New 240 Gyuto: Wat, Yoshikane or TF

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tcmx3 said:
great news everyone! TF can now send out most of their 700 USD denkas without straight up garbage grinds, such that you only have to deal with low spots instead of too much meat bte (btw to be clear only one of the 3 tfs I currently own was _that_ bad the other two were only kinda bad)

definitely still a great knife to recommend to someone who's sharpening/thinning skills we dont know.

over a knife like a Toyama that's a known consistently good knife with a similarly great heat treat of a good steel.

come on folks, consider your audience please. if you are asking should I buy a TF, you're the wrong person. if you're asking why did I do this to myself? then youre the right audience.
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Corradobrit1 said:
You guys got some heavy 210 Denka's. Mine's a svelte 177g. It lost 3g after TF IV thinned the blade road.
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Mine lost 7 grams to remove 2 low spots. Actually I don't mind having a few more grams since I was prepared for a project knife. More meats give more room for fine tuning. It was pretty good after the work. Like lemeneid said, cut well with solid/stiff workhorse feel, plus the great steel. I didn't find the AS more keen than white 1 like lemenid mentioned, but I also feel TF AS edge could get quite keen easily and is very stable.
 
Hmm my Morihei 240 is 247g and my Denka was 253g. Thought I could use more weight though. But they’re both ridiculously thin for their weight. My Denka definitely has a thick spine.
 
Only tried one denka and one maboroshi. Neither of them had good grinds. They were both kinda flat wide bevels. Given spine thinness I’d say they came as chunky middle weights (on the lasery side without laser qualities); not workhorses by any means (No real meat, no significant weight, no nice convex grind).
watanabe on the other hand. It’s the best japanese knife I’ve tried.

so, I recommend denka!
 
Carl Kotte said:
Only tried one denka and one maboroshi. Neither of them had good grinds. They were both kinda flat wide bevels. Given spine thinness I’d say they came as chunky middle weights (on the lasery side without laser qualities); not workhorses by any means (No real meat, no significant weight, no nice convex grind).
watanabe on the other hand. It’s the best japanese knife I’ve tried.

so, I recommend denka!
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GLWS. Keep increasing the price and it will sell eventually.
 
Hz_zzzzzz said:
My Morihei 240 was 225g. It cuts pretty well but lacks the workhorse feel. More like a lighter mid-weight laser.
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Interesting. That was my impression when I had 210 and 240 iron clad Morihei's. The regular TF Mabs and Denka's have a density and heft thats reminiscent of my Honyaki's. The Nashiji on the other hand is a total lightweight.
 
Hoppy said:
I’m filling a gap in my current set and looking at a 240 Gyuto.

rest of my knives are Takedas with a Masaki petty which I like the knife but dislike the reactivity.

I’ve narrowed it down to:

TF Denka
Wat 240
TF Maboroshi
Yoshi SKD tsuchime

I’ve read a few articles around the Yoshikane and the the Wat and Denka seem to be highly regarded here too.

can anyone add anything that might help swing my decision?

thanks
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FWIW, I like having one of each. Sorry, I'm no help!
I bit the bullet and got a denka pretty early, and it made me feel like a master sharpener. Reality struck later, I'm average at best.
I'm with you on Mazaki reactivity. Loved everything else, that was a deal breaker. Mizuno too.
 
captaincaed said:
FWIW, I like having one of each. Sorry, I'm no help!
I bit the bullet and got a denka pretty early, and it made me feel like a master sharpener. Reality struck later, I'm average at best.
I'm with you on Mazaki reactivity. Loved everything else, that was a deal breaker. Mizuno too.
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My Mazaki Ku got rusted spots in the ku area occasionally. Kato's cladding also has crazy reactivity. I guess Maz learnt that from him.
 
I have a 210 denka (ordered direct with a few specifications) and 240 SS toyama. F&F on the denka is definitely really bad for the price but the grind is actually better than on the toyama with a distal taper that ends in a perfect tip for me (thin but not so thin that you always have to worry about tipping it). it's pretty thin bte, was sharp out of the box and there were no issues with the blade road. I haven't checked for low spots yet.

tried to get a 225x54 (or 210 with more height) toyama with a finer tip but none of the resellers want to take custom orders though. maybe one day! 😄
 
lemeneid said:
Hmm my Morihei 240 is 247g and my Denka was 253g. Thought I could use more weight though. But they’re both ridiculously thin for their weight. My Denka definitely has a thick spine.
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Thick spines are fine as long what's below is a good grind.
 
For new friends to learn thinning, I would recommend Heiji Carbon steel with Kurochi finish. It's easy to sharpen. It has A LOT steel to remove. Keeping the kurochi intact could be a small fun challenge while you are thinning. Removing the kurochi and adding a hairline finish could also be something you can have fun with as next stage. If you like it as it is OOTB, it's also a very good knife in its category. I mean it has true zero edge and a very stiff/solid grind. It cuts anything other than dense tall produce like a charm.

And most importantly, it only costs you <$300 direct from Heiji. A 240 denka would costs $800+.
 
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lemeneid said:
I love thicker spines with super thin grinds on my knives. That’s how I chose my knives now, so you get the weight of workhorses with the cutting ability of lasers.
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I totally agree with this in my limited but growing experience in using Japanese kitchen knives (hence my professed love for my Kisuke Nakiri that I have posted elsewhere), but maybe hadn’t thought of it in exactly these terms or have brand familiarity as to which blacksmiths tend to hit this balance. @lemeneid What makes and models do you find to epitomize the “laser pushed by a hammer” balance?
 
cawilson6072 said:
I totally agree with this in my limited but growing experience in using Japanese kitchen knives (hence my professed love for my Kisuke Nakiri that I have posted elsewhere), but maybe hadn’t thought of it in exactly these terms or have brand familiarity as to which blacksmiths tend to hit this balance. @lemeneid What makes and models do you find to epitomize the “laser pushed by a hammer” balance?
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If you don’t have much experience in this. Just look for tall and heavy knives in general. That will be a good place to start and check their spine thickness and choil to confirm.

Short knives in general aren’t able to be heavy and thin together. There are exceptions but not many.
 
Hz_zzzzzz said:
For new friends to learn thinning, I would recommend Heiji Carbon steel with Kurochi finish. It's easy to sharpen. It has A LOT steel to remove. Keeping the kurochi intact could be a small fun challenge while you are thinning. Removing the kurochi and adding a hairline finish could also be something you can have fun with as next stage. If you like it as it is OOTB, it's also a very good knife in its category. I mean it has true zero edge and a very stiff/solid grind. It cuts anything other than dense tall produce like a charm.

And most importantly, it only costs you <$300 direct from Heiji. A 240 denka would costs $800+.
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And the spine is straight and no holes in the edge. On the Heiji that is.

P.S. The semi-stainless one comes with the Predator dots
 
Hoppy said:
I’ve narrowed it down to:

TF Denka
Wat 240
TF Maboroshi
Yoshi SKD tsuchime
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Excellent choices and I'd agree that the Denka is the "best" knife. But you might prefer a Wat 240 over a western Denka 240 if you want a lighter (but not light) knife.
 
Just wanted to add to the Shinichi comments on this thread. I recently contacted him about a Wat Pro 180 that he had in stock and said I'd like to buy it and asked for a picture of the actual knife. I added that I hoped the ferrule/handle was not too uneven. He responded promptly:

"Thanks for your reply.
Sorry, we don't take each pictures.
D-shaped burnt chestnut wood with plastic hilt are same.
It doesn't fit smoothly."

I nonetheless decided to buy the knife. He shipped it immediately (with a small gift, which I think is a standard practice for him) and the nakiri was awesome. The plastic is plastic, but the handle is fine.

So, rough edge in communication? Sure. But my experience was good.
 
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