New 240 Gyuto: Wat, Yoshikane or TF

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Hoppy

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I’m filling a gap in my current set and looking at a 240 Gyuto.

rest of my knives are Takedas with a Masaki petty which I like the knife but dislike the reactivity.

I’ve narrowed it down to:

TF Denka
Wat 240
TF Maboroshi
Yoshi SKD tsuchime

I’ve read a few articles around the Yoshikane and the the Wat and Denka seem to be highly regarded here too.

can anyone add anything that might help swing my decision?

thanks
 
Wat, but buy a Toyama branded knife instead IMO.

every TF knife Ive touched has needed a lot of work. in fact if you look in the sharpening section here you can see a 210 mab that is still a WIP after hours of working on it. that said, if shipping from Sugi isnt that bad and youre willing to pay a premium, they have TFs that are genuinely corrected. plus for me shirogami 1 > aogami super any day of the week. non super blue ok toss up.

Yoshikane has a lot of fans and it's well priced in comparison. for me, too light, too flat a profile, too short at the heel.

which leaves, of the knives on your list, the Wat, but with some of what Ive seen of Shinichi's responses lately, Id just get a Toyama and deal with say, Maxim. that's a knife I can unequivocally recommend.

btw now appears to be a good time to buy a stainless clad Togashi with the Hitohira branding. Ive seen a bunch around with nice handles in the same price range. a solid alternative.
 
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I would vote for the Watanabe stainless clad gyuto. His blue steel is my favorite I have encountered as well as his grind. They cut beautifully and have fantastic food release. They also feel great in hand.

All of the the above knives are excellent though.

TF will likely come with some fit and finish issues that are not what you’d like to see on a knife that expensive. The steel is literally at the top of the heap though. truly remarkable.

The Yoshikane will have superb fit and finish and fantastic steel, however theprofile of the edge can often be polarizing for people’s preferences. So if you pursue that option I would highly recommend trying to hold one in person. If you like the profile, you will not be disappointed. Great steel and some of the cleanest factory grinds I have ever seen
 
Haven't got my Yoshi long, but a few things that came to mind that may or may not be to your liking (or set it apart):

-Profile has a lot of flat spot, but not much height
-Grind leans towards thin and light... really smooth and light cut, but not a lot of heft or food release
-Good F&F, and from what I've seen they look very consistent from blade to blade
-The SKD is semi stainless, but on the lower end of the stainless scale; it will take a patina
 
It's hard to make a recommendation when we don't know what you are after.

You may wish to fill in the questionnaire (sticky at the top of the Kitchen Knife forum. Cut and paste into this thread and answer it.).
 
If you like it thin behind the edge TF Denka (AS) all day everyday. TF AS is easy to sharpen, retains that sharpness beyond what you'll see with W#1, and super stable even when ground stupid thin.
 
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Really depends on what you're after. Each one of the knives you listed are quite different from one another. Out of the 4, I've tried the TF Maboroshi and the Yoshikane SKD. I really wanted to like the Yoshikane, but the low flat profile was not something I could get along with. I absolutely love TF knives, and currently have 4 of them. The fit and finish doesnt bother me at all, but I also generally do some fit and finish adjustments of my own to smooth things out regardless (even on my Yoshikanes).

If you were to ask me which I would want in 240, I'd say TF, hands down. I'm quite biased but they're still my favorites.
 
Hoppy said:
I’m filling a gap in my current set and looking at a 240 Gyuto...
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Can you tell us just what the nature of that gap is?

Hoppy said:
can anyone add anything that might help swing my decision?

thanks
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Nah, I'll just confuse you even further: As your location is "Sydney, NSW Australia", have you also considered any Aussie-made knives?
 
Personally I would probably go for a Wat, 240mm TF's are definitely overpriced (regardless of how cool they are) and Yoshi's are just too flat and short for me. Although I definitely want another Yoshi and TF at some point. Really it's just going to be about what you want from your knife and how you would like to use it. Between these options you really can't go wrong.
 
tostadas said:
Really depends on what you're after. Each one of the knives you listed are quite different from one another.
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Bigbbaillie said:
Between these options you really can't go wrong.
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True and true...
I've tried Wat, Mab, and Yoshi. These are three very different knives. Never tried a Denka (and probably never will). Wat = tall + convex, Mab = avg height + thin grind, Yoshi = short + thin grind (but not as thin as a good Mab)
My preference is the Yoshi. I like the flat spot and, lately, have actually been liking shorter knives.
If this was a year or two ago, my preference would have been the Wat. At that point, I liked taller knives, and the Wat has a nice convex. All this to say, in a few months--or at least by next year--my preferences will change. 🤷‍♂️
So, I'll just echo:
Qapla' said:
Can you tell us just what the nature of that gap is?
Click to expand...
 
I have Yoshi and Toyama (so Wat, more or less) out of those. Other posts here sum up the differences pretty well, but I'll add that the tips of the two are very different--the Yoshi has a lot of taper and has a very thin, pointed tip that handles stuff like horizontal onion swipes and garlic beautifully. The Toyama tip is thicker and a little more bull-nosed so while it's got more forward balance and a hefty feel in hand, it'll need more oomph for those tasks.

Both great knives for sure. If I needed to bulk prep a ton of product I'd reach for the Toyama, for a smaller job with more fine work I'd take the Yoshi. For home cooking, the latter situation is a lot more of my daily cooking, so Yoshi gets more time on the board for me personally.
 
Hoppy said:
I’m filling a gap in my current set and looking at a 240 Gyuto.

rest of my knives are Takedas with a Masaki petty which I like the knife but dislike the reactivity.

I’ve narrowed it down to:

TF Denka
Wat 240
TF Maboroshi
Yoshi SKD tsuchime

I’ve read a few articles around the Yoshikane and the the Wat and Denka seem to be highly regarded here too.

can anyone add anything that might help swing my decision?

thanks
Click to expand...
Of those choices? TF Denka—best of the bunch IMO! I have a 240 denka, 2 Watanabe iron clad blue gyutos, and a Yoshikane skd tsuchime petty, all wonderful knives—but hands down, 24/7 it would be TF Denka for me. Great steel, profile, grind, loads of character, and a good dose of wabi-sabi to boot. The Wat and Yoshi are fine, but for me a little plain Jane. If going for a TF, why get a mab when you can go denka? Also, denkas are one of the most popular and polarizing kkf thread topics! Good luck in your quest.
Also, think there’s a reason why you listed TF Denka first on your list, …can’t stop thinking of denka huh? ;)
 
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Thanks for all your comments. It’s been really helpful.

I’m starting to think that maybe I’m going to live by the N+1 rule and need two knives at this size to fill my needs. Im guessing this is a common theme on here 😜

Definitely leaning towards the Denka and Toyama.

I do love the appearance of the Yoshikane SKD too and am still in an early phase of my knife journey. Hence very keen to try some more of the steels and maker‘s influence.
 
I have two on your list and have had something very close to one of the others. I will probably end up trying them all eventually, you might too.
 
Hoppy said:
Thanks for all your comments. It’s been really helpful.

I’m starting to think that maybe I’m going to live by the N+1 rule and need two knives at this size to fill my needs. Im guessing this is a common theme on here 😜

Definitely leaning towards the Denka and Toyama.

I do love the appearance of the Yoshikane SKD too and am still in an early phase of my knife journey. Hence very keen to try some more of the steels and maker‘s influence.
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I’ve never heard of the ‘N+1 rule.’ The term ‘need’ is a perpetually moving thing, prone to redefining. Just get something you really want.
 
Kind of depends on what you want to do. These are all radically different. If you looking for a universal gyuto then probably the Wat. I have a Denka and the edge retention and ease of sharpening are insane. But it’s a beast of a knife, so I alternate it with it’s antithesis, a much thinner Takada suiboku white 2 by Y Tanaka for variety, depending on the task and my mood. The takada is not dissimilar from the Yoshikane. I love my Wat but am not using it now because the Denka & Takada Suiboku form kind of perfect combo for me, because the Wat kind of sits in between the two knives. If I had to toad trip ans take only one knife it would be the Wat.
 
Out of the choices, TF Denka all the time.

It has the best heat treatment of the lot. Not to mention the best cutting ability and edge retention. The knife just cuts differently from the rest.

As for Wat, I’ll rather you get a Toyama, if the reports are true, then Wat doesn’t give a crap about customers any longer. Just grab a Toyama from JNS.

Never tried a Yoshi.
 
note that the yoshi nashiji is thinner and nicer than the hammered version, its almost identical to kono YS.

steel is great on the stones and almost a stainless, i find this knife to be super thin behind the edge, thinner than my HD2.

its one of my favorites because its super flat, you should be aware of this. if it's suits your style you will like it, if it's doest you will suffer

you can also look at new kono YW, look like the same knife in a white steel.
 
lemeneid said:
Out of the choices, TF Denka all the time.

It has the best heat treatment of the lot. Not to mention the best cutting ability and edge retention. The knife just cuts differently from the rest.

As for Wat, I’ll rather you get a Toyama, if the reports are true, then Wat doesn’t give a crap about customers any longer. Just grab a Toyama from JNS.

Never tried a Yoshi.
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thanks. I’ve read many of your posts praising the Denka!

Can I ask what reports you’ve heard about Wat and his service? I was only on Wats website last night browsing lovingly.
 
Yoshi SKD tsuchime and TF denka or mab are great knives, but they have less personality than Wat 240.

These three cut really well but due to its profile, self-weight and balance, they are definately not a workhorse.

Wat or toyama are really solid tools that you can use it for big batch of cutting.

Personal recommendation, get a toyama (stainless-clad is good, dammy version is even better) or wat. Meanwhile, you can check whoever is selling Yoshi dammy sld or SKD in KKF.

When it reaches to the point that you feel the edge retention of your knives is not good enough, then you can try TF denka. Pretty pricey. Edge retention is slightly better than toyama.
 
Honestly considering you don't seem to know what you want, Denka seems like a bad decision IMO. For the price of the 240, you could try Wat and Yoshi and still have some cash leftover.
 
Really all good knives, much depends on your tastes in knives—price point, weight, profile, aesthetics, etc. Regarding weight, my experience considers them as Wat (heavy, my 240 is 276g), Denka (mid weight), Yoshi (light).

So, obviously I'm biased towards denka.

Denka is a very versatile gyuto, one of my best cutters, perfect weight for me, one of my keepers. Much has been said on KKF about denkas having wonky f&f and being terribly overpriced. Everyone I know personally, that owns a denka, didn't find major issues with their knife, f&f is generally good from what I've heard, no more than a lot of other handmade knife brands—even some of the slick looking Sakai knives from famous makers can reveal issues.

Are denkas overpriced? Absolutely not! Denkas cost what they cost, I get annoyed when people do price comparisons citing cheaper knives as better value. Sure, I can get 2 Mazakis and a ginga petty for the price of a denka—but if denka gets the heart racing, that's what's needed. Denkas are worth every penny to me.

All this said—Wat, TF denka, Yoshi skd nash, are all good knives. Your move!


8F8F0A51-5D6C-4E95-9826-67DC45CB421F.JPG
 
Those are three very different knives with at least five different configurations avail.

The iron clad Wat is a classic and like no other. Love mine. The stainless clad is a very nice knife but at the end of the day it's just another very nice knife. I could not find the magic.

I've found the Yoshi tsuchime (Epic Edge version - only data point) to be kind of clunky. The SKD Amekiri from James is one of the great knives in my kit. (As is the white and the Kashima from Cleancut)

TFs are TFs. While lauded by some, most agree that they are project knives, albeit expensive project knives. Tried one - OK but not great.
WTFWtfWTF

And Gengetsu is noticeably absent from your list.

+
 
DitmasPork said:
Are denkas overpriced? Absolutely not! Denkas cost what they cost, I get annoyed when people do price comparisons citing cheaper knives as better value. Sure, I can get 2 Mazakis and a ginga petty for the price of a denka—but if denka gets the heart racing, that's what's needed. Denkas are worth every penny to me.
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this is a mischaracterization IMO.

it's not Denkas are better but cost a lot more so it's diminishing returns

Mazakis are straight up better lol. So are a lot of other knives.Again any number of Togashi knives have better HT, better grinds, better F&F. ok maybe you want a Denka anyway fine but I find the premise that the Denka is this ultra high performance knife that is so much better than these other knives straight up laughable. maybe, MAYBE as as fun object it equals out in practice. but it definitely doesnt beat.

if I thought Denka was even in the same league as say, a Shihan, a high end Togashi/Tanaka from the right sharpener, etc I wouldnt care about the price at all.
 
I'm not discounting the experience of the other Watanabe thread, but I did want to add my experience as (a) it was really positive communication with Shinichi and (b) the Toyama are OOS at JNS. I just recently purchased a 120mm lefty ajikiri from Shinichi (about three weeks ago). I contacted him on a Friday, he responded on Saturday, we had the deal struck on Sunday, and I had my knife in hand (in Virginia) on the following Friday. Even typing that it is hard to believe the timeline.

Beyond that, I upgraded the handle (the plastic ferule with a ridge has always been a "rub" for me...see what I did there?). Shinichi provided a Watanabe branded Tenugui as a gift (new customer, maybe?) and I still have not gotten my kids to get recycle the last of the Japanese newsprint that served as padding in the box.

The knife: I've rounded the choil and spine with a file and 420 grit sandpaper, but otherwise I see no reason to work on it out of the box. It is hair-shaving sharp and has no obvious flaws. I have dissected some speckled trout (small 1.5 lb fish) and rockfish (medium 2.5 lb fish) and the knife is exactly what I hoped it would be when I purchased it. The experience was just flat-out good and I am a happy customer direct from Shinichi. Maybe I got lucky. The thread that lemeneid shared is concerning, but I expereinced none of that personally.

I say this because for the reasons described above, I would lean stainless clad Wat as well. I buy the reasoning made in the very first response by tcmx3.
 
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