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nwshull

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Speaking of the prolific Y. Tanaka, did anyone see the price these badass gyutos were going for? I thought vintage Swedish steel was kinda rare. I assume its not the same 100 year old Swedish (from UK steel maker) steel Konosuke was using for their Togo Reigo line...... or is it......

http://instagr.am/p/CFlHCThsfLk/
Disagree, I'd assume it is. There was quite a bit of stuff at the time.

There's a high degree of incestuousness inside the Sakai knife making... cartel? I get the strong impression that there is significant overlap with the craftsmen with Konosuke and Hitohira in particular.
 

Chicagohawkie

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Hitohira has always been knocking off konosuke, no surprise they’re trying to capitalize off the Kono Togo masterpiece. Coke vs. RC
 

nwshull

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If its the same craftsman, or same lineage, not sure that's a fair analogy. Konosuke didn't exactly invent the steel, or own exclusive rights to the Smith or sharpener on the line. The original Fujiyama sharpener has worked on other lines with Tanaka too, with designs very damn similar to the old Fujiyamas. I'm not sure to what extent they have claim to any sort of idea exclusively, versus the craftsman they contract with which are essentially independent contractors in many ways. I also don't think there's the same cultural negative connotation to replicating success as there is within the West.
 

zizirex

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the OG Fujiyama is the original Wide-Bevel knife that's is followed by Kagekiyo, Sakai Kikumori Choyo, Hitohira Kambei/Kyuzo/Etc, OUL. Some of them are made by the same Blacksmith & same sharpener. Different wholesaler means different specs and fits n finish. Also, who knows maybe Hokuto and Kosuke are buddies, they share the same resource for making a similar product.
 

josemartinlopez

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At what point can you get a knife which is substantially similar, without the branding? You know, like getting a Watanabe gyuto without Toyama kanji?
 

ModRQC

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At what point would you define one to be essentially different?

At what point can you get a knife which is substantially similar, without the branding? You know, like getting a Watanabe gyuto without Toyama kanji?
 

nwshull

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the OG Fujiyama is the original Wide-Bevel knife that's is followed by Kagekiyo, Sakai Kikumori Choyo, Hitohira Kambei/Kyuzo/Etc, OUL. Some of them are made by the same Blacksmith & same sharpener. Different wholesaler means different specs and fits n finish. Also, who knows maybe Hokuto and Kosuke are buddies, they share the same resource for making a similar product.
Agreed with that. I'm just saying to call it a knock off is unfair.

If it is the same level of workmanship, by the same people, which they all in my opinion more or less are, at least the ones which share the same sharpener and smith. The apprenticing system teaches you, to in many ways copy your master and Sakai's not THAT big, and when you talk to Japanese sellers not many people are looking to get into the trade. So you're really dealing with a common lineage, which by design copies itself a lot. On top of that there is variation, even within the old Fujiyama lines. I get the spine and choil polish is a particular part of the knife, that may be somewhat more unique, though I'm not sure its defining good vs better. For example, if I had a choice between the same knife profile, sharpener, smith, and I had a 500 dollar budget, one had a trademark spine polish or a mirror finish, and one though had more the handle and was in a steel I slightly preferred but didn't have those, personally I think I might gravitate to the latter.

Besides at some point, there was a first yanagiba, usuba, deba, etc. Excuse the rant, I just find knock off talk a little bit off putting, especially because it doesn't seem to bother and in fact is in many cases seems encouraged by the Japanese apprenticeship systems, and the Sakai distribution system in particular. ...Granted that may be changing with the newer Western Market obsessing over labels and smith lineage a lot more.
 

DitmasPork

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At what point can you get a knife which is substantially similar, without the branding? You know, like getting a Watanabe gyuto without Toyama kanji?
I don’t quite understand the question, nor the importance of it? Toyama and Watanabe knives are different, albeit similar; Kochi and Wakui have many similar attributes, but aren’t the same; there’re typically huge differences between Heiji (direct) and Gesshin Heiji, with regards to f&f; a knife branded by a particular company might be forged/sharpened by any number of people, yielding different results; etc.
 

esoo

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With it stated they're only doing 240's this year, my buying urge was just too great and bought a 210 Kono MM instead.
 

Bear

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Speaking of the prolific Y. Tanaka, did anyone see the price these badass gyutos were going for? I thought vintage Swedish steel was kinda rare. I assume its not the same 100 year old Swedish (from UK steel maker) steel Konosuke was using for their Togo Reigo line...... or is it......

http://instagr.am/p/CFlHCThsfLk/
I've been eyeing those as well, the price is crazy but from what I can see there is no crappy bead blast, for that price there better not be.
 

Corradobrit1

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I've been eyeing those as well, the price is crazy but from what I can see there is no crappy bead blast, for that price there better not be.
What was the price? Crazy is relative and I amaze myself how widely I apply that term depending on the context.
 
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ModRQC

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What was the price? Crazy is relative and I amaze myself how widely I apply that term depending on the context.
Tosho have an out of stock listing for a FM swedish carbon that was 1050$ CAD. Pretty sure it’s a FM but could be wrong, still gives a ballpark.
 

Corradobrit1

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Tosho have an out of stock listing for a FM swedish carbon that was 1050$ CAD. Pretty sure it’s a FM but could be wrong, still gives a ballpark.
Different branded knives but the DNA is the same. Both forged by Tanaka with vintage Swedish core steel
 

inferno

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i'd rather have new swedish steel whatever the F that now might even be.
 

ModRQC

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Different branded knives but the DNA is the same. Both forged by Tanaka with vintage Swedish core steel
I thought it looked amazing, I really contemplated the idea of seeking one as I kind of have a fond place for swedish carbon in my heart - being my first Carbon and first knife thinned/sharpened with good results (misono obviously). Usually that kind of prices have me look the other way... 🤔😅
 

JDC

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Think I'm a sucker for the slick marketing and seductive photography done for Kono Kaiju. My better senses and logic says that I have more than enough workhorse type gyutos—still want a Kaiju though, maybe not the first offerings though.
You need this one, it's not a workhorse, it's a laser beam attached to a workhorse.
 
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