High end knife shops hurting the industry.

[superworrier]

Honestly without the rare stuff and the hunting this would all be less enjoyable. You would just buy your grail knife and that would be it, nothing left to discuss. You can’t have the pleasure without the pain.

I think someone else alluded to this: certain knives being rare makes them more exciting. The hype makes it hard to get but also makes it more exciting to get when you do land it. If you disagree, then there’s a ton of great knives with less hype. As long as the makers aren’t being taken advantage of

 

[WPerry]

I hate it when shops, within the industry, buy products from makers, that are also within in the industry, and sell those goods to enthusiasts of the industry, thereby hurting the industry.

I wish it would stop.

 

[jedy617]

I hate it when shops, within the industry, buy products from makers, that are also within in the industry, and sell those goods to enthusiasts of the industry, thereby hurting the industry.

I wish it would stop.

Come on, if people read his original post it mentioned two gripes really. Established stores flipping knives they bought either at a show or from other sources besides direct from the maker meant for resale (which is very common unfortunately). Or retailers charging way more compared to other retailers, or the original maker. Both of those are bad.

I go to knife shows for pocket knives, where authorized retailers will buy a knife for $1600 table price and sell it on their website for $3500 even when they already get their own direct special stock from the maker. Or even more extreme, $5000 table buy from a retailer who gets in before doors open, and sells for $15k. The OP mentioned stuff like this, retailers buying at shows meant for collectors/enthusiasts which I also, really really hate.

 

[WPerry]

Come on, if people read his original post it mentioned two gripes really. Established stores flipping knives they bought either at a show or from other sources besides direct from the maker meant for resale (which is very common unfortunately). Or retailers charging way more compared to other retailers, or the original maker. Both of those are bad.

Neither of these things are "hurting the industry." Let's call it like it is - it's hurting the OP's chances of snagging something that they covet at a price that's palatable to them. If anything, it's showing makers that they may be undervaluing their own work. Frustrating? Sure. Bad for the industry? I don't see it.

 

[gregfisk]

Neither of these things are "hurting the industry." Let's call it like it is - it's hurting the OP's chances of snagging something that they covet at a price that's palatable to them. If anything, it's showing makers that they may be undervaluing their own work. Frustrating? Sure. Bad for the industry? I don't see it.

If you want to talk about what hurts the industry it’s fairly simple. What hurts any industry is people not willing to pay enough for the product to sustain the companies who are making the products. The reason for this is fairly simple. If no one is willing to pay for a quality product then what you’re going to end up with is a subpar product. This has been going on for decades now. Custom high end quality products cost more to produce and if no one is willing to pay for them they will go away. Look at how many crappy knives are on the market today. In fact most knives on the market are pretty damn crappy. Most people don’t really care about really nice knives. If people like the kkf crowd didn’t exist you wouldn’t even be able to find these custom high end knives we’re all talking about.

 

[jedy617]

Neither of these things are "hurting the industry." Let's call it like it is - it's hurting the OP's chances of snagging something that they covet at a price that's palatable to them. If anything, it's showing makers that they may be undervaluing their own work. Frustrating? Sure. Bad for the industry? I don't see it.

I just read his original post again which I feel like no one did. He didn't say anything about hurting the industry. He was honest and said it was hurting his own chances on something he wanted. Maybe someone else said that down the line?

 

[WPerry]

I just read his original post again which I feel like no one did. He didn't say anything about hurting the industry. He was honest and said it was hurting his own chances on something he wanted. Maybe someone else said that down the line?

It's a direct quote from his thread title.

 

[Migraine]

He didn't say anything about hurting the industry.

Might want to read the title of the thread

 

[jedy617]

I read it. But again in his complaints specified he was honest and said it was effecting him directly.

 

[jedy617]

Regardless I think it's a double edged sword. Increased pricing can help makers and stores profit, and allow them to produce more/better quality goods. Priced too high and it is actually bad for the industry if people stop buying.

I think that's case closed from my point of view.

 

[Hockey3081]

Should we lock this thread up now that Jedy has proclaimed it case closed?

 

[jedy617]

Should we lock this thread up now that Jedy has proclaimed it case closed?

Who are you? Also someone who can't read the "my point of view"

 

[HumbleHomeCook]

Regardless I think it's a double edged sword. Increased pricing can help makers and stores profit, and allow them to produce more/better quality goods. Priced too high and it is actually bad for the industry if people stop buying.

I think that's case closed from my point of view.

By what means would you like this balanced or decided upon?

 

[jedy617]

By what means would you like this balanced or decided upon?

No idea. I'm not sure there is a correct way for it to be balanced artificially. Just have to wait for fads to die out I guess. Maybe they never will.

 

[HumbleHomeCook]

No idea. I'm not sure there is a correct way for it to be balanced artificially. Just have to wait for fads to die out I guess. Maybe they never will.

Oh you can attempt to "balance" it artificially but that rarely ends well. The market decides. Buyers decide. That's how it gets sorted out. If there are sufficient buyers buying at a given price to sustain the industry over time, then those who cannot afford to buy in that space are left out.

However, if the buyers are not willing to pay that price, especially if they have lower priced options for the same product, then then the high priced dealer either adjusts or dies.

 

[jedy617]

Oh you can attempt to "balance" it artificially but that rarely ends well. The market decides. Buyers decide. That's how it gets sorted out. If there are sufficient buyers buying at a given price to sustain the industry over time, then those who cannot afford to buy in that space are left out.

However, if the buyers are not willing to pay that price, especially if they have lower priced options for the same product, then then the high priced dealer either adjusts or dies.

Yeah that's what I'm saying. It does self balance...usually. Unlike Kramer I don't think that hype will ever die

 

[WPerry]

Regardless I think it's a double edged sword. Increased pricing can help makers and stores profit, and allow them to produce more/better quality goods. Priced too high and it is actually bad for the industry if people stop buying.

I think that's case closed from my point of view.

So you think that consumers interested in the goods simply become disinterested because they're out-priced? You don't think that they look at more affordable options? Do you think that other makers recognize areas of opportunity if offerings in certain pricing segments are soft?

"That Pagani is too expensive - I'm not buying a car."

 

[HumbleHomeCook]

Yeah that's what I'm saying. It does self balance...usually. Unlike Kramer I don't think that hype will ever die

What you call hype, the market calls value. The Kramer market is balanced.

 

[jedy617]

So you think that consumers interested in the goods simply become disinterested because they're out-priced? You don't think that they look at more affordable options? Do you think that other makers recognize areas of opportunity if offerings in certain pricing segments are soft?

"That Pagani is too expensive - I'm not buying a car."

Completely. I collect more luxury goods than anyone on here probably. Real collectors who have money, and yet is not endless do actually care about value. Look up what a Submariner 116610LV is going for right now. I'm not paying that price. I still have one. Look what a shirogorov custom folder runs. I'll pay 10k for one, but 18k is too much. There is always an upper limit for most collectors on what they will spend. I am shooting for a rexford custom folder but I'm not paying the auction price of 38k. That's just dumb.

There are almost always upper limits. Tosho could sell FM's for $1200, and a Kaiju for $4k. They will get buyers the first go around. I don't think they would sell out or be able to sustain that price.

 

[jedy617]

What you call hype, the market calls value. The Kramer market is balanced.

Value lol. Maybe a Kramer for 25-30k. Not 50k.

 

[HumbleHomeCook]

Value lol. Maybe a Kramer for 25-30k. Not 50k.

I didn't say it was your value. I said it was the market's value. He keeps selling everything he makes.

Same with Chelsea Miller.

 

[jedy617]

I didn't say it was your value. I said it was the market's value. He keeps selling everything he makes.

Same with Chelsea Miller.

And again, I agree it is market value. It is still hype though. The two are not contradictory

 

[HumbleHomeCook]

And again, I agree it is market value. It is still hype though. The two are not contradictory

But the hype doesn't matter. The market has decided that is the value of his work. Someone may want one real bad but think those prices are insane and/or not have the money. Well, that's a bummer but that's reality.

I wouldn't take a free Kramer and I think the prices paid for his work are stupid, but I'm obviously not in that market and what other folks do with their money is up to them.

 

[jedy617]

Well the hype does matter then. You said it yourself, you would not take a free kramer and you say the price is stupid. So you are saying they are hyped. That is what causes the market price. For me, I will take a damascus kramer for 5k. Thus I want the hype to die, and the market to shift with it. If there is no hype at a current price, then the market shifts.

Regardless we are at the point of semantics. I'm of the stance that makers should charge what they want to make a good living. I will shop at a dealer to get what I want and pay more for it, as long as the price isn't exorbitantly higher. Dealers should be able to make a profit. I do not like dealers buying knives at shows and then flipping them for more money, or dealers charging a lot more compared to other shops. The last part is easy though, I just won't buy from that shop.

 

[HumbleHomeCook]

...

Regardless we are at the point of semantics. I'm of the stance that makers should charge what they want to make a good living. I will shop at a dealer to get what I want and pay more for it, as long as the price isn't exorbitantly higher. Dealers should be able to make a profit. I do not like dealers buying knives at shows and then flipping them for more money, or dealers charging a lot more compared to other shops. The last part is easy though, I just won't buy from that shop.

On this, we agree!

 

[M1k3]

By what means would you like this balanced or decided upon?

Fisticuffs!

 

[jedy617]

Fisticuffs!

Can I choose a champion to engage in fisticuffs for me?

 

[M1k3]

Can I choose a champion to engage in fisticuffs for me?

Only if you bow out gracefully from the discussion.

 

[WPerry]

Completely. I collect more luxury goods than anyone on here probably. Real collectors who have money, and yet is not endless do actually care about value. Look up what a Submariner 116610LV is going for right now. I'm not paying that price. I still have one. Look what a shirogorov custom folder runs. I'll pay 10k for one, but 18k is too much. There is always an upper limit for most collectors on what they will spend. I am shooting for a rexford custom folder but I'm not paying the auction price of 38k. That's just dumb.

There are almost always upper limits. Tosho could sell FM's for $1200, and a Kaiju for $4k. They will get buyers the first go around. I don't think they would sell out or be able to sustain that price.

"No one goes there any more - it's too crowded."

Sorry, not a good defense of it "hurting the industry." You're simply taking a myopic view that values that don't align with your own must be bad because you intrinsically know what's good.

 

[jedy617]

"No one goes there any more - it's too crowded."

Sorry, not a good defense of it "hurting the industry." You're simply taking a myopic view that values that don't align with your own must be bad because you intrinsically know what's good.

I do intrinsically know what's good and bad, my therapist says that it's something called a god complex? Anyway she's probably wrong because I'm smarter than her.

@M1k3 sorry I'm a have my cake and eat it too kind of guy. And make mine a schwarzwälder kirschtorte please.