Ordering direct from maker compared to vendors

[wasacook]

This is a question(s) for those folks who have ordered directly from makers like Shibata, Watanabe, or others in Japan.

• What was the communication process like
• How did you hear about ordering direct
• Did you receive any type or price reduction compared to ordering from a middle man
• How long was your weight time
• What would you want to tell others about your experience or the process as a whole

I have heard folks in the past tell others to just contact some makers directly but I have never really heard much about the process or follow up. So I am now curious what its all like. The only thing that I remember is hearing that it took most folks around three months to get their blades and saw some folks with custom engraving on their tinker tanks.

 

[jedy617]

Ordering directly from Tadokoro hamono, great experience. Worked directly with the wife of the sharpener. Definitely cheaper ordering direct vs a retailer. Wait time was like 6 months iirc? There are a lot of threads on the forum regarding this process, just search for them. There are threads for tadokoro, TF, Heiji, and more

 

[Steve56]

I ordered a 195mm TF Denka gyuto direct.

What was the communication process like

Easy. The web page is well done, no issues. Some special configurations/knives you still have to email or call, but most everything is available from the page.

How did you hear about ordering direct

KKF

Did you receive any type or price reduction compared to ordering from a middle man

Yes, the knife was about $450 + shipping. The knife would be about $100 more in the US and subject to about 10% tax where I live. So about $600 here. You can select cheap or free ‘slow boat’ shipping, express (mine came DHL for about $60), or super speedy for silly money considering there is a wait time.

How long was your weight time

Listed as about 6 weeks, but it was ready in about 4.

What would you want to tell others about your experience or the process as a whole

Nothing really. There’s a comment box that you can request say a different handle, thinner or taller blade, etc. I also got a nice pink swag towel with their contact info on it. They’re good at taking your money painlessly.

Hope this helps

Steve

 

[labor of love]

Ordered directly from Watanabe and Heiji many many times. Watanabe ships immediately in my experience. Heiji usually 4 month-6 month wait for custom work. Last custom he ghosted me on I guess? Both knives are considerably cheaper than vendors however I much prefer JKI for Heiji if it’s instock as Jon cleans them up some.
I’d tell others ordering from Watanabe is slightly a better move as you can pick from an array of custom handles if that’s your thing but I’ve received bent blades directly and the likelihood of something like that happening through a vender shouldn’t happen considering my expectation that they’re inspecting their inventory.

 

[blokey]

Really depends on who you are dealing with, but generally I have positive experiences, con is once the knife is in your hand it’s harder to get customer service compare to a local vendor, you have ship it back all the way if there’s any problems

 

[YumYumSauce]

I ordered a 195mm TF Denka gyuto direct.



Easy. The web page is well done, no issues. Some special configurations/knives you still have to email or call, but most everything is available from the page.



KKF



Yes, the knife was about $450 + shipping. The knife would be about $100 more in the US and subject to about 10% tax where I live. So about $600 here. You can select cheap or free ‘slow boat’ shipping, express (mine came DHL for about $60), or super speedy for silly money considering there is a wait time.



Listed as about 6 weeks, but it was ready in about 4.




Nothing really. There’s a comment box that you can request say a different handle, thinner or taller blade, etc. I also got a nice pink swag towel with their contact info on it. They’re good at taking your money painlessly.

Hope this helps

Steve

Pretty much my experience ordering the same 195mm gytuo from TF. Mine took 3 months to arrive because they had to make more and it was during covid so I didn't mind the wait. Payment was thru paypal I believe. I asked to engrave the knife with the Kanji "tatakai" in the comment section and they did without trouble. Don't think I got a shaggy pink towel tho.

 

[Heckel7302]

I’ve gotten three knives direct from Japan, TF, Watanabe, and Shibata. All were very easy experiences. Shibata was the same price as western retail. TF was obviously quite a bit less, but you get what you get. Watanabe direct is the only way so no comparing price.

 

[Corradobrit1]

TF was obviously quite a bit less, but you get what you get.

Not necessarily true. I always had 3-6 examples to choose from with vids, detailed pics incl one with edge resting on board to detect over grinds, weights and precise measurements. I was never disappointed with what landed on my doorstep.

 

[labor of love]

Not necessarily true. I always had 3-6 examples to choose from with vids, detailed pics incl one with edge resting on board to detect over grinds, weights and precise measurements. I was never disappointed with what landed on my doorstep.

You’re describing TF direct ordering here? If so that’s exciting to hear.

 

[Corradobrit1]

You’re describing TF direct ordering here? If so that’s exciting to hear.

Only purchased new TF's direct. 6 so far.

 

[Heckel7302]

Not necessarily true. I always had 3-6 examples to choose from with vids, detailed pics incl one with edge resting on board to detect over grinds, weights and precise measurements. I was never disappointed with what landed on my doorstep.

I guess I wasn’t pushy enough about getting pics. Luckily it worked out in the end, bevels were great.

 

[Corradobrit1]

I guess I wasn’t pushy enough about getting pics. Luckily it worked out in the end, bevels were great.

Pushy is counterproductive. Establishing a rapport gets results.

 

[labor of love]

@Heckel7302 just NameDrop @Corradobrit1 when you contact TF next time and you’ll get whatever you want made however you want it. Shipped in 2 weeks

 

[Heckel7302]

I'm not planning to order a half dozen, happy with my singular example.

Pushy is counterproductive. Establishing a rapport gets results.

 

[Corradobrit1]

I'm not planning to order a half dozen, happy with my singular example.

They were all good. I didn't have to get 4 dogs to end up with 2 good ones. Rapport was built through conversation and not purchases.

 

[Budrichard]

My experience goes back 40 years.
I wanted a Honyaki made by the best bladesmith in Japan at the time. No way could I find out nor establish any contact at the time.
Murray Carter was working in Japan at the time and agreed to act as a ’broker’ for me. Murray understood my desire for a Japanese maker. Sent the money and six months later the knife arrived via Murray’s father in Canada.
Beautiful Kenichi Shrikai mirror polish, ebony/ivory/ silver handle and saya.
Met Shosui (Takeda Hamano) at a knife show and over the years he made a-number of blades for me including a 300mm Honyaki. All have rosewood matching handles.
Now Shosui only deals with Dealers and I refuse to chase after a knife.
Today it’s easier to get mass produced Japanese knives from websites that have an English option. But if you want to contact and individual maker for a custom order, from a specific maker you chances are are about zero in my opinion.
I purchased a Nakagawa 330mm VG10 Mirror from a Dealer because I could not contact Nakagawa for the exact knife I wanted.
As Kenichi’s apprentice, he produced an excellent knife!
But no ebony/ivory/silver or Saya.
I would like to contact him for another blade but have no idea?
Yes there are a-few makers as Posted that one can contact and order but as with Custom Knives in the USA. makers have gone to selling only to Dealers to reduce the burden on themselves and I prefer to order a custom directly.
So for me the market is very limited and I rarely , try to find a Dealer that has that blade in stcok.purchase anymore because I can‘t order directly and at the prices for some of the blades asked, I won’t join the ‘feeding frenzy’ to acquire the ‘Hot’ maker.
On the secondary market it’s very difficult to determine if a knife for sale is actually what is represented!
There are a-number of ‘Kenichi Shirikai‘ knives for sale on websites and eBay at this time. I think maybe most of them Kenichi may have looked at and a-few maybe discarded? I asked one seller to send me pictures of Kenichi’s markings and never heard from him. One vender told me they had to look at a knife for the markings I wanted and I never heard from him.
So if you want a truly custom blade from a maker,of your choosing, your chance's are about zero in my opinion from my experiences.
The best one can do is decide what type of knife you want, inhabit this Forum and then when you make up your mind. order.
I would like a custom bunka from Nakagawa, ain’t gonna happen so I just ordered a Shibata Kotetsu from KnifeWear.
Best I could do and certainly a lot less expensive.
-Richard

 

[Steve56]

Fujiwara will make at least a Denka, kind of to your specs, IOW, a little taller, a little thinner, a better handle, etc. Not quite like a fully tailor made suit, more like the ‘pre-fab’ suit that is made to be adjusted for you. I take it from the Fujiwara website that they will make uncommon knives but have no idea how long it would take - and I’m sure that it would be pricey.

This approach is probably good enough except for the most hardcore of us, where having a 100% unique knife is the goal. That’s because the Japanese make a specific knife for almost every purpose, so aside from collecting there’s less incentive for a custom as far as shape/function goes. Chestnut knife, horse mackerel knife, eel knife, octopus knife, bellied tuna knife, chicken and goose knives, and so on. Almost every animal gets its own shape.

 

[jedy617]

My experience goes back 40 years.
I wanted a Honyaki made by the best bladesmith in Japan at the time. No way could I find out nor establish any contact at the time.
Murray Carter was working in Japan at the time and agreed to act as a ’broker’ for me. Murray understood my desire for a Japanese maker. Sent the money and six months later the knife arrived via Murray’s father in Canada.
Beautiful Kenichi Shrikai mirror polish, ebony/ivory/ silver handle and saya.
Met Shosui (Takeda Hamano) at a knife show and over the years he made a-number of blades for me including a 300mm Honyaki. All have rosewood matching handles.
Now Shosui only deals with Dealers and I refuse to chase after a knife.
Today it’s easier to get mass produced Japanese knives from websites that have an English option. But if you want to contact and individual maker for a custom order, from a specific maker you chances are are about zero in my opinion.
I purchased a Nakagawa 330mm VG10 Mirror from a Dealer because I could not contact Nakagawa for the exact knife I wanted.
As Kenichi’s apprentice, he produced an excellent knife!
But no ebony/ivory/silver or Saya.
I would like to contact him for another blade but have no idea?
Yes there are a-few makers as Posted that one can contact and order but as with Custom Knives in the USA. makers have gone to selling only to Dealers to reduce the burden on themselves and I prefer to order a custom directly.
So for me the market is very limited and I rarely , try to find a Dealer that has that blade in stcok.purchase anymore because I can‘t order directly and at the prices for some of the blades asked, I won’t join the ‘feeding frenzy’ to acquire the ‘Hot’ maker.
On the secondary market it’s very difficult to determine if a knife for sale is actually what is represented!
There are a-number of ‘Kenichi Shirikai‘ knives for sale on websites and eBay at this time. I think maybe most of them Kenichi may have looked at and a-few maybe discarded? I asked one seller to send me pictures of Kenichi’s markings and never heard from him. One vender told me they had to look at a knife for the markings I wanted and I never heard from him.
So if you want a truly custom blade from a maker,of your choosing, your chance's are about zero in my opinion from my experiences.
The best one can do is decide what type of knife you want, inhabit this Forum and then when you make up your mind. order.
I would like a custom bunka from Nakagawa, ain’t gonna happen so I just ordered a Shibata Kotetsu from KnifeWear.
Best I could do and certainly a lot less expensive.
-Richard

As stated with some examples above you can order from many specific makers these days. For some of the big ones you just have to go through a dealer, or you are tied with a sharpener. For example you say you want a Nakagawa, go through Tadokoro, the sharpener, they do everything from Nakagawa forged knives and they will pretty much do anything you want. I got a custom shaped sujihiki.

The blacksmith/sharpener doesn't make the handle and saya 99.9% of the time so not sure why that's an issue, just buy them custom made. That being said, Tadokoro has a bunch of different handle and saya choices.

 

[jedy617]

I would like a custom bunka from Nakagawa, ain’t gonna happen so I just ordered a Shibata Kotetsu from KnifeWear.
Best I could do and certainly a lot less expensive.
-Richard

Why not? I got one. Well it's a k tip gyuto but same thing just bigger

https://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/threads/custom-tadokoro-b1-225mm-gyuto.69258/

 

[bsfsu]

As stated with some examples above you can order from many specific makers these days. For some of the big ones you just have to go through a dealer, or you are tied with a sharpener. For example you say you want a Nakagawa, go through Tadokoro, the sharpener, they do everything from Nakagawa forged knives and they will pretty much do anything you want. I got a custom shaped sujihiki.

The blacksmith/sharpener doesn't make the handle and saya 99.9% of the time so not sure why that's an issue, just buy them custom made. That being said, Tadokoro has a bunch of different handle and saya choices.

Tadokoro Hamono also sells knives forged by Yoshikazu Tanaka, just add 20% on to the cost.

 

[jedy617]

Tadokoro Hamono also sells knives forged by Yoshikazu Tanaka, just add 20% on to the cost.

Interesting, never heard that before. Honestly they are both good enough for me. Would be cool to see if they would do Tanaka AS though since Nakagawa doesn't do it.

 

[esoo]

Tadokoro Hamono also sells knives forged by Yoshikazu Tanaka, just add 20% on to the cost.

Why would you do that? In my limited experience I would take Nagakawa over Tanaka any day.

 

[JoBone]

I would like a custom bunka from Nakagawa, ain’t gonna happen

Talk to me in about 9 months ;-)

 

[bsfsu]

Why would you do that? In my limited experience I would take Nagakawa over Tanaka any day.

Sorry 30%
That's the pricing list from Tadokoro Hamono you can have that conversation with Tadokoro-san yourself.

"Mirror finish is up 20%.
Mirror finish on the cutting edge is increased by 20%.
Damascus finish is 30% higher
Silver 3 in Yamatsuka is 20% more than the above price.
Tanaka is 30% more than the above price.
Toyonaga is 20% off the above price.
Arched like a Japanese sword. 10%〜20%more.
SG2 (Super Gold)40％more Blue 1 steel.*SG2 is doubl blade only."

 

[blokey]

Sorry 30%
That's the pricing list from Tadokoro Hamono you can have that conversation with Tadokoro-san yourself.

"Mirror finish is up 20%.
Mirror finish on the cutting edge is increased by 20%.
Damascus finish is 30% higher
Silver 3 in Yamatsuka is 20% more than the above price.
Tanaka is 30% more than the above price.
Toyonaga is 20% off the above price.
Arched like a Japanese sword. 10%〜20%more.
SG2 (Super Gold)40％more Blue 1 steel.*SG2 is doubl blade only."

Kind interested in Yamatsuka’s Ginsan tho, heard a lot of good thing about his work

 

[jedy617]

I like my hado bunka forged by him, but have no other ginsan to compare it with. Definitely got dull quicker than sg2 I'm used to, but got shaving sharp in 2 minutes on my choseras