Looking specifically for a s30 and a vanax chef knife

[insidiousaudio]

I'm okay with what you would call I guess a mass produced or a custom blade don't want to spend $1,000 on the blade but for the s30 I would spend about 650 same for the vanax

 

[Barmoley]

They probably exist, but I haven’t seen any in these steels. Maybe one of the local knife makers can help you out with a custom in one of these. Vanax is a pretty expensive steel and even though steel price is minor compared to other costs in the case of vanax it might add to the price significantly. S35vn, magnacut, or cruwear are more common.

 

[HSC /// Knives]

a bar of Vanax is about $130,
if material cost is 10% of the knife, you are looking at a $1,300 minimum

 

[MSicardCutlery]

I could make the S30V, but Vanax is unavailable domestically.

 

[Matus]

I understand your motivation for Vanax (super rust resistant), but not su much for S30V. Is there something specific about that steel that interessts you?

 

[HumbleHomeCook]

If you're okay with S30V, I'd assume you're okay with S35VN and you'll find more options in that steel.

North Arm Knives comes to mind but I've seen multiple offerings in the past.

 

[Barmoley]

I understand your motivation for Vanax (super rust resistant), but not su much for S30V. Is there something specific about that steel that interessts you?

I don’t even understand vanax motivation now that MagnaCut exists. MC is not as corrosion resistant, but more than enough for a kitchen knife. MC is also close enough to s30v and vanax in wear resistance and is tougher than both other steels and gets harder than vanax. On the other hand if a person wants s30v and vanax then that’s what he wants.

 

[ptolemy]

a bar of Vanax is about $130,
if material cost is 10% of the knife, you are looking at a $1,300 minimum

This is very interesting. Is that the usual breakdown? that raw material cost is 10% of the finished knife cost?> I have no experience in this but based on the pricing of things like magnacut knives, which are about the same cost per bar, the 10% seems quite high, since then MC knives would be $1300+ vs $300-800 based on the maker, and other things...

 

[MSicardCutlery]

This is very interesting. Is that the usual breakdown? that raw material cost is 10% of the finished knife cost?> I have no experience in this but based on the pricing of things like magnacut knives, which are about the same cost per bar, the 10% seems quite high, since then MC knives would be $1300+ vs $300-800 based on the maker, and other things...

Personally I usually just quadruple my costs to set the price. This changes a bit for knives that require a lot of hand work, like yo handles or honyaki, or brass end caps, but it generally follows. In the EU the ratio is probably a lot different, where taxes are a lot higher and shop space is almost impossible to own. Xerxes made a post on here about his costs about 4 years back, it's very insightful.

 

[HSC /// Knives]

This is very interesting. Is that the usual breakdown? that raw material cost is 10% of the finished knife cost?> I have no experience in this but based on the pricing of things like magnacut knives, which are about the same cost per bar, the 10% seems quite high, since then MC knives would be $1300+ vs $300-800 based on the maker, and other things...

like most things, the details matter and there are simply too many variables to call it a usual method.
Murray Carter indicates steel should be 5% of the sales price of the knife.

for that steel, for me 10% is likely appropriate but as I said, it would be $1,300 minimum.

 

[M1k3]

This is very interesting. Is that the usual breakdown? that raw material cost is 10% of the finished knife cost?> I have no experience in this but based on the pricing of things like magnacut knives, which are about the same cost per bar, the 10% seems quite high, since then MC knives would be $1300+ vs $300-800 based on the maker, and other things...

Also tracks with higher wear resistant steels cost more to begin with. Which take more time/resources to grind, harden, etc.

 

[insidiousaudio]

a bar of Vanax is about $130,
if material cost is 10% of the knife, you are looking at a $1,300 minimum

Way to much. Thanks

 

[insidiousaudio]

I could make the S30V, but Vanax is unavailable domestically.

I'm basically start a knife steel collection. Just some of the steels I'm interested in.

 

[insidiousaudio]

I understand your motivation for Vanax (super rust resistant), but not su much for S30V. Is there something specific about that steel that interessts you?

Just want to try different steels honestly.

 

[insidiousaudio]

They probably exist, but I haven’t seen any in these steels. Maybe one of the local knife makers can help you out with a custom in one of these. Vanax is a pretty expensive steel and even though steel price is minor compared to other costs in the case of vanax it might add to the price significantly. S35vn, magnacut, or cruwear are more common.

Thanks. I got a magnacut supposed to come in tonight from gabe who won forged in fire. So next is maybe k390

 

[aporigine]

I'm basically start a knife steel collection. Just some of the steels I'm interested in.

The steel is not as important as the maker’s expression of it. Hard-won knowledge.

 

[jedy617]

My friend brian (transparent knives) on instagram used to make quite a bit of vanax chefs, I know a bunch of other makers too. It's great steel. Lots of american makers will do s30v as well

 

[Barmoley]

Thanks. I got a magnacut supposed to come in tonight from gabe who won forged in fire. So next is maybe k390

Collecting different steels is as good of a reason as any other. I suspected that was at least one of your goals when you mentioned these particular steels. Just a word of caution, since you will be getting knives in different steels from different makers and possibly in different knives, don’t attribute performance differences you will experience to the steels and not the knives. Unless your knives in different steels are exactly the same you won’t know if it is the steel itself that made the difference. This is why everyone is saying don’t concentrate on the steel, but rather on the maker. Also, many knife makers that don’t concentrate on kitchen knives don’t really understand what makes kitchen knives perform well, so just because a maker will make you a knife in the steel you want doesn’t mean you will get a good kitchen knife in the end. For any knife steel is not as important as other attributes of the knife, but for kitchen knives such as chef or gyuto this is even more true. For best experience and end result you want to go with the makers who understand kitchen knives and then ask them what steels they can work with.

 

[insidiousaudio]

Collecting different steels is as good of a reason as any other. I suspected that was at least one of your goals when you mentioned these particular steels. Just a word of caution, since you will be getting knives in different steels from different makers and possibly in different knives, don’t attribute performance differences you will experience to the steels and not the knives. Unless your knives in different steels are exactly the same you won’t know if it is the steel itself that made the difference. This is why everyone is saying don’t concentrate on the steel, but rather on the maker. Also, many knife makers that don’t concentrate on kitchen knives don’t really understand what makes kitchen knives perform well, so just because a maker will make you a knife in the steel you want doesn’t mean you will get a good kitchen knife in the end. For any knife steel is not as important as other attributes of the knife, but for kitchen knives such as chef or gyuto this is even more true. For best experience and end result you want to go with the makers who understand kitchen knives and then ask them what steels they can work with.

I got a magnacut in 63vtrom gave.

 

[Barmoley]

I got a magnacut in 63vtrom gave.

Let us know what you think of the knife and post some pictures. I don’t know Gabe so don’t know the quality of his kitchen knives.

 

[fortheloveofmoar]

Also don’t forget about heat treat. But as barmoley said, buy the maker not necessarily the steel. Barmoley has been around the block once or twice

 

[bradmacmt]

I've never seen an S30V kitchen knife, though they undoubtedly exist. I do have a custom S30V hunting knife. Nice steel.

 

[jedy617]

Yeah lots of small american makers can/will do it:

https://www.weigeknives.com/portfolio-items/1714/

https://www.epicedge.com/shopexd.asp?id=84935

 

[Barmoley]

Yeah lots of small american makers can/will do it:

https://www.weigeknives.com/portfolio-items/1714/

https://www.epicedge.com/shopexd.asp?id=84935

This is what I was alluding to. Just because someone made a knife in a form of a chef knife out of a specific steel, does it make it a good chef knife?

I have absolutely no experience with either of these or any knife from these makers. On the surface both bother me especially the second one. Even more so because epic edge should know better than the description of that knife, there are so many things wrong with the description that they should be ashamed of themselves for using a bad version of ChatGPT to write it. S30V is considered by many to be ideal because it is extremely hard….strong distal taper…..wtaf

Now, it was made by a pro chef, so I can’t deny that it could be an excellent knife even though it doesn’t look like it would be, but this goes back to the other discussion, just because it doesn’t look right doesn’t mean it is not good…..

 

[jedy617]

This is what I was alluding to. Just because someone made a knife in a form of a chef knife out of a specific steel, does it make it a good chef knife.

I have absolutely no experience with either of these or any knife from these makers. On the surface both bother me especially the second one. Even more so because epic edge should know better than the description of that knife, there are so many things wrong with the description that they should be ashamed of themselves for using a bad version of ChatGPT to write it. S30V is considered by many to be ideal because it is extremely hard….strong distal taper…..wtaf

Now, it was made by a pro chef, so I can’t deny that it could be an excellent knife even though it doesn’t look like it would be, but this goes back to the other discussion, just because it doesn’t look right doesn’t mean it is not good…..

Didn't really look at them, just googled s30v chef knife to show in fact they do exist, didn't intend em to be recommendations. I have seen a boat load just scrolling through social media over the years. Problem is again, there are tons of makers even members here aren't privy to...I know a few but they wouldn't be forum darlings. Just very small operations. Some probably junk, but there are good ones out there too. Most of these makers make all sorts of knives, not just chefs, and while will have their preferred steel for sure, will do anything they can get their hands on within reason

 

[Barmoley]

Didn't really look at them, just googled s30v chef knife to show in fact they do exist, didn't intend em to be recommendations. I have seen a boat load just scrolling through social media over the years. Problem is again, there are tons of makers even members here aren't privy to...I know a few but they wouldn't be forum darlings. Just very small operations. Some probably junk, but there are good ones out there too. Most of these makers make all sorts of knives, not just chefs, and while will have their preferred steel for sure, will do anything they can get their hands on within reason

Not a criticism to you at all. I also know of many that can make any shape knife out of many steels or maybe even any they can buy. Many of them just don’t understand chef knives they just make knives in the shape of chef knives basically. Undoubtedly, some of these are good, but most are junk.

 

[jedy617]

Also for what it's worth, been using vanax a lot in the kitchen (in the form of DC18N damacore). It's been stellar, no surprise there because I have had great EDC experience with it. But I do agree unless you need literally rustproof, it pretty much feels like magnacut to use, except it felt a little nicer to sharpen. For most people magnacut is just as good, or better in some aspects.

My personal reason for getting it was because I wanted a high alloy stainless damascus san mai, but magnacut is less available generally. Plus damasteel does the best stainless damascus imo in terms of composition and pattern consistency.

If it was more easily available, could also see it being more popular in chefs as well for western makers who want higher alloy stainless, just because magnacut is a huge headache to finish and I know vanax is easier. My friend gets it for his knives, but he has to order a sheet worth like $2000, so it is a lot of investment.

 

[Barmoley]

DC18N Is interesting material, a bit odd since the core is more corrosion resistant than the cladding, but pretty interesting and expensive. Vanax is good stuff, I prefer Magnacut because it gets harder and is tougher while being corrosion resistant enough. So better edge stability which is what I like since I like thin and acute edges.

 

[Taz575]

Some of my early kitchen knives that I made were in S30V when it first came out; ugly profiles and thick behind the edge back then! LOL. I saw some CATRA testing with S30V at higher hardness levels (65 hrc) and the edge retention was greatly increased by around 15%+ over it at 60 hrc, so I may play with that now that I have my own heat treat oven! Don't know how much of a PITA it will be to work and sharpen though!

Magnacut at 64 hrc does very nicely in the kitchen! I use ceramic Norax and Trizact belts after 220 ceramics and they work well on hardened Magnacut and give a nice belt finish. It can take a super thin edge and hold it well.

 

[insidiousaudio]

Some of my early kitchen knives that I made were in S30V when it first came out; ugly profiles and thick behind the edge back then! LOL. I saw some CATRA testing with S30V at higher hardness levels (65 hrc) and the edge retention was greatly increased by around 15%+ over it at 60 hrc, so I may play with that now that I have my own heat treat oven! Don't know how much of a PITA it will be to work and sharpen though!

Magnacut at 64 hrc does very nicely in the kitchen! I use ceramic Norax and Trizact belts after 220 ceramics and they work well on hardened Magnacut and give a nice belt finish. It can take a super thin edge and hold it well.

I have a magnacut of 61-62 from doberman.