Kiritsuke or Kiritsuke Yanagiba? Which is it?

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Oh man, my pet peeve! I use yanagiba, usuba, and very occasionally the real kiritsuke in my job.

People think a real kiritsuke is multi-purpose, but in reality it's even more specialized than a yanagiba or usuba imo. As others have said, it was designed to be both a cross between an usuba and yanagiba - the caveat being that it does each job less well than their counterparts. The person who uses this knife is usually at the top of the kitchen hierarchy and not busting out a thousand plates of sashimi in a night. Think of this person as overseeing the kitchen, making adjustment to plates, and in a pinch pushing something out themselves. In this scenario, a real kiritsuke makes sense because this person can use one knife to do most things he need and can overcome the innate deficiencies of the knife with technique and experience.

For somebody without the technique and experience, a kiritsuke is a knife that does the job of two incredibly specialized knives, just less well. It is NOT a multi-purpose knife in the sense that it is usually described as by most people.

The kiritsuke yanagiba is just a fun variation on the yanagiba (though in my experience is somewhat less practical than a standard yanagiba). Yanagiba have a natural curve to them that works very well for pull cuts for slicing sashimi in one go. By adding the k-tip, you by nature reduce the amount of curvature you get. For the hobbyist or itamae doing a small amount of covers in a night, it's not a big deal. For somebody in an izakaya pumping out literally hundred of plates of sashimi, a yanagiba is going to feel a lot better.

Someone else said it earlier, but a real kiritsuke is going to have a higher height and usually wider shinogi. It's also going to have a flatter profile. A kiritsuke yanagiba is should still have some of the signature curvature of a yanagiba.

The counterpoint to all of this, as @bsfsu mentioned is that a lot of people make whatever they think will sell and call it whatever sounds cool. I saw a "kiritsuke deba" the other day. I can't think of any good reason for it. Purely just making crap to sell regardless of it's useability.
 
Just see the knife profile, shape, height, thickness and length that suits for your need and buy that one.
 
My follow-up to this is that if you're going to go after a single bevel that you'll actually want to use, a kiritsuke is going to be one of the least good choices you can make.

If you butcher fish, buy a deba. If you eat sashimi or sushi, buy a yanagiba. Just don't buy an usuba unless you have a desire to learn kaiseki (because if you try to use it for western cooking, you'll regret it).

If you *really* want to have a single bevel Japanese knife, my recommendation is the funayuki. You can butcher fish with it, you can slice sashimi in a pinch with it - it's much more all-purpose than the kiritsuke.

But this is all advice for if you actually eat fish and cook with your knife. Cuz nobody's going to look at your funayuki and think, "dang that's sexy."
 
Really comes down to how makers choose to name their knife, look at Takeda's Mioroshi Deba and Carter's Funayuki. That being said K-Yanagi is just a Yanagi with K-tip, same curvature, thickness and length options.
 
I don't know why Tosho write Yanagiba on Takeda NAS 270mm, but that knife profile and grind looks like a Sujihiki with Asymmetrical double bevel.

Add: I often come across knife ads with incorrect descriptions. Maybe because they made the description in a hurry? For example: Yu Kurosaki A2 Yanagiba at some store in Canada (I don't have to say which one), on the description it says blade material: Aogami 2 with stainless cladding. When I saw that it was impossible or rare to see a high carbon steel Yanagiba with stainless clad, and finally I asked the store if it was true that the knife had stainless clad? They reply with answer: NO.
They said they would change it, but until now I see that the description has not been changed.
 
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I don't know why Tosho write Yanagiba on Takeda NAS 270mm, but that knife profile and grind looks like a Sujihiki with Asymmetrical double bevel
Not just Tosho tho, Takeda names bunch of his double beveled knife "deba" "yanagi", he just choose to do so for some reason.
 
Isn't the Kiritsuke the Japanaese version of a western gyuto only be used by the kitchen chef himself? As far as I know it's used to cut gelatine kind of stuff and not being used for sashimi/sushi as the yanagiba. Therefore it has a shorter and wider blade and is heavier than a yanagiba, but I might be wrong :cool:
 
Isn't the Kiritsuke the Japanaese version of a western gyuto only be used by the kitchen chef himself? As far as I know it's used to cut gelatine kind of stuff and not being used for sashimi/sushi as the yanagiba. Therefore it has a shorter and wider blade and is heavier than a yanagiba, but I might be wrong :cool:
No, it's more a combination of Usuba and Yanagi, so the chef could drop in different stations with one knife.
 
Ochazuke sums it up pretty well.
What used to be a kiritsuke is a very specialized knife. I’ve only used one but it mostly felt like an usuba mukimono and was great for peeling.

An old chef i knew used it to do that and also modified it to do “Baran-Kiri”

A kiritsuke Yanagiba is taking one size up and chopping it’s head off.

300mm Yanagiba to a 270mm K-tip Yanagiba. Hence why they are usually priced the same.

If looking at double bevel that’s all foreigners popularizing it. For example Sakai craftsman have been calling a santoku a Bunka for many many years. It was only hijacked recently to refer to a ktip santoku or short gyuto by western retailers.

The main point is there are no set standard names for some things and will change depending on the maker.

Ko-Deba = aji kiri = ai Deba = Deba
Depending on who made it.
 
If you *really* want to have a single bevel Japanese knife, my recommendation is the funayuki. You can butcher fish with it, you can slice sashimi in a pinch with it - it's much more all-purpose than the kiritsuke.
Uh oh.

Ok, so maybe I need to be starting with a different question.

I do not prepare Japanese food in my kitchen. (I may cut some occasional sashimi when my law partner brings me a bonito from his fishing boat, but mostly not.)

I essentially cook only western food and Chinese food. My western and Chinese knives are my workhorses, and I enjoy them very much.

So, I guess here’s the new question — which traditional Japanese single bevel knife would be most compatible with what I do in my kitchen? Which single bevel knife would offer the most opportunity to do fun and interesting things (or even the things I already do but better or in a different way) as I prepare my western and Chinese meals? And what are those things?

Dan
 
Uh oh.

Ok, so maybe I need to be starting with a different question.

I do not prepare Japanese food in my kitchen. (I may cut some occasional sashimi when my law partner brings me a bonito from his fishing boat, but mostly not.)

I essentially cook only western food and Chinese food. My western and Chinese knives are my workhorses, and I enjoy them very much.

So, I guess here’s the new question — which traditional Japanese single bevel knife would be most compatible with what I do in my kitchen? Which single bevel knife would offer the most opportunity to do fun and interesting things (or even the things I already do but better or in a different way) as I prepare my western and Chinese meals? And what are those things?

Dan

Out of curiosity, why does it have to be single bevel? Double bevels are just as "traditional" and far more versatile. In my estimation, there's really not a good fit for a single bevel of any flavor in a western, fish-lite, kitchen. Is it just because you find them alluring? That's perfectly fine, just wondering.

Maybe a nice nakiri or honesuki would scratch the itch?
 
Uh oh.

Ok, so maybe I need to be starting with a different question.

I do not prepare Japanese food in my kitchen. (I may cut some occasional sashimi when my law partner brings me a bonito from his fishing boat, but mostly not.)

I essentially cook only western food and Chinese food. My western and Chinese knives are my workhorses, and I enjoy them very much.

So, I guess here’s the new question — which traditional Japanese single bevel knife would be most compatible with what I do in my kitchen? Which single bevel knife would offer the most opportunity to do fun and interesting things (or even the things I already do but better or in a different way) as I prepare my western and Chinese meals? And what are those things?

Dan
So here's the thing: Japanese single bevels evolved for highly specialized uses in professional kitchens mostly involving cuisine that revolves around seafood. Buying one is kind of like buying a commercial stand mixer if you don't bake bread.

My point is just that if you expect them to function as well or better than your current kitchen knives (given your cooking preferences), be prepared to be disappointed. If you slice a lot of sashimi - your world would get rocked. Otherwise, not so much.

That being said, I get it. I have knives I don't really need but own just cuz I like them and it's cool to bust it out every once in a while (looking at you katsuo bocho).

Go ahead, buy the Kitaoka. YOLO.
 
Out of curiosity, why does it have to be single bevel? Double bevels are just as "traditional" and far more versatile. In my estimation, there's really not a good fit for a single bevel of any flavor in a western, fish-lite, kitchen. Is it just because you find them alluring? That's perfectly fine, just wondering.

Maybe a nice nakiri or honesuki would scratch the itch?
+1 to double bevels being traditional. My grandma (bless her soul) and all her hunched over sassy friends could cook circles around me using the double bevel "supermarket special" knife they bought in 1957 for probably like 1000 yen or something. 🤣
 
Out of curiosity, why does it have to be single bevel?

Perfectly sensible question.

I have lots of double bevel knives that I enjoy. Single bevel knives are simultaneously cool, beautiful, different and interesting.

My imagination (which might be totally wrong) tells me that there surely must be things I could do with a single bevel knife, even with my usual cuisine, that would be fun and different than what I usually do in the kitchen. I could be entirely wrong, but I have an optimistic imagination, and I’m always interested to try new things.
 
My point is just that if you expect them to function as well or better than your current kitchen knives (given your cooking preferences), be prepared to be disappointed.

See my more detailed comment above, but essentially, I’m looking for something different, interesting, cool, and fun.
 
Perfectly sensible question.

I have lots of double bevel knives that I enjoy. Single bevel knives are simultaneously cool, beautiful, different and interesting.

My imagination (which might be totally wrong) tells me that there surely must be things I could do with a single bevel knife, even with my usual cuisine, that would be fun and different than what I usually do in the kitchen. I could be entirely wrong, but I have an optimistic imagination, and I’m always interested to try new things.

Give honesukis a good look as you ponder your options. To me, they are quintessential Japanese knives. In true Japanese fashion, they are specialized for taking chickens down into like a dozen or more cuts (I don't do near that many), look awesome and many are very asymmetric and very close to single bevels.
 
Dan I checked out your post showing Yoshihiro the heel shot is telling. The single bevel is not as defined as a true yanagiba. Also the hollow grind backside hardly evident. It's kind of a hybrid blade.

For cutting sashimi, sushi topping a true yanagiba is best. The geometry is custom made as a fish slicer.

Your not cutting platters of sashimi. If you really like that knife it's not going to make much difference.

That said if you really like sharpening I encourage people to get a 270 yanagiba like
the white steel Gesshin uraku around 200.00. The edge you can get on that blade where the single bevel edge meets the hollow grind backside is like nothing else. I love sharpening true single bevel blades like yanagiba & deba.
 
Just see the knife profile, shape, height, thickness and length that suits for your need and buy that one.
+1

You won't really know what you're getting into until you just buy one.

My only other piece of advice is to buy a cheap single bevel for your first one. Most people make mistakes when learning to sharpen single bevels and those mistakes are usually fixable, but they usually regret learning them on their expensive knife.
 
Uh oh.

Ok, so maybe I need to be starting with a different question.

I do not prepare Japanese food in my kitchen. (I may cut some occasional sashimi when my law partner brings me a bonito from his fishing boat, but mostly not.)

I essentially cook only western food and Chinese food. My western and Chinese knives are my workhorses, and I enjoy them very much.

So, I guess here’s the new question — which traditional Japanese single bevel knife would be most compatible with what I do in my kitchen? Which single bevel knife would offer the most opportunity to do fun and interesting things (or even the things I already do but better or in a different way) as I prepare my western and Chinese meals? And what are those things?

Dan
Double bevel sujihiki
 
Honestly, there's a lot of sushi chefs who use a yanagiba as their "everything knife."

It's not a bad choice, even with the k-tip option. Honesuki is honestly also a good rec.

Just follow your heart my dude. We'll be here supporting you no matter what you pick and ready to give more advice if it's wanted or needed.
 
Not just Tosho tho, Takeda names bunch of his double beveled knife "deba" "yanagi", he just choose to do so for some reason.
Ooo....That's why I'm confused why Tosho wrote Yanagi on a double bevel knife that looks like a sujihiki, even though Tosho is a high reputable seller with a lot of knowledge on knives and stones.

So the name comes from the maker and Tosho just followed Takeda's description.
 
Ooo....That's why I'm confused why Tosho wrote Yanagi on a double bevel knife that looks like a sujihiki, even though Tosho is a high reputable seller with a lot of knowledge on knives and stones.

So the name comes from the maker and Tosho just followed Takeda's description.
Some makers aren't that stringent on definitions, when I was buying from Tadokoro Hamono, they actually have double beveled Usuba, even double beveled Kamagata Usuba.
https://www.tadokorohamono-marushin888.com/product-makoto
 
See my more detailed comment above, but essentially, I’m looking for something different, interesting, cool, and fun.
From what you're saying, I'd probably recommend a yanagi. IMO it's the least bad of the single bevels mentioned above when put into it's not intended use, and it'll likely force you into a different cutting motion than the one you've established with your western and chinese knives. You can admire the beauty of them and then jump into the madness of polishing if you so choose. I don't know that I'd buy "only one" if you want to pursue this route, I'd probably get one that's in the 210mm-225mm range and see how it suits you for both slicing boneless protein and in use as an all around petty. You can get that size for relatively little, you'll get a good feel for how to maintain that particular geometry and what you care to achieve wrt it's looks and that will go a long way to informing what shape/maker you would want as the "only one" you're going after.
 
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