Food Release: Stiction and the Grind

[Nemo]

Looks cool Kip. Really interested to see how it goes.

 

[Kippington]

Looks cool Kip. Really interested to see how it goes.

Thanks Nemo!

It's getting late so I'd better stop before I piss off the neighbors.
The knife is coming along nicely. I should be able to finish it tomorrow and get some testing done.

 

[Dave Martell]

Now that's something new! This is going to be interesting - following.

 

[labor of love]

“Fish hook” grind haha. Can’t wait to hear how it performs.

 

[cheflivengood]

That looks like a winner, dibs first on passaround

 

[panda]

Catch some fishies 🐡🐡🦈🦈🐠🐟

 

[chinacats]

Interesting concept but can't see how it would hold up to a few thinning sessions?

 

[LifeByA1000Cuts]

Food catch-and-release

Wonder how it will deal with fine dicing (danger of throwing a confetti party by erratically pulling slices out of the stack)?

Also, do I get it right that the hook is on the underside when cutting right handed parallel to board? Hope it is, otherwise gravity is going to really heckle you ...

 

[Kippington]

Chinacats, all the knives that have been pictured in this thread would have similar long-term issues with thinning. This one would do pretty well, all things considered. There's enough meat in there to have a full thickness knife, even after the 'step' has been ground away.

Also, do I get it right that the hook is on the underside when cutting right handed parallel to board?

Underside of what exactly? I'm not following.

 

[Kippington]

This knife is growing on me. :biggrin:
I've added an old handle that was lying around and sharpened the edge. The knife looks pretty good considering it has no polish whatsoever (straight off the 60 grit belts).

It's a tad clunky in the hand - a little heavy for me at 192g overall. People that like heavier knives would love this thing. It feels solid.
I tested it on a cucumber and it seems to work pretty well. More testing to come soon.

[video=youtube;UO3oOFJ8Fjo]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UO3oOFJ8Fjo[/video]

I consider this a success as a proof-of-concept, but as a knife I think it could be done better. I will think it over for a while, spend a little more time cutting with this one, then start on an improved thinner version.

 

[Nemo]

Underside of what exactly? I'm not following.

I think he means that when doing horizontal cuts (e.g.: when dicing onions), the tip of the hook will be facing the board.

 

[labor of love]

“This video is unavailable”....

 

[labor of love]

I think he means that when doing horizontal cuts (e.g.: when dicing onions), the tip of the hook will be facing the board.

Even if that’s the case the area behind the edge shouldn’t be in contact with the board.

 

[Kippington]

“This video is unavailable”....

Thanks, fixed it. I accidentally had the video set to 'private' instead of 'unlisted'.

[video=youtube;UO3oOFJ8Fjo]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UO3oOFJ8Fjo[/video]

I think he means that when doing horizontal cuts (e.g.: when dicing onions), the tip of the hook will be facing the board.

Ah that makes sense. The answer is yes, it's a right-handed knife with the hook on the right-face, the left face being standard convex. I can make left handed versions easily enough - it's not too hard to grind the basics of this knife. The real trouble starts when I try to narrow each individual component to its upper performance limit.

 

[Nemo]

That food release looks great.

 

[labor of love]

The food release is really impressive IMO. The question that remains is how much pure cutting ability(lazering through food) is sacrificed to get that sort of food release.

 

[HRC_64]

Ok, needs the carrot video next

 

[HRC_64]

The food release is really impressive IMO. The question that remains is how much pure cutting ability(lazering through food) is sacrificed to get that sort of food release.

make these kinds of designs incrementally thinner
vs. to see if failure rates get in the way

 

[bkultra]

Kippington looks like you could use a larger board :biggrin:

 

[LifeByA1000Cuts]

@Nemo my point was, if the hook was facing up, it could become quite an annoying task to get the knife unstuck because gravity would push whatever is laying on top of it against the hook, so lifting the knife won't help.

 

[Nemo]

@Nemo my point was, if the hook was facing up, it could become quite an annoying task to get the knife unstuck because gravity would push whatever is laying on top of it against the hook, so lifting the knife won't help.

Yeah, this is an interesting point. Coould it happen with the hook facing down as well? Maybe depends on the ingredient being cut and which cuts have already been made in it. Will be fascinating to see how it works in practice.

 

[Danzo]

Whoa that food release is insane!

 

[Kippington]

Whoa that food release is insane!

Thanks guys!

As some of you have noticed, the knife was quite thick behind the edge and - as to be expected - didn't perform so well against harder foods.
So now I'm sure that the general idea works, it's time to optimize the grind. I've added depth to the shinogi-step and turned the right-side primary bevel into more of a concave grind. Basically I've taken a lot of the unnecessary steel out of the places where it wasn't needed. It has lost 36g, and is now 166g with the handle. This amount of grinding has caused the knife to warp slightly off center, however it's not enough of a problem for me to bother doing anything about fixing it (most people wouldn't even notice it, and it's easier to fix closer to the end of the process).

It's ready for more testing, I'm off to the shops to buy some harder foods to cut up. Ugh, I've eaten so much potato and carrot in the last few days... the things I do for research and development!

 

[inferno]

hey kip what radius are u using for that transition?

or are you using the side of the belt to create it??

I'm just an amateur in making sh1t

 

[Kippington]

I'm using the side of the belt.
I was using a radius wheel on the first attempt (first picture on the first page), but I feel I can get better results using this 'belt edge' technique.

I am also just an amateur in making sh1t. But I guess I've spent many years waving knives around in commercial kitchens, so that kinda helps...

 

[inferno]

how would you yourself rate this grind? is it worth it or is a novelty only? I think its very forward thinking, but I dont know if its better than regular so to speak.

 

[inferno]

I
waving knives around in commercial kitchens, so that kinda helps...

 

[inferno]

looks pretty bad ass to me. you should commercialize this and make money on it. licence it. imo.

 

[inferno]

licence it to tojiro or masamoto, say its about 3500% better than regular grind for release. they will buy that.
kipground...

 

[labor of love]

I really am having a hard time imagining how a knife like that performs. Perhaps make this grind as thin as you can in the future (or use thinner stock) as food release has been the bane of existence for lasers?