New 240 Gyuto: Wat, Yoshikane or TF

[Hz_zzzzzz]

Good to know, I haven't tried since switching from end grain maple to hinoki and brown hasegawa. I am sure I would have a better experience on these softer boards, I just don't want to be that careful with my knives. It is enough that I am already very careful with them by using appropriate boards, washing right away, using good stones and cutting appropriate stuff in appropriate ways. I don't need to be even more careful for dubious cutting improvement At some point these tools become unusable to me if babying them interferes with my use. No zero edges for me, no need the knives cut great in my use without

I like zero edge because not only it cuts better but it's also easier to maintain. The edge could be refreshed in seconds. Even if not <0.05 mm thick right above the edge, at least 0.1 mm or even 0.15 mm. Some TFs (my denka for example) were 0.25mm or even 0.4 mm right above the edge which is too thick to cut really well. Some factory made knives are better than that.

 

[Carl Kotte]

I also recommend the Denka, because it is the thinnest behind the edge after you make it the thinnest behind the edge.

Anyway, not much to add at this point. Think the OP has all the relevant info.

My reason for recommending the denka is the price. It’s very expensive!

 

[Corradobrit1]

My reason for recommending the denka is the price. It’s very expensive!

Ahh, as taught at the Mazaki school of marketing.

 

[FishmanDE]

Actually they've been OOS for a bit online.

Touché

 

[superworrier]

Touché

I guess for anyone curious as well, the stainless clad ones will never be restocked at MTC again, according to someone who asked.

 

[lemeneid]

I think I’ve perfectly documented my TFs from day one. Here’s a Morihei Fine Finish and a Denka when they were BNIB. Super thin zero edged. One great thing IMO with TF western handles is they all come with the grind of a laser, but with the weight and feel of a workhorse, something you don’t get with the Wat or Yoshi.

And in my opinion, even a stock Denka wins a tuned up Maboroshi any day. More authoritative feel, sharpness and a real joy to sharpen, not that the Maboroshi is bad though, but if budget permits, get a Denka.

I’ve also got a Denka petty as a fatty, but I’m not going to shame it here, but it’s pretty much my favorite knife to use now.

 

[FishmanDE]

I guess for anyone curious as well, the stainless clad ones will never be restocked at MTC again, according to someone who asked.

Hey man, that’s what they told me in store. Now the website is saying “temporarily oos” so I clearly have no idea what’s going on

 

[Hz_zzzzzz]

I think I’ve perfectly documented my TFs from day one. Here’s a Morihei Fine Finish and a Denka when they were BNIB. Super thin zero edged. One great thing IMO with TF western handles is they all come with the grind of a laser, but with the weight and feel of a workhorse, something you don’t get with the Wat or Yoshi.

And in my opinion, even a stock Denka wins a tuned up Maboroshi any day. More authoritative feel, sharpness and a real joy to sharpen, not that the Maboroshi is bad though, but if budget permits, get a Denka.

I’ve also got a Denka petty as a fatty, but I’m not going to shame it here, but it’s pretty much my favorite knife to use now.

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The morihei looks closer to zero edge but it's not finished by TF. Somehow the denka edge looks folded toward right side so I don't know. If the folded part is edge then it's too much edge to be claimed zero edge IMO. Do you happen to have the photo of that denka's edge road OOTB?

 

[lemeneid]

The morihei looks closer to zero edge but it's not finished by TF. Somehow the denka edge looks folded toward right side so I don't know. If the folded part is edge then it's too much edge to be claimed zero edge IMO. Do you happen to have the photo of that denka's edge road OOTB?

You got it the opposite, the Denka is the red handle one and the Morihei is the black handle. Both are slight lefty biased too that’s why.

This is my Denka’s blade road OOTB

 

[Hz_zzzzzz]

You got it the opposite, the Denka is the red handle one and the Morihei is the black handle. Both are slight lefty biased too that’s why.

This is my Denka’s blade road OOTB
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I did mean the black handle one by morihei. For the red handle one, this shows what I meant, but after seeing your new picture I think yours is indeed very good. Very even and thin edge. No wonder you like it that much...

 

[user 16756]

I did mean the black handle one by morihei. For the red handle one, this shows what I meant, but after seeing this picture I think yours indeed very good. Very even and thin edge. No wonder you like it that much...

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really thin grinds, camera lenses that cant do super flat fields at close range (which is vastly most of them) and right hand bias often make choil shots appear to curve a bit.

oh and also some of them have low spots near the edge

 

[Hz_zzzzzz]

Here's choil of my denka which also looks good but if you look at the blade road, my edge was quite thick in the front part and at 1 inch from the heel. And it was very thick the whole area behind the edge (thickness at 1 cm above the edge around 1.5 mm which is thicker than even my Heiji).



I think many of you have saw this video of it cutting compared to Kono FM,

 

[FishmanDE]

Here's choil of my denka which also looks good but if you look at the blade road, my edge was quite thick in the front part and at 1 inch from the heel. And it was very thick the whole area behind the edge (thickness at 1 cm above the edge around 1.5 mm which is thicker than even my Heiji).

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I think many of you have saw this video of it cutting compared to Kono FM,

The video only shows 2 slices with the TF?

 

[Hz_zzzzzz]

The video only shows 2 slices with the TF?

I made that video for the Kono. Only included the denka to show it's a difficult carrot to cut. I didn't make a longer video for OOTB denka because I lost interests after a few cuts in a carrot.

 

[Hz_zzzzzz]

Just to be clearer I'm not saying people shouldn't buy TF. If you know exactly what it is or what to expect, who am I to say NO about it? I myself want a 240 denka as I really love the steel. But for a new comer this is not the best knife to start with IMO given the variance and uncertainty, unless you get it second hand from someone like lemeneid. And even lemeneid spent quite some time on his denka with sandpapers and stones IIRC. How many people thin their Toyama or Yoshi within the first month?

 

[lemeneid]

This is my comparison between stock Denka vs a tuned Toyama/Watanabe honyaki by a professional sharpener.

As far as I know, the honyakis are closer to the current stainless clad in weight and grind but still thicker and heavier, but you can see, thinness behind the edge helps a lot in the cut.

Here's choil of my denka which also looks good but if you look at the blade road, my edge was quite thick in the front part and at 1 inch from the heel. And it was very thick the whole area behind the edge (thickness at 1 cm above the edge around 1.5 mm which is thicker than even my Heiji).

View attachment 135774View attachment 135773View attachment 135775

I think many of you have saw this video of it cutting compared to Kono FM,

Your Denka is indeed a little fatter, sorta like my Denka petty, and I do have a little wedging on it, but nothing like yours.

 

[Corradobrit1]

No complaints here. OOTB grind finessed by TF IV on my 210 Yo Denka

 

[Hz_zzzzzz]

This is my comparison between stock Denka vs a tuned Toyama/Watanabe honyaki by a professional sharpener.

As far as I know, the honyakis are closer to the current stainless clad in weight and grind but still thicker and heavier, but you can see, thinness behind the edge helps a lot in the cut.




Your Denka is indeed a little fatter, sorta like my Denka petty, and I do have a little wedging on it, but nothing like yours.

Yours indeed look very good. Mine works fine after 2 hours on stones. Still not cutting as effortlessly as Wat but was close enough.

 

[Hz_zzzzzz]

No complaints here. OOTB grind finessed by TF IV on my 210 Yo Denka

Great choil. Now we have 3 ways to get great TF for sure,
1. Have TF IV himself finish it for you (won't be easy but you can ask Corradobrit1 how)
2. Have Morihei finish it for you (not available for denka option)
3. Buy it second hand from whoever got a good one or made a good one after hours of work

 

[lemeneid]

Great choil. Now we have 3 ways to get great TF for sure,
1. Have TF IV himself finish it for you (won't be easy but you can ask Corradobrit1 how)
2. Have Morihei finish it for you (not available for denka option)
3. Buy it second hand from whoever got a good one or made a good one after hours of work

There isn’t a problem buying “blind” now. I’ve recommended Denkas to lots of people on KKF and they’re all great cutters. Don’t know anyone who is dissatisfied with a recent Denka purchase.

Same with mine, purchased the last one remaining in store, came out perfect!

 

[Hz_zzzzzz]

There isn’t a problem buying “blind” now. I’ve recommended Denkas to lots of people on KKF and they’re all great cutters. Don’t know anyone who is dissatisfied with a recent Denka purchase.

Same with mine, purchased the last one remaining in store, came out perfect!

I got mine in December 2020 so it’s not like years ago. Must be an outlier then.

 

[superworrier]

Hey man, that’s what they told me in store. Now the website is saying “temporarily oos” so I clearly have no idea what’s going on

Although they may have misspoke, the message on the website is probably just a generic OOS message and they haven’t removed it yet.

 

[lemeneid]

I got mine in December 2020 so it’s not like years ago. Must be an outlier then.

Did you buy from TF or a retailer? It’s a little odd though, every modern TF I know is thin as hell. What’s the weight of your knife?

 

[ljknb9264]

Did you buy from TF or a retailer? It’s a little odd though, every modern TF I know is thin as hell. What’s the weight of your knife?

As messages I got from TF, they are now receiving orders with almost same requests. They likely have better quality control nowadays. But I am not 100% sure.

 

[Keith Sinclair]

Just a little perspective all the knives discussed here are vastly superior to what 99%
of the mass population uses.

 

[Hz_zzzzzz]

Did you buy from TF or a retailer? It’s a little odd though, every modern TF I know is thin as hell. What’s the weight of your knife?

From TF directly. 216 gram for a 210.

 

[WaTFTanaki]

Same from TF directly Denka 210 3 months ago. 228 gms

 

[PeterL]

Mine is a 210 Denka western too that the previous owner got from TF directly a couple months ago. Weighs in at 222g.

 

[Corradobrit1]

You guys got some heavy 210 Denka's. Mine's a svelte 177g. It lost 3g after TF IV thinned the blade road.

 

[user 16756]

great news everyone! TF can now send out most of their 700 USD denkas without straight up garbage grinds, such that you only have to deal with low spots instead of too much meat bte (btw to be clear only one of the 3 tfs I currently own was _that_ bad the other two were only kinda bad)

definitely still a great knife to recommend to someone who's sharpening/thinning skills we dont know.

over a knife like a Toyama that's a known consistently good knife with a similarly great heat treat of a good steel.

come on folks, consider your audience please. if you are asking should I buy a TF, you're the wrong person. if you're asking why did I do this to myself? then youre the right audience.