Is adding a 3000-4000 grit stone going to be any benefit to a beginner?

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Hualicopter

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I got what I believe is a ceramic 1000 grit stone when I purchased my knives from Kama Asa. I am planning to sharpen my Gyuto which I believe is Shirogami #2, but I also want to sharpen my older knives which include 9Cr18MoV and whatever a Zwilling Nakiri is. From what I've read, in theory I should be able to get away with just the 1000 grit, but at the same time I've also been told there's less risk learning to sharpen with the higher grits by taking off less material, and I'd be able to do touch ups more frequently.

Cost isn't an issue (no super expensive JNS though haha). At the moment I'm contemplating SG3000 or maybe a soaking stone.
 
You can get away with 1k for many things. Zwilling knives with 9Cr18MoV or similar I wouldn't go higher and there is something to be said for getting good with just one stone. If you can get good with 1k then higher will be fine too. I disagree with higher grit being friendlier to the beginners. It is true you will take off less metal, but for successful sharpening you need to be consistent and it is harder to be consistent when any sharpening takes many passes which on dull knives 3k stones will require. If the knife is already sharp and you just want to touch up then 3k is fine, but if you have to grind for a while you will get frustrated and won't get good results. Start with 1k, and as you get better with it add more stones.
 
You can get away with 1k for many things. Zwilling knives with 9Cr18MoV or similar I wouldn't go higher and there is something to be said for getting good with just one stone. If you can get good with 1k then higher will be fine too. I disagree with higher grit being friendlier to the beginners. It is true you will take off less metal, but for successful sharpening you need to be consistent and it is harder to be consistent when any sharpening takes many passes which on dull knives 3k stones will require. If the knife is already sharp and you just want to touch up then 3k is fine, but if you have to grind for a while you will get frustrated and won't get good results. Start with 1k, and as you get better with it add more stones.
+1.

Get a 1k and practice on it until you're getting consistent results. Then keep practicing until you're getting great results. *Then* you can start derping around with all the other nonsense we spend our money on 😂
 
i found a 4k stone very useful early on. not for sharpening per se, but for bringing back an edge to life with light touch ups.

.
 
You can get away with 1k for many things. Zwilling knives with 9Cr18MoV or similar I wouldn't go higher and there is something to be said for getting good with just one stone. If you can get good with 1k then higher will be fine too. I disagree with higher grit being friendlier to the beginners. It is true you will take off less metal, but for successful sharpening you need to be consistent and it is harder to be consistent when any sharpening takes many passes which on dull knives 3k stones will require. If the knife is already sharp and you just want to touch up then 3k is fine, but if you have to grind for a while you will get frustrated and won't get good results. Start with 1k, and as you get better with it add more stones.

+1

I would add that once you can create a sharp, well deburred edge (one that can reliably slice kitchen paper towel) on a 1k stone, you will get some benefit from refining the edge on 3k or similar. As long as the steel can take it.
 
To close the feedback loop, after the 1k stone some people would get Sharpie, loupe, microscope so they can see what is happening at the edge. Others would skip that as too fussy and take feedback off actual cutting.
 
Is a strop something essential or another nice to have thing?
A strop is useful if you are struggling to deburr fully. eg. it can be challenging to deburr softer stainless and could help in this regard.

You can easily make your own if you want to save some money.
 
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gesshin 2k soaker.
This is the way!

But really, like others said - I'd stick with the 1k for a while until you get consistent results. Throwing another stone in the mix might be just more information to swallow.

Having said that, I really like the 3-4k range for finishing kitchen knives and there are many great options (Shapton, Gesshin, Morihei, etc). I like it better than 6k stones for most kitchen applications.

My first stone was a 1k and the second actually a SG220. I tipped and chipped a couple of knives so needed it for repairs lol.
 
I am a beginner, I have mostly low carbon stainless knifes, but I am buying more stones than I need. Why you may ask?

Not knowing better is one thing, but really, I like the act of sharpening, and I want to experience it in all the ways!

However there are things you might overlook. Here are some things that I would however recommend for a beginner, and you don't need to spend much to get them.
  • Cheap jewellers loupe 30x and/or 60x range so you can close the feedback loop (ha, ha) on why something does/doesn't cut $10 is enough no need spend more.
  • Strop of some sort, so that can be a $30 bench strop, but equally a bunch of things you might already have lying about, like a cork (draw edge through it), or an old leather belt, or a strip of clean MDF board (you can draw a blade through the grainy edge or use it like a flat bench strop), or just a piece of cardboard. You might want to add a $5-$10 chunk of chromium oxide but you don't even need that to start with on many of these options. A strop, or something with some compliance to just take up the inconsistencies you have as a beginner is not a bad thing.
  • A courser stone for dull knives, I have a SG320, but something in the 320 to 500 range probably is good to clean up knives that haven't seen any sharpening for years, and a 220 is good for chips and tip repairs. No need to spend lots on fancy stones, and this could be some 320grit sandpaper on a piece of board, which you might already have.
  • Some clean cloths, get a few new microfibre cloths or similar so you can keep them clean and free of abrasive for wiping blades, or sitting stones on, or whatever. Women appreciate not having their favourite kitchen textiles trashed with your new hyper focus (or so I hear).
  • Bottle for clean water, I use a recycled small squeezy bottle, and can be better than running a tap for just topping up the stone, allows you to work away from sink.
  • Method to dress the stone(s). Silicone Carbide powder on glass, 120 or 240 grit silicone carbide paper on something flat, or a cheap diamond plate (mine was $35), or even just pretty regular use of something like the Naniwa dressing stone I've come to quite like and is only $10 or so.
  • Some of that rubber mesh grippy mat stuff. It good for putting a stone one (maybe on a brick if you don't have stand), good for protecting a work top, good for putting knives on etc, less than $10.
  • A box to put all your stuff in to keep it out the way and keep the other adults in your environment on board with your interest.
Like everything in life you tick all the boxes on a tight budget, or maybe you choose not to, that choice is yours though.

Good luck!
 
I am a beginner, I have mostly low carbon stainless knifes, but I am buying more stones than I need. Why you may ask?

Not knowing better is one thing, but really, I like the act of sharpening, and I want to experience it in all the ways!

However there are things you might overlook. Here are some things that I would however recommend for a beginner, and you don't need to spend much to get them.
  • Cheap jewellers loupe 30x and/or 60x range so you can close the feedback loop (ha, ha) on why something does/doesn't cut $10 is enough no need spend more.
  • Strop of some sort, so that can be a $30 bench strop, but equally a bunch of things you might already have lying about, like a cork (draw edge through it), or an old leather belt, or a strip of clean MDF board (you can draw a blade through the grainy edge or use it like a flat bench strop), or just a piece of cardboard. You might want to add a $5-$10 chunk of chromium oxide but you don't even need that to start with on many of these options. A strop, or something with some compliance to just take up the inconsistencies you have as a beginner is not a bad thing.
  • A courser stone for dull knives, I have a SG320, but something in the 320 to 500 range probably is good to clean up knives that haven't seen any sharpening for years, and a 220 is good for chips and tip repairs. No need to spend lots on fancy stones, and this could be some 320grit sandpaper on a piece of board, which you might already have.
  • Some clean cloths, get a few new microfibre cloths or similar so you can keep them clean and free of abrasive for wiping blades, or sitting stones on, or whatever. Women appreciate not having their favourite kitchen textiles trashed with your new hyper focus (or so I hear).
  • Bottle for clean water, I use a recycled small squeezy bottle, and can be better than running a tap for just topping up the stone, allows you to work away from sink.
  • Method to dress the stone(s). Silicone Carbide powder on glass, 120 or 240 grit silicone carbide paper on something flat, or a cheap diamond plate (mine was $35), or even just pretty regular use of something like the Naniwa dressing stone I've come to quite like and is only $10 or so.
  • Some of that rubber mesh grippy mat stuff. It good for putting a stone one (maybe on a brick if you don't have stand), good for protecting a work top, good for putting knives on etc, less than $10.
  • A box to put all your stuff in to keep it out the way and keep the other adults in your environment on board with your interest.
Like everything in life you tick all the boxes on a tight budget, or maybe you choose not to, that choice is yours though.

Good luck!
Keep in mind that all cheap Chinese loupes are 10x regardless of their sales pitch. A genuine 20x loupe has optics about 7mm in diameter.

Otherwise, good info!
 
Hmm, so maybe an SG500 wouldn't be the worst purchase? I have some older knives that could definitely really use a sharpening, and I would actually prefer to practice on these before I start sharpening my gyuto.

I do plan on buying an Atoma 140. I'll grab a strop off of Amazon, had some pretty good luck with them when I was previously trying out sharpening planes.

I got a Kasfly bridge and have a food prep tray on the way so I should be good in that aspect!
 
SG500 is universally loved.

If you’re exploring the retail landscape you might keep your eyes peeled for a Shapton Rockstar 500. If it’s any cheaper, grab that instead.

As others have noted, and Michelle Obama almost said, you can go high after you go low. I’d round out the 220, 500 range before going to 2K, 6K, 16K.
 
Hmm, so maybe an SG500 wouldn't be the worst purchase?
Just throwing it out here... you mentioned using higher grit stones because there would be "less risk," and I assure you a SG500 is much more risky, especially if you're just starting out. You're as likely to change the geometry and completely muck up your older knives as you are to effectively sharpen them.

You don't need a loupe, you don't a strop, you don't need a course stone, you don't need separate microfiber towels, you don't need a specific bottle for specific sharpening water, you *definitely* don't need an Atoma, or a specific mat to hold your stuff in place.

You need a rock and practice holding an angle. A wet shop towel will hold your rock in place. A coffee mug will hold your water. If you do it so long you dish your rock, a $2 tile with a 50 cent piece of drywall screen will flatten it. A wine cork will take care of any stubborn burrs.

I understand the urge to go ham on a hobby, and by all means splurge if it makes you happy... but until you can pull a consistent burr, flip it a few times, and remove it... you're puttin the cart before the horse and adding a lot of variables to an equation you haven't solved.
 
Hmm, so maybe an SG500 wouldn't be the worst purchase? I have some older knives that could definitely really use a sharpening, and I would actually prefer to practice on these before I start sharpening my gyuto.
In my opinion SG500 would be a great one-stone choice to refine your technique and a better choice than a 1000 grit. Obviously you already have the 1000 grit, so there is the added expense but you'll probably want to have that stone at some point anyway right?

Other than that I agree with @Vertigo . If you can improve your technique with one stone and develop the skills to keep the angle constant and deburr effectively then the rest can follow later.
 
as a beginner myself,

I definitely ‘overbought’ stones…

Echoing points above I found that even just sandpaper eg p180 on glass was good for getting chips out etc. I bought an atoma 400 which I use for coarse work eg regular kitchen knives initial sharpening. The shapton 1000 is v good and I use the atoma 400 to flatten it.

What I have been surprised by is how much a Naniwa 3000 stone has added - it’s really effective once I have finished on the 1000. I really ‘enjoy’ using it and seeing the difference it makes.

What has been overkill was I also bought a lovely finishing JNAT which is meant to be around 10k. To be honest I don’t really know what I am doing with that. Stropping after 3k seems to be the max effect for me so far. (Any tips anyone??)

+1 for a water bottle and using jeans / leather other materials for stropping, you don’t need to buy specifically.

I’ve found this thread very helpful, thank you.
 
Hmm, so maybe an SG500 wouldn't be the worst purchase? I have some older knives that could definitely really use a sharpening, and I would actually prefer to practice on these before I start sharpening my gyuto.

I do plan on buying an Atoma 140. I'll grab a strop off of Amazon, had some pretty good luck with them when I was previously trying out sharpening planes.

I got a Kasfly bridge and have a food prep tray on the way so I should be good in that aspect!

As you've likely detected by now through this and other postings, there are various school's of thought on the many aspects of sharpening. And as different as many of them can be, it doesn't mean that a lot of it is right or wrong. It's just different. There's a lot of paths to get to the same destination. The trick is finding the one that works for you. Sometimes we try multiple before looking back and realizing what path we could've taken. But we don't know what we don't know and need to learn it to know.

I'm a fan of coarser stones. As you've noted and many others have supported, there is vey much a philosophy of using higher grit stones to learn on as the risk of significant mistakes is less. I get it. It's a fine approach and a path many take successfully. I just feel differently. @Deadboxhero was the first guy I heard talk about time on stones. Very loosely, the idea is, the more time you spend on the stone, the greater your chances of messing something up. I very much subscribe to this idea and it influences me to this day.

If I grab a knife that I know I can sharpen and that I think doesn't need much and I put it on say my SG2k and after a couple minutes I'm not raising a burr or am not happy with the progress, I drop down. Even though I know I shouldn't need to and I've used that 2k on that same knife at that same level of sharpness many times, for whatever cosmic reason, at that particular moment, it isn't happening so I just drop to my SG500. But the same could be said for that stone. Did some soft/er stainless for a friend a few days back. One of the Wusthof's wasn't too bad (I sharpened it last) and I took it to my SG500. I would normally not have an issue but for whatever reason, at that particular time, I just wasn't feeling it and wasn't apexing the belly. I made some adjustments but still wasn't happy so I didn't fight it. I set the 500 aside and grabbed a 300 grit diamond. A few strokes and I had it. Then back to the 500 for finishing and then done.

I like being able to drop down and get results quickly. But, you do need to mind what you're doing. A Sharpie is key here. Let the knife and the stone tell you their story. Mark the bevel, make a couple passes, study the removal pattern, understand what you need to adjust, re-mark, do it again. You can use lighter pressure at first to get a feel for things. But you'll also raise the burr faster, get quicker feedback, and get off the stone sooner.

I honestly, personally, consider the SG500 a "must have." It is an awesome stone with a great reputation for a reason.

We can't grit our way into sharpness. Higher grits just refine what we've already established.

Focus on your angle and consistency in raising a burr. Then focus on de-burring.

It sounds like you have a bit of a mystery 1k. If so, then it only strengthens my resolve about adding the SG500 before any higher grits.

You can strop on cardboard, denim, newspaper, paint sticks, etc. You can use a little wheel polish or some inexpensive rouge form the hardware store to get started. Hell, you can use your stone slurry on the medium if you want. I like a designated strop, but surely not necessary, especially if money is a factor.

I like a universal stone holder like this:
https://www.bestsharpeningstones.co...name=Diamond Sharpening Stones&product_id=151

Nothing fancy but works well. But, as @Vertigo rightfully said, you don't need one. But they do make things easier.

If money is tight and needs careful allocation I personally would prioritize like this:

1. Sharpie (I like red)
2. Diamond flattening stone
3. SG500
4. All the other stuff, including higher grit stones, as you see fit.
 
That is part of my hesitancy with this 1k stone. I am assuming the stone is the same as the one listed on their website, but I’m not sure. That said I imagine Kama Asa wouldn’t be selling completely junk stones. Honestly not even sure that my knife is truly Shirogami #2 other than it looks like the listing on the website heh

For me I have pretty limited time so I don’t mind paying more for efficiency and ease of use. I’ll see what results I am able to muster out of this stone with my knives, but I foresee myself getting a SG500 soon! Appreciate everyone’s insight.
 
Tools Don’t Make The Carpenter

I'm really into having multiple knives and stones.
They have different weaknesses and strengths.
At the end of the day, I know it's the user, not the tool, that really makes the difference.

I'll repeat what @Vertigo and @HumbleHomeCook have said, practice, practice, practice.

That said, Shapton Glass/Glass double thick/Rockstar 500 is a great stone! It's coarse enough for minor repairs and first stone for dull knives, consistent in cutting and finish, slow to slurry but not so slow it glazes. It's close enough to a 1k to pretty much replace one, while being coarse enough to speed the process up over a 1k.
 
Tools Don’t Make The Carpenter

I'm really into having multiple knives and stones.
They have different weaknesses and strengths.
At the end of the day, I know it's the user, not the tool, that really makes the difference.

I'll repeat what @Vertigo and @HumbleHomeCook have said, practice, practice, practice.

That said, Shapton Glass/Glass double thick/Rockstar 500 is a great stone! It's coarse enough for minor repairs and first stone for dull knives, consistent in cutting and finish, slow to slurry but not so slow it glazes. It's close enough to a 1k to pretty much replace one, while being coarse enough to speed the process up over a 1k.
The videos showing experienced sharpeners get a good edge on every stone from a 220grit to a 3000grit with just the most basic techniques perfectly executed are humbling.
 
New stones let you do new things a bit better. Some soft stones are faster. Flatteners let you keep stones flat for good consistent reprofiling and geometry work, especially tool or razor sharpening. A coarse stone like 500 grit lets you thin and repair thick or chipped knives. A finer stone lets you make things shinier if you wanted such a finish. It also cuts slower and makes a different edge feel if you'd want, I find harder finer stones can be easier to deburr or rather, don't form a burr as fast or clingy as a coarse stone. But deburr at every grit. Soakers usually cut needing less pressure applied to them, and are porous. Splash and go stones are usually harder and stay flatter. Those are general stone tendencies. Have something in mind you want to do, and find a stone that people say that matches it.
 
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