Learn to flatten bevels/polish

[CodyJ]

Hello everyone, I’d like to learn how to fully polish a knife. I’m experienced with synthetic stones and want to learn how to do the whole process from learning to identify low spots, coarse stone work, pre finishers, finishers, fingerstones etc. is there a cheap clad knife out there that would be good to learn on?

Thanks!

 

[ethompson]

The catch 22 of sharpening / polishing is that the cheaper the knife the more complicated your work becomes in terms of setting up the geometry. Cheaper knives typically are less straight and have less consistent bevels. You end up needing to learn 4-5 skills at once instead of being able to focus just on polishing technique. That said, no one wants to learn on their super expensive gyuto...

I'd suggest browsing the options at Knife Japan - they're good quality and value-priced. I think a santoku is a good shape to learn on. It has some upsweep towards the tip which is good to learn to deal with but it's normally not severe and the blades are of manageable size.

 

[user 16756]

Tosa region stuff is cheap and you will have to do a lot of work on the bevels. E.G. Murata. It's up to you if you want to spend that much of your life dealing with them.

As always I will point you to Milan Gravier's channel: https://www.youtube.com/@milangraviercoutelier6162

 

[CodyJ]

The catch 22 of sharpening / polishing is that the cheaper the knife the more complicated your work becomes in terms of setting up the geometry. Cheaper knives typically are less straight and have less consistent bevels. You end up needing to learn 4-5 skills at once instead of being able to focus just on polishing technique. That said, no one wants to learn on their super expensive gyuto...

I'd suggest browsing the options at Knife Japan - they're good quality and value-priced. I think a santoku is a good shape to learn on. It has some upsweep towards the tip which is good to learn to deal with but it's normally not severe and the blades are of manageable size.

Something like this would be decent to start?

https://knifejapan.com/okahide-hamono-kurouchi-santoku-160mm/

 

[CodyJ]

Tosa region stuff is cheap and you will have to do a lot of work on the bevels. E.G. Murata. It's up to you if you want to spend that much of your life dealing with them.

As always I will point you to Milan Gravier's channel: https://www.youtube.com/@milangraviercoutelier6162

Thank you! Murata looks great but all sold out right now. I’ll take a look at Milan’s channel for sure!

 

[ethompson]

Something like this would be decent to start?

https://knifejapan.com/okahide-hamono-kurouchi-santoku-160mm/

I think so! Haven't tried that maker before though. Maybe @refcast has

 

[KasumiJLA]

Hello everyone, I’d like to learn how to fully polish a knife. I’m experienced with synthetic stones and want to learn how to do the whole process from learning to identify low spots, coarse stone work, pre finishers, finishers, fingerstones etc. is there a cheap clad knife out there that would be good to learn on?

Thanks!

Sounds like a new hobby in front of you! At first it will be frustrating but you have to persevere and you will quickly get a taste for it

A cheap way would be to buy only the blade to keep the cost low. Shirogami or aogami san mai with soft iron clad will be perfect. There are several people on Instagram that you can find who only sell blades. It's often a bit wabi sabi, but the point is to have the right gear to learn and have fun with, without fear of damaging an expensive knife.

You can find some gems on eBay too if you know what you are searching for. Sometimes there are good knives in decent condition. Always been happy with those that I could find and with a little love to give.

I might even have a Santoku with a handle, kurouchi finish (Shirogami 2, soft iron clad, 165mm) that I have already polished that would be interesting for you. You can write me in private for more details

 

[enrico]

Me personally, I'll just grab some Hatsukokoro from Homebutcher with one of his discount codes.

​

 

[captaincaed]

I’ve worked on two Murata, and they take a bit of work. But I love the steel and think they’re worth it. I also worked on a Kochi which was much more straightforward. Unfortunately the entire line is sold out.

Maybe talk with Jon at JKI. He knows all about this stuff and will happily pick you out a good first knife to polish for not too expensive. Maybe mention the Zakuri line - plenty of cheap options in stock. Jon tends to be a bit choosy with what he buys, so you have decent odds of flatter bevels to start with.

Honestly if I were starting again I’d start with a petty. I did a 270 first. All the skills are exactly the same with a petty, but you can iterate with early polishing experiments so much quicker.

You could also start with kiridashi. They’re basically designed for stone testing, and a really nice pretest before you start long work on a knife. $40 after shipping at Bernal. They’re wonky enough you’ll still get a couple hours of entertainment the first time you flatten and polish it.

https://www.japaneseknifeimports.com/collections/zakuri

 

[CodyJ]

I’ve worked on two Murata, and they take a bit of work. But I love the steel and think they’re worth it. I also worked on a Kochi which was much more straightforward. Unfortunately the entire line is sold out.

Maybe talk with Jon at JKI. He knows all about this stuff and will happily pick you out a good first knife to polish for not too expensive. Maybe mention the Zakuri line - plenty of cheap options in stock. Jon tends to be a bit choosy with what he buys, so you have decent odds of flatter bevels to start with.

Honestly if I were starting again I’d start with a petty. I did a 270 first. All the skills are exactly the same with a petty, but you can iterate with early polishing experiments so much quicker.

You could also start with kiridashi. They’re basically designed for stone testing, and a really nice pretest before you start long work on a knife. $40 after shipping at Bernal. They’re wonky enough you’ll still get a couple hours of entertainment the first time you flatten and polish it.

https://www.japaneseknifeimports.com/collections/zakuri

Thanks that’s a great idea to talk to Jon. Dunno why I didn’t think of that. A kiri might be really nice for a first timer.

 

[enrico]

I'd suggest looking for something that certainly has low spots like I stated above. Like @captaincaed said, Jon's knives might be too good for this. I think learning to polish should come after you learn to set geometry. You can use the stones you have most likely without having to spend more. Then get into adding more stones when you realize there may be a hole in your progressions. You always hear how important it is on scratch removal early on in the progressions as well.

I did learn a lot from flattening a wide-bevel that was concave. After hitting it on the stones, the mental and physical image of its geometry helped understand what my end goal was.

 

[CodyJ]

I'd suggest looking for something that certainly has low spots like I stated above. Like @captaincaed said, Jon's knives might be too good for this. I think learning to polish should come after you learn to set geometry. You can use the stones you have most likely without having to spend more. Then get into adding more stones when you realize there may be a hole in your progressions. You always hear how important it is on scratch removal early on in the progressions as well.

I did learn a lot from flattening a wide-bevel that was concave. After hitting it on the stones, the mental and physical image of its geometry helped understand what my end goal was.

Yeah this is the type of learning I’m interested in. Like, at this point I know what convex bevels look like but not really concave and wouldn’t know the first thing about how to flatten them. Or to take a flat bevel and convex it.

 

[enrico]

Theres a lot of smart people here that can help. Personally I wouldn’t put too much effort in trying to convex a bevel. There’s a lot more that comes before that.

This was my wide bevel Uraku from JKI

Post in thread 'Daily Sharpening Pics'
Daily Sharpening Pics

 

[CodyJ]

Theres a lot of smart people here that can help. Personally I wouldn’t put too much effort in trying to convex a bevel. There’s a lot more that comes before that.

This was my wide bevel Uraku from JKI

Post in thread 'Daily Sharpening Pics'
Daily Sharpening Pics

Continuing through the photos is this you grinding out a hollow in the middle?

 

[enrico]

Continuing through the photos is this you grinding out a hollow in the middle?

Yes, flattening the top and bottom to meet the concave part (the dark portion that gets smaller and smaller). Then when its all flat and even we can move to progression for polishing.

I will need to bring up the edge a mm or so because the edge steel is not holding up for how thin it is.

I always slide in @ethompson’s DM’s with questions

 

[captaincaed]

Concave bevels suck. Both for polishing and cutting. Nice for chisel and plane blades though.

 

[Choppin]

I second the advice on KnifeJapan knives, particularly santoku. They are affordable yet usually free of serious issues like major bends, huge low spots, etc. Make sure you get something iron-clad (most knives there are) as it's easier to grind then stainless-clad.

The Okahide seems like a good option. Haven't tried this maker though. Just pic one you like! Can't really go wrong with the makers there (maybe stay clear of Takahashi Kajiya, wabi sabi is... intense).

I'm currently working on this one. The factory grind is convex. I'm now getting the bevels flat with a SG220. Takes some time but not a total nightmare.
https://knifejapan.com/unshu-chuzen-hamono-nakiri-senyo-160mm/

 

[ethompson]

A kiri might be really nice for a first timer.

A kiri is a great way to get pleasing results in a hurry or test a new stone, but they won't teach you the skillset needed to get those types of results on a knife

 

[CodyJ]

A kiri is a great way to get pleasing results in a hurry or test a new stone, but they won't teach you the skillset needed to get those types of results on a knife

Gotcha I think I’ll grab something from Knife Japan for around 100 and get grinding. Thank you!

 

[noj]

I have related questions, but wasn’t sure whether it’s proper etiquette to share a thread, or create another. The OP should feel free to let me know. Anyone else, please PM with any thoughts, as I do not want to populate the OP’s thread with a survey!

Here’s a bit about my interest. It isn’t formulated as questions, but should give you an idea of where I am coming from. Your title uses the word “flatten”, which I am guessing means (at a minimum) shaping in order to remove high (low) spots, not specifically a wide-bevel ground dead flat. A lot of my knives are not wide bevel. I have recently been learning about thinning and relief bevels*. However, I have not been able to remove high (low) spots. I have experimented on a few knives, and have some observations and ideas. My focus is more on knife performance in the kitchen. That said, I appreciate a better finish while working thinning and relief bevels, or a blade that is sitting unused for a while.

Thanks!


* thinning questions (yet another thread)

 

[KenjiF]

Something thicker, flat grind, soft cladding, flatter profile (Nakiri, santoku or a honesuki), symmetrical bevel and non wavy shinogi would be my first suggestions. Heavily textured hammered cladding can be a little hard at first as well because the low and high spots in cladding can be a little confusing when looking at shinogi. I learned on TF Mabs out of necessity (to get them performing well again) and that was prob a mistake.

First skill I’d focus on is assessing the knife. Learn to tell if something is straight, twisted or bent and how to fix that either with a straightening stick or hammer and stump. Not very glamorous but polishing a blade that is twisted or bent will cause more damage than you fix to geometry.

Learned this one the hard way but also when you’re starting dull your edge. It’s good to have a clear edge bevel to judge thickness but dull the apex. Lost my fingerprints for a while…

Milan is the best source I have found on learning bevel polishing. Chime in peeps on other good resources to learn! I’d love to see more.

 

[user 37848]

First skill I’d focus on is assessing the knife. Learn to tell if something is straight, twisted or bent and how to fix that either with a straightening stick or hammer and stump.

This part

 

[Choppin]

First skill I’d focus on is assessing the knife. Learn to tell if something is straight, twisted or bent and how to fix that either with a straightening stick or hammer and stump.

yep, this +1

 

[refcast]

Okahide is fine, steel is quite crispy and bitey for blue steel. Feels a lot like Sakai white but with a toughness and slight gumminess in a helpful way. Bevels we're fairly even