Microscopic chips after sharpening? PLEASE Help

Miura knives
Advertise with us
Kitchen Knife Forums

Help Support Kitchen Knife Forums:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
Pete348

Pete348

Member
Joined
May 12, 2020
Messages
13
Reaction score
1
Location
Australia
Hey guys
Ok so I have had lessons in Japan, off a sushi master in LA on sharpening, have the stones and the knives but every time I sharpen I get little tiny chips in the blade so Its not smooth
I have asked and searched on this for ages , loose steam and come back to it...
I will attach some pics, I burr, no prob, on a 400 then come down 800.1200,6000 and 8000 then leather.
Paper push sharp alot of the time but the nics grab the paper if you cut across and you can feel the niks catching the paper.
Any help appreciated?
Thank you
Pete
 

Attachments

  • image0.jpeg
    image0.jpeg
    48.9 KB · Views: 117
  • image1.jpeg
    image1.jpeg
    54.3 KB · Views: 119
  • image2.jpeg
    image2.jpeg
    48.3 KB · Views: 112
  • image3.jpeg
    image3.jpeg
    50.6 KB · Views: 98
Just to be clear, you are getting the chips after use?
Or immediately after sharpening and which stone is causing the chips? If it is occurring during sharpening do you know which stone in the progression causes the chips.
 
Hi
Only after sharpening, Thats a good question, 1 would say it looked good after the 1200 and the 6000 put the chips in, that pic is under a microscope, but you can feel them with your nail.
 
Is this a recent thing? Or has it happened every time you’ve sharpened this knife? Does it happen when you sharpen other knives?
 
I can only hazard a guess as it's never happened to me - but perhaps reduce the pressure you're putting on the knife on the higher grit stones like the 6K.
Also try a different knife and check the edge and see if it is happening.
 
Wow, that’s annoying. I think other members have posed good questions above. I’m looking forward to seeing the answers. You’ll solve this!
 
I would definitely look at your pressure. On the larger chips, is it possible that its a huge burr with chips in it? Hard to tell from the pics.

maybe record a little of your sharpening technique
 
slickmamba said:
I would definitely look at your pressure. On the larger chips, is it possible that its a huge burr with chips in it? Hard to tell from the pics.

maybe record a little of your sharpening technique
Click to expand...
Ok, I go harder on the 400 and then ease off, I used what I was taught in Japan and have seen the bob kramer video. I just do the same as that, I have one of his knives too, same thing,
I will record a video tomorrow.

Is this normal? or am I just **** at sharpening?
 
ther
slickmamba said:
I would definitely look at your pressure. On the larger chips, is it possible that its a huge burr with chips in it? Hard to tell from the pics.

maybe record a little of your sharpening technique
Click to expand...
there is deff no burr on it now, I burr at the start, not too crazy, but just so I can feel it.
 
Pete348 said:
Ok, I go harder on the 400 and then ease off, I used what I was taught in Japan and have seen the bob kramer video. I just do the same as that, I have one of his knives too, same thing,
I will record a video tomorrow.

Is this normal? or am I just **** at sharpening?
Click to expand...
its definitely not normal. I would suggest watching the japaneseknifeimport videos on youtube, or the knifeplanet ones. Both have great videos and the knifeplanet one focuses on pressure management. I would take a look at your edge after each stone and deburring to see whats going on. You should be using lighter pressure as you go up the stones.
 
VG-10 steel?

I would definitely try not going so high in your progression. Maybe try stopping at 1200. The. Light pressure stopping motion on your 4000 finished with leather strip. Also, I think a less aggressive angle would help. But I agree with slick, watch the vids, take your time.
 
Pete348 said:
stones 400 800 1200 6000 8000
Click to expand...
I think they're asking for brand and such. A King stone will behave quite differently from a Naniwa for example.

Also, when in your sharpening progression do these chips show up? Only on the last stone used, or before that? Only after stropping on leather?

Have you tried only sharpening on the 1200 grit stone, getting it as sharp as you can on that and then finishing on the leather strop? Do the chips still show up if you use only those two steps? Or sharpen on just the 1200, no leather strop. This way you can try to remove as many variables as you can and see where the problem stems from.
 
Helmore said:
I think they're asking for brand and such. A King stone will behave quite differently from a Naniwa for example.

Also, when in your sharpening progression do these chips show up? Only on the last stone used, or before that? Only after stropping on leather?

Have you tried only sharpening on the 1200 grit stone, getting it as sharp as you can on that and then finishing on the leather strop? Do the chips still show up if you use only those two steps? Or sharpen on just the 1200, no leather strop. This way you can try to remove as many variables as you can and see where the problem stems from.
Click to expand...
Ah I see, so sorry! They are king de lux stones (although the 400 is not labled,
I have never thought to look at the progression to be honest, I just worked thru them, I will do upto a 1200 tomorrow and check to see, Its a good point and see your logic.

Thank you so much for your replys.
 
Also, have you used it for food prep with the chips, and if so, did you quickly form more chips in the blade during use? If so, maybe the sharpening angle is too acute for the brittleness of the blade and you end up chipping the blade at the slightest pressure.

Anyway, try to isolate as many variables in the sharpening equation as you can. First, minimize the amount of stones used during sharpening, preferably to only a single stone, and try to get it screaming sharp on just that. If it's still chipping then, now use that minimized setup, but try sharpening at a less acute angle. And so on. Experiment I'd say.

Also, have you watched the videos slickmanba suggested? Seeing how they do it may help you find a solution.
 
Looks like a Zkramer Vg-10 by the damascus. -- plz correct if im wrong.

The breaks all look "Different"
Some look like they impacted the corner of the stone.
Are your stones flat? - Give a good lapping using the pen technique and cut down those corners.

Image 2 (3rd Picture)
has one of those "Carter" lateral pressure (lighter) breaks. - See video
so if it only happens when sharpening, Are you leaving your hand on one spot of the blade while doing stropping motions "under pressure" this might cause you to accidentally be using the corner of the stone to "pop" the edge causing microchips?




When sharpening on your fine stone ... are you accidentally cutting into the stone ever?

your doing something right off your 1200. what is different to your 6k?
 
Make sure the factory edge is really gone. Verify with marker and loupe you've got clean bevels with your coarsest stone and are not only accumulating debris on top of the old edge.
Factory edges tend to be both weak and unpredictable. Often they're only a service to the end user who will anyway put his own edge on in. In that case the used angles are extremely low, far lower than can be used as a general purpose knife with board contact. So, the factory edge isn't always to be actually used.
Weak they often are due to poor buffering for deburring. Best get completely rid of it and put a reasonable edge on it, 25-35° inclusive.
Please don't follow Mr Kramer's example where pressure is concerned. I'm quite sure he knows what he is doing, but that doesn't mean sharing that technique with relative novices is such a great idea. Big pressure may help with thinning far behind the very edge. Otherwise, some risks are involved. For the time being, please apply a light touch when you're approaching the very edge. Use a marker and a loupe to see where you are. Better take your time, or have a coarser stone.
 
Last edited:
M1k3 said:
You could be "bending" the knife over the edges of your stone.
Click to expand...
Wouldn't rounding off the edges of your stone during flattening help to mitigate this a little? Of course, not actually "bending" the knife on the edge or your stone at all will be the better solution, but just wondering if it will help at all or if you'd just move the pressure point that way.
 
Three things can be happening, based on what I've experienced:

(1) Grit contamination on any of the stones. Which is larger or loose particles on the stone from previous stones or from sand, dirt, etc. The leather especially . . .if the knife edge is thin and if you're stropping hard or fast.

(2) Previous chips are not sharpened out

(3) The stones you are using are really hard, which makes chips during sharpening more likely from grit contamination.
 
refcast said:
(1) Grit contamination on any of the stones. Which is larger or loose particles on the stone from previous stones or from sand, dirt, etc. The leather especially . . .if the knife edge is thin and if you're stropping hard or fast.
Click to expand...

Yea, gotta be careful here. I've definitely learned this from experience. A stone flattened with an newish Atoma 140, for instance, can sometimes have a stray diamond on it, which can scratch up your blade, or I guess potentially microchip your edge.

Not really convinced this is what's happening to you, though...
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Latest posts

Back
Top