Hi All, Recommendation Please

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psykez

Member
Joined
Jul 17, 2022
Messages
20
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Location
New Zealand
Hi All, the usual newbie questions, there is so much information out there and I'm a bit lost. I thought I wanted a Wusthof Classic but someone suggested maybe not so here goes:

LOCATION
What country are you in?
New Zealand, so my options to trial things are a bit limited, shipping is also pretty limited


KNIFE TYPE
What type of knife are you interested in (e.g., chefs knife, slicer, boning knife, utility knife, bread knife, paring knife, cleaver)?
Chefs knife to start with

Are you right or left handed?
Right

Are you interested in a Western handle (e.g., classic Wusthof handle) or Japanese handle?
Western

What length of knife (blade) are you interested in (in inches or millimeters)?
20cm ish

Do you require a stainless knife? (Yes or no)
Unknown

What is your absolute maximum budget for your knife?
NZ$270



KNIFE USE
Do you primarily intend to use this knife at home or a professional environment?
Home

What are the main tasks you primarily intend to use the knife for (e.g., slicing vegetables, chopping vegetables, mincing vegetables, slicing meats, cutting down poultry, breaking poultry bones, filleting fish, trimming meats, etc.)? (Please identify as many tasks as you would like.)
Vegetables and boneless chicken (slicing and mincing)

What knife, if any, are you replacing?
Off brand heavy santoku

Do you have a particular grip that you primarily use? (Please click on this LINK for the common types of grips.)
Modified pinch grip with index finger on top (I know, horrific, I'm not adverse to retraining myself)

What cutting motions do you primarily use? (Please click on this LINK for types of cutting motions and identify the two or three most common cutting motions, in order of most used to least used.)
Push cut

What improvements do you want from your current knife? If you are not replacing a knife, please identify as many characteristics identified below in parentheses that you would like this knife to have.)
Ability to hold an edge, non metal handle

Better aesthetics (e.g., a certain type of finish; layered/Damascus or other pattern of steel; different handle color/pattern/shape/wood; better scratch resistance; better stain resistance)?
Functionality first but I do like classic wooden handle knives

Comfort (e.g., lighter/heavier knife; better handle material; better handle shape; rounded spine/choil of the knife; improved balance)?
Small handle (damn small hands)
western handle, rounded handles don't feel right

Ease of Use (e.g., ability to use the knife right out of the box; smoother rock chopping, push cutting, or slicing motion; less wedging; better food release; less reactivity with food; easier to sharpen)?
Ability to use out of the box

Edge Retention (i.e., length of time you want the edge to last without sharpening)?
Good retention required



KNIFE MAINTENANCE
Do you use a bamboo, wood, rubber, or synthetic cutting board? (Yes or no.)
Bamboo

Do you sharpen your own knives? (Yes or no.)
No


If not, are you interested in learning how to sharpen your knives? (Yes or no.)
Yes

Are you interested in purchasing sharpening products for your knives? (Yes or no.)
Can do if required
 
Playing off your intro post and this one, and remember I own a few Wusthof Gourmet knives and one exclusively for a couple years, here's some that I would either buy outright over a Wusthof Classic (or Ikon, or Gourmet, or Henkels, etc.) or at least give strong consideration.

These are largely going to be grind and profile based preference:

I own a smaller Pro M and they are nice and slicey:
https://www.epicedge.com/shopexd.asp?id=95820
https://www.epicedge.com/shopexd.asp?id=86741
https://www.epicedge.com/shopexd.asp?id=94114
https://www.knifemerchant.com/product.asp?productID=2912
https://bernalcutlery.com/collectio...a-okd-180mm-gyuto-vg-1?variant=39367971963032
https://bernalcutlery.com/collectio...o-210mm-gyuto-dp-vg-10?variant=36252882960536
https://carbonknifeco.com/collectio...cts/sakai-kikumori-nihonko-carbon-gyuto-210mm
https://carbonknifeco.com/collections/gyuto-chef-knife/products/tsunehisa-aus8-migaki-gyuto-210mm
https://carbonknifeco.com/collections/gyuto-chef-knife/products/takamura-nashiji-gyuto-180mm

I obviously don't have firsthand experience with all of those but the idea is just to get you exploring and thinking.

I would advise a decent intro knife and putting some focus on sharpening. Learn to sharpen and entire new world opens up to you. And they all dull sooner or later. ;)
 
Being in NZ you will be charged a large % of your knife budget for importing a knife from the US.

I would look locally here to see if there is anything that you like the look of. Reach out to the vendor and see if they recommend something for you. You can always check back here for feedback on a particular knife

https://www.prochef.co.nz/
Also there a few vendors in Japan that offer cheap world wide shipping
 
Being in NZ you will be charged a large % of your knife budget for importing a knife from the US.

I would look locally here to see if there is anything that you like the look of. Reach out to the vendor and see if they recommend something for you. You can always check back here for feedback on a particular knife

https://www.prochef.co.nz/
Also there a few vendors in Japan that offer cheap world wide shipping

Thanks heaps, that's a site I hadn't found, so much to look at in there.

I may be going back a bit to what I know based on what I tried instore but any feedback on: MAC Chef Series Chef w/Dimples 200mm – Prochef

OR

https://www.prochef.co.nz/index.php/product/fujiwara-fkm-gyuto-210mm/
Actually even this one? Tojiro DP Chef 210mm – Prochef


And then this set would give me the two knife types we typically argue over at home in the one nice set: Tojiro DP Giftset B – Prochef
 
You wouldn’t go wrong with the Tojiro DP. I was nicely surprised by their easy sharpening, these last years. In addition of a 210 gyuto you may look for a 150 petty. Not so much adding a Santoku, which were highly redundant. Ask for a first stone sharpening prior to delivery. Factory edges tend in general to be weak, and a first stone sharpening gives an edge you may follow once you start your own sharpening.
 
Thanks heaps, that's a site I hadn't found, so much to look at in there.

I may be going back a bit to what I know based on what I tried instore but any feedback on: MAC Chef Series Chef w/Dimples 200mm – Prochef

OR

https://www.prochef.co.nz/index.php/product/fujiwara-fkm-gyuto-210mm/
Actually even this one? Tojiro DP Chef 210mm – Prochef


And then this set would give me the two knife types we typically argue over at home in the one nice set: Tojiro DP Giftset B – Prochef

I personally think you'll be much happier with any of those compared to a Wusthof Gourmet or Classic. Also, no dishwasher and if you put the knife in a drawer, have a means to protect the edge.

Don't forget about a sharpening plan. Whether you do it or pay someone is alright but have a plan. And no, pull through sharpeners are not a plan. :p
 
You wouldn’t go wrong with the Tojiro DP. I was nicely surprised by their easy sharpening, these last years. In addition of a 210 gyuto you may look for a 150 petty. Not so much adding a Santoku, which were highly redundant. Ask for a first stone sharpening prior to delivery. Factory edges tend in general to be weak, and a first stone sharpening gives an edge you may follow once you start your own sharpening.


Thanks heaps. There is method in my madness on the santoku, if I get that set the husband will end up with the santoku therefore leaving mine alone 🤣🤣😇

Perfect advice on the pre-sharpening, I see they offer that too so I will ask. I'll add the petty in as well, that should make for a more than decent startup set?

As for learning to sharpen, I'm guessing there's an easyish path to follow to learn instead of me delving the wrong way down a youtube/google hole of doom?
 
I personally think you'll be much happier with any of those compared to a Wusthof Gourmet or Classic. Also, no dishwasher and if you put the knife in a drawer, have a means to protect the edge.

Don't forget about a sharpening plan. Whether you do it or pay someone is alright but have a plan. And no, pull through sharpeners are not a plan. :p

Can honestly say I have never considered a pull through sharpener. However I do need to work out what I need and how is best to learn so I will probably pay someone the first couple of times. I can however use the old knives for practice (and keep them as beaters, they were a nightmare but on the up side I won't care what happens to them now)
 
Can honestly say I have never considered a pull through sharpener. However I do need to work out what I need and how is best to learn so I will probably pay someone the first couple of times. I can however use the old knives for practice (and keep them as beaters, they were a nightmare but on the up side I won't care what happens to them now)

Synthetic splash and go (vs soaking) stones are pretty attractive for starting out. A stone holder is very nice but you can set the stone on a brick or chunk of wood to start. A good mid-grit like a 1k or 2k is a nice start. A flattening stone is pretty much mandatory in my opinion.

We can get deeper into budget-oriented setups if/when you decide to explore. People will have lots of opinions and recommendations.

Keep in mind, soft stainless can actually be more difficult to sharpen than a decently hardened, thinner geometry knife.
 
Also, my advice in regards to sharpening videos is to avoid Burrfection on YouTube. Others may disagree but I firmly believe you can find much better resources. Japanese Knife Imports has very good videos and the folks here are awesome about helping.

You can do it. It is something that can be quite challenging to master, but is not that hard to do on a functional basis.
 
Synthetic splash and go (vs soaking) stones are pretty attractive for starting out. A stone holder is very nice but you can set the stone on a brick or chunk of wood to start. A good mid-grit like a 1k or 2k is a nice start. A flattening stone is pretty much mandatory in my opinion.

We can get deeper into budget-oriented setups if/when you decide to explore. People will have lots of opinions and recommendations.

Keep in mind, soft stainless can actually be more difficult to sharpen than a decently hardened, thinner geometry knife.

Thanks so much, I will get the knives and then make a new post asking about the sharpening
 
I learned the most from the JKI sharpening series and the knifeplanet.net sharpening school (thanks once again go to @JBroida and @Sailor for putting these together).

IIRC, the video of @Sailor's that improved my sharpening most (the one on abrading the burr by gradual pressure reduction) is at the end of the JKI sharpening series.

Don't sweat sharpening stone selection too much. Definitely get some guidance on the forums, but I'm just saying that there are lots of good choices (quite a few bad ones as well, I guess). They do have different characteristics (splash and go, ability to abrade high alloy/ stainless steels, resistance to loading, dishing characteristics, tactile and auditory feedback, hardness....) but you will get used to these. In the end, your developing skill is much more important than the actual stones.

Probably the most important things to decide are: Splash and go vs soaker and whether you need to sharpen stainless steels. And what is easily available to you (stones are heavy and expensive to ship).
 
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I learned the most from the JKI sharpening series and the knifeplanet.net sharpening school (thanks once again go to @JBroida and @Sailor for putting these together).

IIRC, the video of @Sailor's that improved my sharpening most (the one on abrading the burr by gradual pressure reduction) is at the end of the JKI sharpening series.
Perfect, I will start there, thanks all, this place is SUPER helpful for a newbie.
 
Being in NZ you will be charged a large % of your knife budget for importing a knife from the US.

I would look locally here to see if there is anything that you like the look of. Reach out to the vendor and see if they recommend something for you. You can always check back here for feedback on a particular knife

https://www.prochef.co.nz/
Also there a few vendors in Japan that offer cheap world wide shipping


I wanted to give you a second thanks for this, a recommendation for a good site in my country is well and truly going above and beyond.
 
I wanted to give you a second thanks for this, a recommendation for a good site in my country is well and truly going above and beyond.
FWIW, Knivesandstones.com.au will ship stones to NZ.
 
How hard will you get hit with taxes and fees from Australia? Japan? There's Knives and Stones and Protooling in Australia.
 
I have both the Tojiro DP and Mac Pro Gyuto with dimples (MTH-80). If you favor push cutting, Tojiro will be your best bet. The Mac has a pretty aggressive curve towards the tip for rocking.
 
I have both the Tojiro DP and Mac Pro Gyuto with dimples (MTH-80). If you favor push cutting, Tojiro will be your best bet. The Mac has a pretty aggressive curve towards the tip for rocking.
Thanks, I'm certainly leaning towards the Tojiro DP. I have seen a lot of great feedback on the Mac but not enough to make me want to cross into that price bracket for it.

This is likely the start of a long and expensive journey so I am under no illusions that things won't stay "cheap n cheerful"
 
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