

Somebody contacted Tadatsuna, a few years ago, inquiring about their white steel cleaver. The reply was that the white steel model was going to be discontinued because the maker had retired. Occasionally white steel ones pop up for sale. I wonder if Tadatsuna is finding old back stock?

Sugimoto #6 is a versatile knife with its distal taper. Thin up front for slicing, thicker towards the heel for chopping. It has the most comfortable handle found on a production cleaver. I think its the ideal handle type for cleavers. The spine is slightly rounded. The choil is rounded on the right hand side, but not the left. Size and weight are ideal. It's nimble for a cleaver, with all the benefits of a full size cleaver.
It's no where as thin as the Mizuno or Tadatsuna, but more of an all around knife.

Jay
 

454Casull

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Not exactly, the handle is different, the f631 is entirely made of metal but I think the blade is the same. This one seems to be lighter.

BTW I bought his brother (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Japanese...448?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item35b4eba7a8) long time ago from this same seller and I couldn´t be happier. A totally different kind of cleaver though. I would be absolutely happy only with this one and the Mizuno or the Tadatsuna.
The one you have is supposedly much thicker at 3.5 mm.
 

malacara

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The one you have is supposedly much thicker at 3.5 mm.
I´ve got both. the f631 is aproximately 2 mm in and the 920 3.5 mm.

Sugimoto #6 is a versatile knife with its distal taper. Thin up front for slicing, thicker towards the heel for chopping. It has the most comfortable handle found on a production cleaver. I think its the ideal handle type for cleavers. The spine is slightly rounded. The choil is rounded on the right hand side, but not the left. Size and weight are ideal. It's nimble for a cleaver, with all the benefits of a full size cleaver.
It's no where as thin as the Mizuno or Tadatsuna, but more of an all around knife.

Jay
Thanks for the info, very appreciated. This knife doesn´t appear in the forums often these days
 

454Casull

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I´ve got both. the f631 is aproximately 2 mm in and the 920 3.5 mm.
If the F-631 is almost half as thick, how is it more than 100 grams heavier than the F-920? Is the handle really that heavy? The balance would be moved quite a bit back, no?
 

Eamon Burke

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I also think, surprisingly, that I like the cck's round handle a little more. Cleavers need handles with more girth than a wa handle. Maybe I just have long fingers.
 

JohnnyChance

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Any non cleaver discussion from this point forward will be removed. If you want to talk about the Fanatic or any other cleaver, please do so. If you don't have anything to add on that topic, please refrain from posting. If this does not slow it down, all non-cleaver related posts in this thread will be removed, past and future.

If you have any questions, comments or concerns, please PM me. Thanks guys.
 

jaybett

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Man, this started as a pretty good cleaver discussion. Would have been nice to leave it at that. For what its worth I stil like the fanatic.
Out of curiosity what is it about the Fanatic that you like? I figure it's a small thin stainless knife at a good price for people who want to try a cleaver.

Jay
 

Marko Tsourkan

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I owned a cleaver briefly and then sold it to Will Spear (haven't seen or heard from him, where is Will?)

It was a pretty heavy cleaver and with a short stubby handle (round). The handle was just right for it, despite the size. There is something to be said about short handles on a cleaver.

M

PS: Good call, JC -
 

jaybett

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I also think, surprisingly, that I like the cck's round handle a little more. Cleavers need handles with more girth than a wa handle. Maybe I just have long fingers.
I find that wa handles are too long for cleavers. Since a cleaver is held by blade. A cleaver handle needs to be thick and stubby. Personally I think the Sugimoto handles are ideal. Rectangle shaped with the top and bottom rounded off.

Jay
 

JohnnyChance

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It was a pretty heavy cleaver and with a short stubby handle (round). The handle was just right for it, despite the size. There is something to be said about short handles on a cleaver
Yeah, I do love the short stubby cleaver handles. Perhaps one of your new D-handles in cleaver dimensions should be experimented upon....it sounds wicked comfy.
 

Jim

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Any non cleaver discussion from this point forward will be removed. If you want to talk about the Fanatic or any other cleaver, please do so. If you don't have anything to add on that topic, please refrain from posting. If this does not slow it down, all non-cleaver related posts in this thread will be removed, past and future.

If you have any questions, comments or concerns, please PM me. Thanks guys.

This thread has been pruned and the off topic posts removed. Any comments or feedback on how the KKF is run, are very welcome to be posted in the Site Feedback forum.
As policy we really have no interest in censoring anyone's opinion or thoughts. However in this context, ax grinding or fanboyism is not welcome either- Real feedback about vendors and their wares are welcome in the appropriate forum.
Thank you-
 

Marko Tsourkan

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I think oval will be more appropriate. I have held cleavers with octagonal handles (Takeda and Moritaka) and didn't like them as much, in part because they were full-size handles and in part because of the sharp corners of an octagonal handle. Shape the handle into an oval shape, shorten it and use a pinch grip holding a cleaver and you have a complete different experience.

M
 

jaybett

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I think oval will be more appropriate. I have held cleavers with octagonal handles (Takeda and Moritaka) and didn't like them as much, in part because they were full-size handles and in part because of the sharp corners of an octagonal handle. Shape the handle into an oval shape, shorten it and use a pinch grip holding a cleaver and you have a complete different experience.

M
The most comfortable cleaver handles have a bit of taper, where they attach to the knife. The taper relieves pressure on the middle or ring finger, depending on which grip is used.

Jay
 

Marko Tsourkan

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The most comfortable cleaver handles have a bit of taper, where they attach to the knife. The taper relieves pressure on the middle or ring finger, depending on which grip is used.

Jay
Makes sense. To taper an oval handle is pretty easy. Do you guys think D-handle would work for a cleaver? Not that I have any plans for cleavers, just curios.

M
 
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