Help me pick my first gyuto

[Captain Mack]

Hello KKF!

New member here, and generally new to the world of fine cutlery. As an avid home cook I've been getting by for many years on a not-terrible-but-nothing-fancy set of stainless knives (bread knife, 8" chefs, 7" santoku, 5" serrated utility, 3.5" paring) bought off Amazon. They do the job, but they leave much to be desired. I've got a birthday coming up, and my wife has graciously offered to gift me something "nice." Yessss!

Now I'm looking into getting a first Japanese knife, and I've really started falling down the rabbit hole. Reading lots of threads here, watching lots of videos. One of my primary goals is to get a knife that will help me improve my knife skills--at the moment I use a lot of motions that leave the knife tip on the board (slicing, rock-chopping, mincing, etc.), but I'd like to develop more elegant techniques. I also want to begin the journey in learning to sharpen. I know I want a gyuto, preferably a mid-weight 210mm. A somewhat flatter profile is ideal if it will encourage me to rely less on rocking motions. But what I'm really hung up on is the steel. I'm definitely carbon-curious, but as this is going to be a do-most-everything-knife I am also still a bit apprehensive about reactivity (onions, citrus, and other acidic foods are regularly under my blades). Ginsan and other semi-stainless sound like a pretty appealing compromise, but I also worry about missing out on the screaming edge, the silky sharpening, and the wabi-sabi of simpler steels.

I'm looking forward to the expert guidance of all ye in the KKF community. Apologies in advance if I'm not doing this kind of ask right. Go easy on me, I'm a n00b!

LOCATION
What country are you in?

USA

KNIFE TYPE
What type of knife are you interested in (e.g., chef’s knife, slicer, boning knife, utility knife, bread knife, paring knife, cleaver)?

Gyuto

Are you right or left handed?

Right

Are you interested in a Western handle (e.g., classic Wusthof handle) or Japanese handle?

I'd like to try out a Japanese handle

What length of knife (blade) are you interested in (in inches or millimeters)?

210mm

Do you require a stainless knife? (Yes or no)

See above. My head says ginsan, my heart says carbon.

What is your absolute maximum budget for your knife?

$250

KNIFE USE
Do you primarily intend to use this knife at home or a professional environment?

Home

What are the main tasks you primarily intend to use the knife for (e.g., slicing vegetables, chopping vegetables, mincing vegetables, slicing meats, cutting down poultry, breaking poultry bones, filleting fish, trimming meats, etc.)? (Please identify as many tasks as you would like.)

This is going to be my primary instrument for the foreseeable future. Lots of fruits and veggies (including onions and citrus), prepped in a variety of ways; most of the meat, poultry and fish that I buy is already cut, though I often do further processing (shaving, slicing, cubing, portioning) prior to cooking; occasionally breaking down whole chickens; slicing/carving meat and poultry for serving

What knife, if any, are you replacing?

Although I currently have a set of low-mid range stainless knives, I want to use this new knife to pretty much replace them all. I will, however, continue to use the paring knife for things like peeling fruit, and the bread knife for, uh, yeah...bread.

Do you have a particular grip that you primarily use? (Please click on this LINK for the common types of grips.)

I'm most comfortable with pinch-grip, but I'm open to experimenting with other grips

What cutting motions do you primarily use? (Please click on this LINK for types of cutting motions and identify the two or three most common cutting motions, in order of most used to least used.)

I often find myself using motions with the knife continuously making contact with the board (rock slicing, rock chopping, mincing, etc.). But I'd like to develop better habits and knife skills.

What improvements do you want from your current knife? If you are not replacing a knife, please identify as many characteristics identified below in parentheses that you would like this knife to have.

Better aesthetics


Comfort


Ease of Use and Care


Edge Retention (i.e., length of time you want the edge to last without sharpening)?

I'm sure anything I get will be an improvement over what I currently have. As a home cook, comfort and edge retention aren't critical (though nevertheless welcome). Aesthetics are only a tertiary consideration, but I prefer minimalistic or rustic over blingy. In terms of ease of use, I'm okay with leveling up my knife maintenance routine (sharpening, oiling, wiping during use, etc.). But I also don't want a knife that requires extreme babying.

KNIFE MAINTENANCE
Do you use a bamboo, wood, rubber, or synthetic cutting board?

Bamboo for now. But after the new knife, my next kitchen purchase will be a better board.

Do you sharpen your own knives? (Yes or no.)

Currently, no.

If not, are you interested in learning how to sharpen your knives?

Yes!

Are you interested in purchasing sharpening products for your knives? (Yes or no.)

Yes!

SPECIAL REQUESTS/COMMENTS

After much research, I've basically narrowed down my quest to two contenders (though I'm open to other suggestions): Tanaka ginsan nashiji 210 gyuto (from K&S) or Munetoshi kurouchi gyuto 210 (from JNS). They both get a lot of love from internet aficionados. With shipping factored in, they are both roughly at the same price point. My biggest dilemma comes down to steel type: ginsan vs white#2. The romantic in me loves the idea of full on carbon steel, but from a practical standpoint the ginsan seems like the better option. I'd love to hear your opinions. Bonus if any of you fine folks have direct experience with either (or both) knives, and can comment on things like f&f, profile, grind, and what not.

 

[blokey]

You can get a Yoshikane SKD 210 with their 15% discount, semi stainless so not not much worry.
https://knivesandstones.us/collecti...yuto-210mm-240mm-270mm?variant=42893336543479
Edit: there also the good old Takamura red handle
https://tokushuknife.com/products/takamura-migaki-sg2-gyuto-210mm

 

[Captain Mack]

You can get a Yoshikane SKD 210 with their 15% discount, semi stainless so not not much worry.
https://knivesandstones.us/collecti...yuto-210mm-240mm-270mm?variant=42893336543479
Edit: there also the good old Takamura red handle
https://tokushuknife.com/products/takamura-migaki-sg2-gyuto-210mm

Thanks for the recommendations! That Yoshi looks super attractive, but unfortunately they’re out of stock in 210mm.

 

[blokey]

Thanks for the recommendations! That Yoshi looks super attractive, but unfortunately they’re out of stock in 210mm.

My bad, didn’t check. . They still have white 2 in stock, those are stainless claded so less problem than pure carbon. There’s also Wakui at AFrame Tokyo, same stainless cladded white one. If you want you can try 240mm Wakui, not much more expensive and very friendly size at home.

https://knivesandstones.us/collecti...hiji-stainless-clad-gyuto-210mm-240mm-270mm-1https://aframestokyo.com/collection...ducts/toshihiro-wakui-nashiji-gyuto-210mm-8-2

 

[Captain Mack]

Ah brilliant! With the 15% coupon that Yoshi in stainless clad white 2 is very tempting. It might be the one.

 

[user 50275]

You can get a Yoshikane SKD 210 with their 15% discount, semi stainless so not not much worry.
https://knivesandstones.us/collecti...yuto-210mm-240mm-270mm?variant=42893336543479
Edit: there also the good old Takamura red handle
https://tokushuknife.com/products/takamura-migaki-sg2-gyuto-210mm

+1 for good old takamura

 

[HumbleHomeCook]

Welcome and good for you to want to pursue a quality knife. It really does change the cooking experience and ultimately your food.

First I would say there's no reason to abandon rock-chopping. There's nothing inherently more "elegant" to other forms of cutting and rock chopping serves it's purpose well. I find a blend of techniques is the best approach.

Second, I'm going to say damn the torpedoes and embrace the carbon. Even after decades of being a knife enthusiast I avoided carbon. But once I finally took the plunge I was hooked and today the majority of my knives are either mono carbon steel or iron clad. The cladding is what is usually the more reactive so a stainless cladding might be attractive to you. But, that said, most of them aren't nearly as bad as vendor videos will have you believe. Turn off the Knifewear videos and dive in.

I'll offer up a couple suggestions too:

https://www.japanesenaturalstones.com/munetoshi-kurouchi-gyuto-210mm/?setCurrencyId=3Munetoshi is pretty popular around here as a well done, no frills, get-it-done knife. I own one and love it. In fact it is currently the only 210 gyuto I have left in my possession. This knife also offers great long-term maintenance attraction as it is wonderful to sharpen and the iron cladding will make eventual thinning much nicer.


https://aframestokyo.com/collection...ducts/toshihiro-wakui-nashiji-gyuto-210mm-8-2Wakui apprenticed under Yoshikane so it will have a very similar grind, being flat and thin at the edge. Be warned, both Wakui and Yoshi can be delicate so care is needed early on. They are also quite flat.

Then I STRONGLY encourage you get something like this:
https://www.amazon.com/Kuromaku-Cer...s=shapton+kuromaku&qid=1687616806&s=hi&sr=1-3
The case can act as a stone holder. While I prefer a 1.5-2k many here will advise the 1k for your starting point and it is good advice. You will want to get a stone flattening option but that can wait until next payday. The 1k allows you some versatility and will let you maintain a serviceable edge while you learn.

Now, that said, I'm going to toss out another, quite different idea...

https://carbonknifeco.com/collectio...cts/sakai-kikumori-nihonko-carbon-gyuto-210mmNihonko aka SK steel is a mono carbon steel that is quite resilient and sharpens nicely. My Kikumori suji is a mainstay in my kitchen. These may not be as sexy as other options but these are purpose-built tools that do their jobs! Compared to what you've been using it will feel like a hot wire. You still get grind versatility, it gives you the chance to ease into carbon, it gives you chance to start seeing what you actually like in your knives, and it frees up more for sharpening gear!

Learning to sharpen, in my opinion, is the best thing you can do for your knife life. Don't think of it as learning how to work on a car before driving but rather going to Driver's Ed before driving. Once you learn to get decent edges, your cutting performance improves, your cutting confidence goes up, and the world of cutlery opens up to you as you know you can handle whatever you choose.

If you go the latter route then I'd alter my sharpen recommendations to also include an Atoma 140 diamond flattening plate (yes it is worth it) or if necessary, one of the cheaper versions on Chef Knives To Go.

 

[Captain Mack]

Welcome and good for you to want to pursue a quality knife. It really does change the cooking experience and ultimately your food.

First I would say there's no reason to abandon rock-chopping. There's nothing inherently more "elegant" to other forms of cutting and rock chopping serves it's purpose well. I find a blend of techniques is the best approach.

Second, I'm going to say damn the torpedoes and embrace the carbon. Even after decades of being a knife enthusiast I avoided carbon. But once I finally took the plunge I was hooked and today the majority of my knives are either mono carbon steel or iron clad. The cladding is what is usually the more reactive so a stainless cladding might be attractive to you. But, that said, most of them aren't nearly as bad as vendor videos will have you believe. Turn off the Knifewear videos and dive in.

I'll offer up a couple suggestions too:

https://www.japanesenaturalstones.com/munetoshi-kurouchi-gyuto-210mm/?setCurrencyId=3Munetoshi is pretty popular around here as a well done, no frills, get-it-done knife. I own one and love it. In fact it is currently the only 210 gyuto I have left in my possession. This knife also offers great long-term maintenance attraction as it is wonderful to sharpen and the iron cladding will make eventual thinning much nicer.


https://aframestokyo.com/collection...ducts/toshihiro-wakui-nashiji-gyuto-210mm-8-2Wakui apprenticed under Yoshikane so it will have a very similar grind, being flat and thin at the edge. Be warned, both Wakui and Yoshi can be delicate so care is needed early on. They are also quite flat.

Then I STRONGLY encourage you get something like this:
https://www.amazon.com/Kuromaku-Cer...s=shapton+kuromaku&qid=1687616806&s=hi&sr=1-3
The case can act as a stone holder. While I prefer a 1.5-2k many here will advise the 1k for your starting point and it is good advice. You will want to get a stone flattening option but that can wait until next payday. The 1k allows you some versatility and will let you maintain a serviceable edge while you learn.

Now, that said, I'm going to toss out another, quite different idea...

https://carbonknifeco.com/collectio...cts/sakai-kikumori-nihonko-carbon-gyuto-210mmNihonko aka SK steel is a mono carbon steel that is quite resilient and sharpens nicely. My Kikumori suji is a mainstay in my kitchen. These may not be as sexy as other options but these are purpose-built tools that do their jobs! Compared to what you've been using it will feel like a hot wire. You still get grind versatility, it gives you the chance to ease into carbon, it gives you chance to start seeing what you actually like in your knives, and it frees up more for sharpening gear!

Learning to sharpen, in my opinion, is the best thing you can do for your knife life. Don't think of it as learning how to work on a car before driving but rather going to Driver's Ed before driving. Once you learn to get decent edges, your cutting performance improves, your cutting confidence goes up, and the world of cutlery opens up to you as you know you can handle whatever you choose.

If you go the latter route then I'd alter my sharpen recommendations to also include an Atoma 140 diamond flattening plate (yes it is worth it) or if necessary, one of the cheaper versions on Chef Knives To Go.

Wow, thank you for this detailed and very helpful advice. I've got lots to think about. And now I'm getting the push I needed to go carbon. Damn the torpedoes indeed!

That Shapton 1000 has actually been sitting in my Amazon cart for a few days. I might as well just pull that trigger and start practicing on the stainless knives I already own.

I've read many good things about both Yoshikane and Wakui, but it's interesting to know that they are both on the delicate side. The utilitarian nature of the Munetoshi is appealing.

So now I have a couple more questions:

1) Are there any downsides to stainless cladding as opposed to monocarbon or iron cladding? Somehow I got the impression that stainless cladding is divisive.

2) If I go with the Munetoshi it turns out that the price of the 240mm actually qualifies for free shipping, effectively making it a free upgrade from the 210mm. I currently use an 8" chefs knife most often, and I even use the 7" santoku a lot for things like making salads. I was thinking that a 210 gyuto would be most comfortable given what I'm used to. I don't work in a pro kitchen, and don't do gallons of prep; at the most I'm making dinner for two +leftovers. Do you think I would find a 240mm cow sword unwieldy?

3) Is the Shapton 1000 a big improvement over the 1000/3000 combo stone they carry at JCK?

 

[Justinv]

If you want to stick with stainless there is a Kurosaki on BST.

tetsujin-metal-flow-nakagawa-damascus-and-kurosaki-gyutos-manaka-petty

Its not ideal for learning to sharpen.

 

[DitmasPork]

Hello KKF!

New member here, and generally new to the world of fine cutlery. As an avid home cook I've been getting by for many years on a not-terrible-but-nothing-fancy set of stainless knives (bread knife, 8" chefs, 7" santoku, 5" serrated utility, 3.5" paring) bought off Amazon. They do the job, but they leave much to be desired. I've got a birthday coming up, and my wife has graciously offered to gift me something "nice." Yessss!

Now I'm looking into getting a first Japanese knife, and I've really started falling down the rabbit hole. Reading lots of threads here, watching lots of videos. One of my primary goals is to get a knife that will help me improve my knife skills--at the moment I use a lot of motions that leave the knife tip on the board (slicing, rock-chopping, mincing, etc.), but I'd like to develop more elegant techniques. I also want to begin the journey in learning to sharpen. I know I want a gyuto, preferably a mid-weight 210mm. A somewhat flatter profile is ideal if it will encourage me to rely less on rocking motions. But what I'm really hung up on is the steel. I'm definitely carbon-curious, but as this is going to be a do-most-everything-knife I am also still a bit apprehensive about reactivity (onions, citrus, and other acidic foods are regularly under my blades). Ginsan and other semi-stainless sound like a pretty appealing compromise, but I also worry about missing out on the screaming edge, the silky sharpening, and the wabi-sabi of simpler steels.

I'm looking forward to the expert guidance of all ye in the KKF community. Apologies in advance if I'm not doing this kind of ask right. Go easy on me, I'm a n00b!

LOCATION
What country are you in?

USA

KNIFE TYPE
What type of knife are you interested in (e.g., chef’s knife, slicer, boning knife, utility knife, bread knife, paring knife, cleaver)?

Gyuto

Are you right or left handed?

Right

Are you interested in a Western handle (e.g., classic Wusthof handle) or Japanese handle?

I'd like to try out a Japanese handle

What length of knife (blade) are you interested in (in inches or millimeters)?

210mm

Do you require a stainless knife? (Yes or no)

See above. My head says ginsan, my heart says carbon.

What is your absolute maximum budget for your knife?

$250

KNIFE USE
Do you primarily intend to use this knife at home or a professional environment?

Home

What are the main tasks you primarily intend to use the knife for (e.g., slicing vegetables, chopping vegetables, mincing vegetables, slicing meats, cutting down poultry, breaking poultry bones, filleting fish, trimming meats, etc.)? (Please identify as many tasks as you would like.)

This is going to be my primary instrument for the foreseeable future. Lots of fruits and veggies (including onions and citrus), prepped in a variety of ways; most of the meat, poultry and fish that I buy is already cut, though I often do further processing (shaving, slicing, cubing, portioning) prior to cooking; occasionally breaking down whole chickens; slicing/carving meat and poultry for serving

What knife, if any, are you replacing?

Although I currently have a set of low-mid range stainless knives, I want to use this new knife to pretty much replace them all. I will, however, continue to use the paring knife for things like peeling fruit, and the bread knife for, uh, yeah...bread.

Do you have a particular grip that you primarily use? (Please click on this LINK for the common types of grips.)

I'm most comfortable with pinch-grip, but I'm open to experimenting with other grips

What cutting motions do you primarily use? (Please click on this LINK for types of cutting motions and identify the two or three most common cutting motions, in order of most used to least used.)

I often find myself using motions with the knife continuously making contact with the board (rock slicing, rock chopping, mincing, etc.). But I'd like to develop better habits and knife skills.

What improvements do you want from your current knife? If you are not replacing a knife, please identify as many characteristics identified below in parentheses that you would like this knife to have.

Better aesthetics


Comfort


Ease of Use and Care


Edge Retention (i.e., length of time you want the edge to last without sharpening)?

I'm sure anything I get will be an improvement over what I currently have. As a home cook, comfort and edge retention aren't critical (though nevertheless welcome). Aesthetics are only a tertiary consideration, but I prefer minimalistic or rustic over blingy. In terms of ease of use, I'm okay with leveling up my knife maintenance routine (sharpening, oiling, wiping during use, etc.). But I also don't want a knife that requires extreme babying.

KNIFE MAINTENANCE
Do you use a bamboo, wood, rubber, or synthetic cutting board?

Bamboo for now. But after the new knife, my next kitchen purchase will be a better board.

Do you sharpen your own knives? (Yes or no.)

Currently, no.

If not, are you interested in learning how to sharpen your knives?

Yes!

Are you interested in purchasing sharpening products for your knives? (Yes or no.)

Yes!

SPECIAL REQUESTS/COMMENTS

After much research, I've basically narrowed down my quest to two contenders (though I'm open to other suggestions): Tanaka ginsan nashiji 210 gyuto (from K&S) or Munetoshi kurouchi gyuto 210 (from JNS). They both get a lot of love from internet aficionados. With shipping factored in, they are both roughly at the same price point. My biggest dilemma comes down to steel type: ginsan vs white#2. The romantic in me loves the idea of full on carbon steel, but from a practical standpoint the ginsan seems like the better option. I'd love to hear your opinions. Bonus if any of you fine folks have direct experience with either (or both) knives, and can comment on things like f&f, profile, grind, and what not.

Here're some worth considering:

https://www.japaneseknifeimports.co...als/products/gesshin-stainless-210mm-wa-gyuto[great vendor, forgiving steel, comes with saya]

https://mtckitchen.com/yoshimi-kato-aogami-super-kurouchi-gyuto-210mm-8-2/[this a tad over budget; I've the 240 version, very good knife, stainless clad]

https://knifewear.com/products/mazaki-w2-nashiji-gyuto-210mm?variant=4370961367068[if not afraid of carbon, Mazaki could be an option, I'm a fan of his knives]

The red handle Takamuras I saw the other day at MTC are very good knives, ...if into western handles.

===

Also, no worries if you don't sharpen, it's not a requirement for owning a J-knife. Just send it out to be sharpened by a skilled sharpener who is used to working on Japanese knives.

 

[brimmergj]

Similar to what Humble stated, I was also hesitant to go full carbon. I was so afraid that the knife would rust almost instantly if I wasn't extremely careful. I finally purchased my first full carbon (Munetoshi 210) and quickly realized the rusting I was worried about was not the case. Once you're finished, wash and wipe dry and you should be fine
It is a great blade and a will make heck of a first j-knife. I thought it would be delicate and fragile, but that was not the case either. They are a great balance of lightness and ruggedness; not too light, but not too heavy. I'll shoot you a message, if you wanted to try a 210 munetoshi before the bday celebration.

I would vote for the 240, as you have the santoku and the 8" knife already. It took a few years, but I'm finding that I rarely reach for my 8"/210mm blades. I'm a home cook and like the balance and edge profile of the longer blades. It's a very slippery slope, but you'll never know if you like the length unless you try.

Stainless cladding won't give you the patina that many find attractive and can be a pain when thinning for maintenance.

 

[HumbleHomeCook]

Wow, thank you for this detailed and very helpful advice. I've got lots to think about. And now I'm getting the push I needed to go carbon. Damn the torpedoes indeed!

That Shapton 1000 has actually been sitting in my Amazon cart for a few days. I might as well just pull that trigger and start practicing on the stainless knives I already own.

I've read many good things about both Yoshikane and Wakui, but it's interesting to know that they are both on the delicate side. The utilitarian nature of the Munetoshi is appealing.

So now I have a couple more questions:

1) Are there any downsides to stainless cladding as opposed to monocarbon or iron cladding? Somehow I got the impression that stainless cladding is divisive.

2) If I go with the Munetoshi it turns out that the price of the 240mm actually qualifies for free shipping, effectively making it a free upgrade from the 210mm. I currently use an 8" chefs knife most often, and I even use the 7" santoku a lot for things like making salads. I was thinking that a 210 gyuto would be most comfortable given what I'm used to. I don't work in a pro kitchen, and don't do gallons of prep; at the most I'm making dinner for two +leftovers. Do you think I would find a 240mm cow sword unwieldy?

3) Is the Shapton 1000 a big improvement over the 1000/3000 combo stone they carry at JCK?

The only thing I'd say to consider with stainless cladding is when the time comes to thin it, the soft stainless can be a pain, especially with the mix-match of the carbon core. Now, barring the need to just play or personalize, you may well not have to worry about thinning for sometime. And of course, it is entirely doable, it's just that mono or iron cladding is nicer. I no way would I let this stop you from buying a stainless clad knife you like.

Size is, um, a personal preference. There is a strong contingent here that prefers the bigger is better philosophy. Their arguments are sound, if they work for you. Me? I actually prefer knives in the 165-180mm range. I'm a home cook for two and don't have a lot of space and I just like the control and nimbleness of the shorter blades. But this will be completely up to you and your circumstances. If you're really comfortable with an 8" (210) and have the space, then you may well like 240's.

I can't help with the stone question as I've never used the JCK stone. In general, I avoid combo stones as one side always wears at a different rate than the other.

 

[Captain Mack]

Here're some worth considering:

https://www.japaneseknifeimports.co...als/products/gesshin-stainless-210mm-wa-gyuto[great vendor, forgiving steel, comes with saya]

https://mtckitchen.com/yoshimi-kato-aogami-super-kurouchi-gyuto-210mm-8-2/[this a tad over budget; I've the 240 version, very good knife, stainless clad]

https://knifewear.com/products/mazaki-w2-nashiji-gyuto-210mm?variant=4370961367068[if not afraid of carbon, Mazaki could be an option, I'm a fan of his knives]

View attachment 250480
The red handle Takamuras I saw the other day at MTC are very good knives, ...if into western handles.

===

Also, no worries if you don't sharpen, it's not a requirement for owning a J-knife. Just send it out to be sharpened by a skilled sharpener who is used to working on Japanese knives.

Some more great options to make any already difficult decision even harder! That Mazaki looks lovely and within my price range. Munetoshi is currently my front runner. But now I'll spend some time reading up about Mazaki.

 

[Captain Mack]

Similar to what Humble stated, I was also hesitant to go full carbon. I was so afraid that the knife would rust almost instantly if I wasn't extremely careful. I finally purchased my first full carbon (Munetoshi 210) and quickly realized the rusting I was worried about was not the case. Once you're finished, wash and wipe dry and you should be fine
It is a great blade and a will make heck of a first j-knife. I thought it would be delicate and fragile, but that was not the case either. They are a great balance of lightness and ruggedness; not too light, but not too heavy. I'll shoot you a message, if you wanted to try a 210 munetoshi before the bday celebration.

I would vote for the 240, as you have the santoku and the 8" knife already. It took a few years, but I'm finding that I rarely reach for my 8"/210mm blades. I'm a home cook and like the balance and edge profile of the longer blades. It's a very slippery slope, but you'll never know if you like the length unless you try.

Stainless cladding won't give you the patina that many find attractive and can be a pain when thinning for maintenance.

You are too kind, especially considering that I'm brand new to the forums! Just replied to your dm.

Your experiences with the Munetoshi are very encouraging. I'm leaning most in that direction now.

 

[Captain Mack]

The only thing I'd say to consider with stainless cladding is when the time comes to thin it, the soft stainless can be a pain, especially with the mix-match of the carbon core. Now, barring the need to just play or personalize, you may well not have to worry about thinning for sometime. And of course, it is entirely doable, it's just that mono or iron cladding is nicer. I no way would I let this stop you from buying a stainless clad knife you like.

Size is, um, a personal preference. There is a strong contingent here that prefers the bigger is better philosophy. Their arguments are sound, if they work for you. Me? I actually prefer knives in the 165-180mm range. I'm a home cook for two and don't have a lot of space and I just like the control and nimbleness of the shorter blades. But this will be completely up to you and your circumstances. If you're really comfortable with an 8" (210) and have the space, then you may well like 240's.

I can't help with the stone question as I've never used the JCK stone. In general, I avoid combo stones as one side always wears at a different rate than the other.

Thank you again. I really appreciate your taking the time to give guidance to a knife novice like myself. I'm generally not a "bigger is better" person, and I don't have the counter space to accommodate a large cutting board. So perhaps I should stick with 210 for now.

 

[DitmasPork]

The only thing I'd say to consider with stainless cladding is when the time comes to thin it, the soft stainless can be a pain, especially with the mix-match of the carbon core. Now, barring the need to just play or personalize, you may well not have to worry about thinning for sometime. And of course, it is entirely doable, it's just that mono or iron cladding is nicer. I no way would I let this stop you from buying a stainless clad knife you like.

Size is, um, a personal preference. There is a strong contingent here that prefers the bigger is better philosophy. Their arguments are sound, if they work for you. Me? I actually prefer knives in the 165-180mm range. I'm a home cook for two and don't have a lot of space and I just like the control and nimbleness of the shorter blades. But this will be completely up to you and your circumstances. If you're really comfortable with an 8" (210) and have the space, then you may well like 240's.

I can't help with the stone question as I've never used the JCK stone. In general, I avoid combo stones as one side always wears at a different rate than the other.

Totally agree with your comment regarding size—everyone has their knife length comfort zone. I've heard people say that 210s are better for home cooks—which is not always true, it is making assumptions on how the cook cooks, and what they cook. I.e. some pro chefs I know prefer 210s; similarly there’re home cooks that love 270s.

For me, 225 edge length is my jam.

I'm also a carbon lover, view them as lower maintenance than stainless because of easier sharpening. If they get rusted, not a problem to remove it.

 

[HumbleHomeCook]

Thank you again. I really appreciate your taking the time to give guidance to a knife novice like myself. I'm generally not a "bigger is better" person, and I don't have the counter space to accommodate a large cutting board. So perhaps I should stick with 210 for now.

This forum is all about helping each other, new and veteran alike.

Something to keep in mind, is it is quite likely, like so many of us, that you'll end up trying a few knives before really starting zero in on what you like. There's a lot of options and nuances in grinds, sizes, weights, steels, etc.

That's another good reason to start practice sharpening. Don't forget to plan for flattening your sharpening stone before too awful long. There's quite a few options with the Atoma 140 being the most popular. But it can be intimidating early on and Chef Knives To Go has cheaper options to get you started.

Also, on the Yoshi and Wakui, although the primary grind is pretty robust, the edges are very thin. As in, nail flexing thin. Meaning when you press your nail on the side of the very edge it flexes. That's what I meant by "delicate". Not brittle but they need some care to get used to start out.

 

[Captain Mack]

It's a wonderful community here, and I'm happy to have joined!

So would you say that a flattening stone like the Atoma 140 is a higher priority than a finer grit finishing stone? Like, I could get by learning on just the Shapton 1000 and the Atoma 140?

 

[DitmasPork]

It's a wonderful community here, and I'm happy to have joined!

So would you say that a flattening stone like the Atoma 140 is a higher priority than a finer grit finishing stone? Like, I could get by learning on just the Shapton 1000 and the Atoma 140?

Personally, I'd recommend just getting a good mid-grit, or a combo mid/fine stone—you'll probably not be doing much repair work or thinning.

 

[HumbleHomeCook]

It's a wonderful community here, and I'm happy to have joined!

So would you say that a flattening stone like the Atoma 140 is a higher priority than a finer grit finishing stone? Like, I could get by learning on just the Shapton 1000 and the Atoma 140?

Personally, yes.

I frequently finish my edges on a 2k or less.

Higher grits do not equal sharpness per se. You have to have a sharp edge off the lower grit. Then you refine what you've already established. If you don't have an edge off your 1k that performs well for you then no amount of higher grits stones will get it there. You'll just end up with a polished dull edge.

 

[HumbleHomeCook]

Let me also add, that I'm a bit militant about stone flattening. Others are much less so and do fine but I advocate flat stones. It is just one less variable. This is especially important when starting out. As you gain experience you start learning how to use more of your stone to minimize flattening but I just think it is something to not have to worry about early on.

Toss in a red Sharpie for marking your edge bevel to give you a visual of what you're doing and you'll be on your way.

Again, others will likely give different advice. Just different philosophies.

 

[Captain Mack]

@HumbleHomeCook and @DitmasPork thanks both for offering your thoughts on beginner sharpening gear. I just ordered a Shapton 1000 for now, and will likely soon also pick up something to keep the stone flattened.

Now I've got to make up my mind about the knife. The Munetoshi and the Mazaki are at the top of my list. Decisions, decisions...

 

[HumbleHomeCook]

If it helps, many folks report Mazaki's cladding is pretty reactive.

 

[Captain Mack]

If it helps, many folks report Mazaki's cladding is pretty reactive.

Good to know!

 

[Rob McKenna]

+1 on the Yoshikane SKD or Wakui/Kochi. CKTG has Wakui in stock for a screamin’ deal right now.

The other knives mentioned in the thread are all top notch choices, so you can’t go wrong however you choose but if the Mazaki and Munetoshi are at the top of your list, I’d say go for the Munetoshi! The ones from JNS have fairly comfy ho wood handles.

 

[Justinv]

Also note the weight. That mazaki was listed at 245g which is way heavier than my preference. Others like some heft.

 

[Delat]

Gotta chime in my support for Yoshikane as well. I haven’t used a Wakui gyuto but I do have one of his nakiris that’s pretty awesome. Takamura is also a great option.

IMHO those will give you that “wow” feeling on the first cut that will totally justify jumping into this hobby. Just don’t abuse them as noted in other posts.

 

[Captain Mack]

+1 on the Yoshikane SKD or Wakui/Kochi. CKTG has Wakui in stock for a screamin’ deal right now.

The other knives mentioned in the thread are all top notch choices, so you can’t go wrong however you choose but if the Mazaki and Munetoshi are at the top of your list, I’d say go for the Munetoshi! The ones from JNS have fairly comfy ho wood handles.

Wow, the Wakuis at CKTG are shockingly affordable. I'm not so enthusiastic about the hammered finish, and I'm a little worried about the "delicate" comments, but at that price the 210 Wakui is up near the top of my list.

So what I'm hearing is that, in general, Munetoshi is more of a robust workhorse, whereas Wakui is more of a delicate laser. Am I getting that right?

 

[Captain Mack]

Also note the weight. That mazaki was listed at 245g which is way heavier than my preference. Others like some heft.

Thanks for pointing that out. 245g is about the same as my current 8" chefs knife. I'm definitely looking for something lighter. So I guess I can scratch that Mazaki off my list.

 

[Justinv]

Another inexpensive option on CKTG is shindo in blue 2 steel. I haven’t used one but they get some praise here.

If looking at cheaper knives many have a cheap handle with a plastic ferrule instead of horn or wood ferrule. Some vendors can do a handle upgrade.