WTB old Robert Herder chef knife wanted

[deskjockey]

Robert Herder chef knife on the forum

This post really got me interested in the older Robert Herder knives. I'm pretty flexible for the right price but, ideally, I would like a near clone of Benuser's knife in that post.

I am receptive to "for sale" posts on other forums and shipping a knife in from the EU region. I am looking for a user so, reasonable "wear and tear" that is consistent with the price is fine with me as well as I am NOT looking for something to put under a banker's light in a glass display case.

I like the Gyuto/French general profile so, a low tip with some distal taper is part of the attraction. The high tip with a lot of belly along with an overly thick general blade profile of a modern German Chef's knife isn't what I'm looking for but, I also don't expect a Japanese laser either.

TIA,
Sid

 

[SirCutAlot]

This is not an old one... You can buy them as pictured... The HRC 60 is the newer one. They are nailing like Lasers with thick necks. Very good knife over all.

SirCutAlot

 

[deskjockey]

The "Windmill" knives are an option if I cannot score a 1922. The fingerguard and history of the 1922 version is part of the attraction for me.

 

[jonnachang]

PM sent.

 

[Jovidah]

The "Windmill" knives are an option if I cannot score a 1922. The fingerguard and history of the 1922 version is part of the attraction for me.

I suppose you mean the K-series knives? Windmill is the logo of Robert Herder, and as a result they're sometimes referred to as Windmühlenmesser (windmill knives), but they're just different names for the same company.
I think Bernal is the place to go to for Robert Herder stuff in the US, but even in Europe they've been running out of stock the last few years. Not sure if they're coming back or if they have something similar in the pipeline.
In the K-series the closest thing to it would be the K-chef; that one runs 22.5. It's a slightly different beast than the 1922 though; no fingerguard (personally I consider that an advantage), but also slightly different profile, and different handles (that have some issues; see my K5 review).

 

[deskjockey]

Yes, probably an artifact of my forgotten German and bad translations on various web links.

The K5 and K6 seem to be the current models along with a bunch of smaller K knives. When I looked at the 1922 in some web pictures and read some Messerforum posts, the cutting edge extended below the finger guard a few mm. The finger guard itself was pretty slim down low near the edge so, if it was ever sharpened down that much, pulling the finger guard away from the edge would be a lot easier than it is on the modern German chef knives I have seen. The tips on those older 1922 knives also seem to be lower than the modern K-series knives. On chef knives, I find I don't want a huge amount of belly so, I think that is one of the reasons why I prefer Gyuto/French chef knives in general even though, at some points in time I really want the heft of a classic German chef knife with some cutting chores in my kitchen. I just haven't warmed up to a Yo-Deba (thinner double sided Deba?). With heavier cutting and the increased pressure on the blade, I value a finger guard for general protection as I have hurt my finger (minor mishap) when it impacted the blade below the choil (area between the tang and edge).

 

[Jovidah]

Well at least the knives in the K-series don't have a lot of belly, so in that sense they're better. But they lean more towards a Japanese profile (although admittedly that's French-inspired anyway). So the K5 is a lot like a 180 gyuto/santoku hybrid, while the K Chef profile is more like a gyuto than a classic German knife. Due to the lighter construction it won't have the same heft either (I only have the K5 and K6 but those are both relatively lightweight).

 

[Benuser]

The Herder K Chef has nothing to do with the 1922 series. I would call it a large, narrow Santoku. Not exactly helpful with forward slicing, as in 'guillotine and glide'. Expect tip damage to occur. Besides: so far only in stainless. Price €230 incl. VAT. Hard to see in which respect this innovative design is well-thought.
https://www.windmuehlenmesser.de/en/product/k-chef-plum-wood/

 

[SirCutAlot]

There are quite good carbon ones of the K Series... If you consider 1.2519 as good (boring stuff... Nearly every knife was made of it in the 90`tys...)



SirCutAlot

 

[deskjockey]

Yes, the K series seem to be styled to appeal to the Japanese knife fans that are popular in Europe these days.

 

[Jovidah]

The Herder K Chef has nothing to do with the 1922 series. I would call it a large, narrow Santoku. Not exactly helpful with forward slicing, as in 'guillotine and glide'. Expect tip damage to occur. Besides: so far only in stainless. Price €230 incl. VAT. Hard to see in which respect this innovative design is well-thought.
https://www.windmuehlenmesser.de/en/product/k-chef-plum-wood/

If it's anything like my K5 I actually wouldn't worry much about fragility. 1.2519 at 60-61 HRC is far from chippy... and the K5 somehow has a 'reassuring' feel to it. Hard to describe, but even though it's thin behind the edge and goes through all root vegetables with flying colors it actually doesn't feel delicate in the slightest. As much as I complain about the stickyness (due to high blade polish) and the issues with the 'handle toe', I could actually still see myself getting a K Chef eventually.

 

[parbaked]

I would talk to Josh at Bernal Cutlery.
They have a relationship with Herder and are very knowledgeable about vintage European knives.

 

[Benuser]

If it's anything like my K5 I actually wouldn't worry much about fragility. 1.2519 at 60-61 HRC is far from chippy... and the K5 somehow has a 'reassuring' feel to it. Hard to describe, but even though it's thin behind the edge and goes through all root vegetables with flying colors it actually doesn't feel delicate in the slightest. As much as I complain about the stickyness (due to high blade polish) and the issues with the 'handle toe', I could actually still see myself getting a K Chef eventually.

Sorry if I haven't been clearer. With santokus used in forward motions you often see a damaged tip as it sticks into the board, independant of hardness or being brittle. Almost any santoku I sharpen shows it. The damage itself isn't that worrying. It just proves the profile doesn't match that well with forward slicing. By the way: the K Chef is so far are only available as stainless. At that price level I guess there are quite a few other interesting carbon options.

 

[Jovidah]

Sorry if I haven't been clearer. With santokus used in forward motions you often see a damaged tip as it sticks into the board, independant of hardness or being brittle. Almost any santoku I sharpen shows it. The damage itself isn't that worrying. It just proves the profile doesn't match that well with forward slicing. By the way: the K Chef is so far are only available as stainless. At that price level I guess there are quite a few other interesting carbon options.

Hasn't been a problem for me with the K5 and I tend to have quite some forward motion in my push-cuts. That one probably has a lower tip than the K Chef. Maybe it comes from people rockchopping with santokus? I don't know; I never had a damaged tip on any knife so far *knocks on wood*.

The K Chef does exist in carbon, but only with a plum handle. And the price seems to be getting less attractive any time I check... Which is also the main reason I don't own one. At 150 bucks, even with the handle issues it has I'd probably have caved in already, but at 250 it starts competing in a different league.

Some examples of carbon version on sale:
Windmühlenmesser K-Serie von Herder Messer mit Tradition
HERDER K Chef extra grosses Kochmesser 22,5cm nicht rostfrei Pflaumenholzgriff | Messerkontor

 

[Jeroen]

I owned a 1992 version wich i sold when i got into japanese knives. But there is a few of them listed on ebay.de and i found a german website wich stil have them in stock.