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Edge retention chart of various steels
Recommendations for a high quality powdered steel gyuto or sujihiki
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Edge retention chart of various steels
Steampunk
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Well, I would second @blokey , and suggest an Akifusa SRS-15 240mm Sujihiki based upon the Venn-diagram of your usage/preferences: Epicurean Edge: Japanese and European professional chefs knives .
For your application (Slicing boneless proteins, only.) you probably don't need a gyuto, and I think your interest in PM steels makes sense for this application. Hot proteins can quickly degrade the edge of simple carbons like Shirogami #2, or even Aogami Super (AS will get you through slicing meat for one cookout with friends/family. White #2 will get you through a small meal for two.), and if you're going to ship a knife out to be sharpened, not having to do so often certainly doesn't hurt.
However, I would probably steer clear of HAP-40, or any similar steels that will require diamonds and more time/angle control to sharpen properly. At least at this stage in your learning curve. In my experience, SRS-15 is very forgiving to sharpen on a broader variety of stones (Not all professional sharpeners have, or will use diamond stones. Nor probably will you, starting out.), but still has quite good edge retention. Akifusa's in this steel are also not super delicate out of the box, and - whilst not delivered with a crazy sharp edge - do get crazy sharp at various grit levels fairly easily (They love high polishes - up to and over 1-micron/16,000 grit - but also deburr readily at 20-25 micron/600-800 grit, if you prefer a really toothy edge as many do for proteins.).
Out of all the cutlery steels/heat-treats of those steels I've tried, how Akifusa handles SRS-15 is up there with the best carbons or semi-stainless I've used. I think their grinds and profiles leave a bit to be desired, but the steel does want to get sharp, and holds it a reasonable time... So, whether you're sending it out, or trying to sharpen yourself, you've not got an uphill battle on your hands.
They're also not super flashy.
Hope this helps.
For your application (Slicing boneless proteins, only.) you probably don't need a gyuto, and I think your interest in PM steels makes sense for this application. Hot proteins can quickly degrade the edge of simple carbons like Shirogami #2, or even Aogami Super (AS will get you through slicing meat for one cookout with friends/family. White #2 will get you through a small meal for two.), and if you're going to ship a knife out to be sharpened, not having to do so often certainly doesn't hurt.
However, I would probably steer clear of HAP-40, or any similar steels that will require diamonds and more time/angle control to sharpen properly. At least at this stage in your learning curve. In my experience, SRS-15 is very forgiving to sharpen on a broader variety of stones (Not all professional sharpeners have, or will use diamond stones. Nor probably will you, starting out.), but still has quite good edge retention. Akifusa's in this steel are also not super delicate out of the box, and - whilst not delivered with a crazy sharp edge - do get crazy sharp at various grit levels fairly easily (They love high polishes - up to and over 1-micron/16,000 grit - but also deburr readily at 20-25 micron/600-800 grit, if you prefer a really toothy edge as many do for proteins.).
Out of all the cutlery steels/heat-treats of those steels I've tried, how Akifusa handles SRS-15 is up there with the best carbons or semi-stainless I've used. I think their grinds and profiles leave a bit to be desired, but the steel does want to get sharp, and holds it a reasonable time... So, whether you're sending it out, or trying to sharpen yourself, you've not got an uphill battle on your hands.
They're also not super flashy.
Hope this helps.
DitmasPork
Senior Member
Not to go too off base from your powder steel desire. But, since you’ve set a relatively high budget of $500, and still asking a lot of questions, and transitioning from Wustof—have you considered lowering your budget? Bearing in mind that you’ll probably want another knife not long after landing your first J-knife.
Below is a 240 Yoshimi Echizen, stainless clad super blue, comes with saya for $325—not the edge retention of powder, but plenty for a home cook, the remainder of the budget can get you an inexpensive petty/nakiri/or suji. Just sayin’ that $500 is a lot to blow on a first J-knife without knowing if you’ll jive with it, or what you value in J-knives.
Below is a 240 Yoshimi Echizen, stainless clad super blue, comes with saya for $325—not the edge retention of powder, but plenty for a home cook, the remainder of the budget can get you an inexpensive petty/nakiri/or suji. Just sayin’ that $500 is a lot to blow on a first J-knife without knowing if you’ll jive with it, or what you value in J-knives.
Tsourkan has some very reasonably priced Sujis in AEBL on his IG right now. Almost went for one this AM.
At that price range customs come into the picture. You 100% do not need to spend that to get a great knife, but if you are, might as well get something pretty special. I’m sure @MSicardCutlery or @Illyria would love to make you something as well!
All forum favorites that you can’t go wrong with.
At that price range customs come into the picture. You 100% do not need to spend that to get a great knife, but if you are, might as well get something pretty special. I’m sure @MSicardCutlery or @Illyria would love to make you something as well!
All forum favorites that you can’t go wrong with.
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Can the magnacut knives be sharpened on a ceramic whetstone?
It can be, just not very pleasant and time consuming. Diamond stone is much better.
I think it should be clear here Powdered steel is not single type of super edge retention steel, it is a technology. PM steel can be super wear resistant, it can also be super tough like 3V or Z-Tuff. Some PM actually have less edge retention than some conventional steel like the super tuff one mentioned before, tho the top of the edge retention chart is entirely populated by PM steel. MagnaCut and Zwear are also PM steels, they are on the more balanced side with both good edge retention and toughness.
I think this is fairly ridiculous. I have both steels and I’ve never observed them losing an edge that fast.
It can be. But I feel you get better results using a diamond stone, not plate, to get it sharp. Then play around with other stones to find an edge you like. I regularly use Venev diamond stones followed by using a Washita, BBW or Coticule, depending on what I'm intending to cut the most of.
Old Fashioned
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Yep. I just looked through their offerings and they are generally priced high. Some 2X from what you can get from other shops
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500 is the maximum that I’m willing to spend if the knife is worth it. I’d prefer to get one in the 2-3 hundred range. This will be my second J knife. The first one I purchased was a Yoshimi Kato Nakiri made from Aogami Super. I like cutting vegetables with it so I decided to get another good knife for proteins. I didn’t like having to oil the knife after I used it which is why I was going with a stainless steel. Then I recently found out that I don’t have to oil it so often, so the stainless steel wasn’t as important anymore. The more I learn on this forum the more questions I have. I eventually want to sharpen my own knives so I’m looking into the carbon steels or an easy to sharpen powder steel like Srs 15. I’m kind of leaning toward the Akifusa. I’m also looking at the buy/sell forum which has so many bargains. Unfortunately, I don’t know which brand is good. This is why I’m relying on the opinions of the experienced users on this forum. Thank you for all your help, I really appreciate it.
There are some gihei Hap-40 on BST. I don’t know this particular profile but they do a nice job on this steel. I have a little one and sharpen it with diamonds but I’ve used standard shapton glass stones which worked fine with the thin edge. The key is thin edge, and they are not heat treated as hard as the sukenari which everyone complains about. Gihei hap40 is nice stuff.
I also have an Akifusa SRS-15 and agree with comments from steampunk. Its a very nice steel but grind and profile could be improved. Might be great for a suji. Or you could call the 240 gyuto a suji.
There is also semi-stainless which actually has really nice properties and won’t rust but will discolor. Hap-40 is one PM example. A2 (SKD) is a more common conventional steel used by a few makers that is easy to sharpen.
I also have an Akifusa SRS-15 and agree with comments from steampunk. Its a very nice steel but grind and profile could be improved. Might be great for a suji. Or you could call the 240 gyuto a suji.
There is also semi-stainless which actually has really nice properties and won’t rust but will discolor. Hap-40 is one PM example. A2 (SKD) is a more common conventional steel used by a few makers that is easy to sharpen.
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I decided to get this 240mm SG2 Shibata Koutetsu gyuto with Saya on the buy/sell/trade forum. I chose this because it’s crazy sharp and I’m fascinated with sharp knives. The price was also too good to pass up with the Saya included. Thanks for all for your help.
I have the 180 Bunka version. You won’t be disappointed
Steampunk
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This has been my experience with these steels when cutting hot (Especially red) meats. Around less acidic ingredients edge retention is far better. Thinly slicing a large, rare beef roast, shortly after resting for example, you can literally feel the edge degrading as you cut. Just portioning a pair of freshly grilled steaks for a steak salad is enough for the edge on my 150 Masakage Yuki petty to get slippery. AS lasts notably longer, due to the carbides, but it quickly loses its shaving sharpness, and settles into a very toothy edge that keeps working. Nevertheless, at the end of portioning BBQ for a big cookout, the edge is definitely in need of a full sharpening; not just a touch-up.
Dulling from erosion/corrosion as a result of food acids (Rather than normal abrasive/plastic/impact wear.) does influence carbon steel edge life significantly, and I sometimes wonder if this isn't a factor in why different people can have such different experiences with carbon steel edge retention (Besides differences in sharpening, or what different people consider to be 'dull'.). The strength of the acid in the ingredient (Or other corrosives, like salt. Both will erode/corrode steel faster when heated.), the duration of the exposure (Time), and the alloy composition of the steel (Whether or not it contains anything that can either slow the corrosion, or it has carbides that won't erode.) are the controlling factors in edge retention when doing things like portioning hot meats, or making a big batch of salsa... It's not really the standard abrasive/plastic/impact wear modus, which most people evaluate edge retention with.
Hopefully this clarifies.
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