Recommendations for a high quality powdered steel gyuto or sujihiki

[ditomura]

Hello, I’m new to this and don’t know that much about knives. I would appreciate your help. I’m looking for a low maintenance, very sharp knife (laser). I tried sharpening with whetstones but I have no skills at that. I will have them sharpened by a professional when needed which is why I want a powdered steel, so I don’t have to do it too often. I’d rather pay for quality and function vs artistic value. If the knife looks too fancy, my wife will get suspicious about the cost and I don’t want to go there. I’m going to use this knife at home to cut raw and cooked boneless meats. I have a functional Classic Wusthof set but I would like to upgrade. It seems like having a razor sharp knife would make food prep more easy and enjoyable. Please advise. Thank you


LOCATION
What country are you in? United States


KNIFE TYPE
What type of knife are you interested in (e.g., chef’s knife, slicer, boning knife, utility knife, bread knife, paring knife, cleaver)?
Gyuto or sujihiki

Are you right or left handed?
Right handed

Are you interested in a Western handle (e.g., classic Wusthof handle) or Japanese handle?
Doesn’t matter, the cheaper one.

What length of knife (blade) are you interested in (in inches or millimeters)?

240mm
Do you require a stainless knife? (Yes or no)
Preferably


What is your absolute maximum budget for your knife?
$500

KNIFE USE
Do you primarily intend to use this knife at home or a professional environment?
Home


What are the main tasks you primarily intend to use the knife for (e.g., slicing vegetables, chopping vegetables, mincing vegetables, slicing meats, cutting down poultry, breaking poultry bones, filleting fish, trimming meats, etc.)? (Please identify as many tasks as you would like.)
Cutting boneless beef, chicken, pork and fish. I bought a Nakiri for vegetables.


What knife, if any, are you replacing?
Wusthof classic set

Do you have a particular grip that you primarily use? (Please click on this LINK for the common types of grips.)
Pinch grip

What cutting motions do you primarily use? (Please click on this LINK for types of cutting motions and identify the two or three most common cutting motions, in order of most used to least used.)
1. Push slice
2. Sawing slice
3. Rocking chop

What improvements do you want from your current knife? If you are not replacing a knife, please identify as many characteristics identified below in parentheses that you would like this knife to have.)

Better aesthetics-don’t matter


Comfort- I’ll adapt


Ease of Use and Care- I’d prefer a knife with low maintenance. Wash, dry and put in a knife rack.


Edge Retention (i.e., length of time you want the edge to last without sharpening)? Longer the better, but I don’t like ceramic knives.


KNIFE MAINTENANCE
Do you use a bamboo, wood, rubber, or synthetic cutting board? A Hasegawa soft rubber board and a pressed wood Epicurean board.

Do you sharpen your own knives? (Yes or no.) Yes, but I’m not very good. I’ll have them sharpened by a pro until I get better at it.

If not, are you interested in learning how to sharpen your knives?

Are you interested in purchasing sharpening products for your knives? (Yes or no.)
No

SPECIAL REQUESTS/COMMENTS

 

[JASinIL2006]

Kei Kobayashi SG2 240 mm gyuto. Lasery as hell.

 

[blokey]

Gesshin Kagero, Akifusa PM, Tsunehisa SRS, all basically same knife tho.
https://tokushuknife.com/products/i...licer-rc-handle-4?_pos=6&_sid=3ad8e171f&_ss=rhttps://www.japaneseknifeimports.co...kagero/products/gesshin-kagero-240mm-wa-gyutohttps://tokushuknife.com/products/t...andle-240mm-gyuto?_pos=7&_sid=3ad8e171f&_ss=r
BTW laser does not guarantee sharpness, sharpness is more of a function of edge geometry.

 

[Qapla']

What do you think of this?

https://www.echefknife.com/collecti...black-pakkawood-handle?variant=40192471335099

 

[blokey]

What do you think of this?

https://www.echefknife.com/collecti...black-pakkawood-handle?variant=40192471335099

I believe this is also a Hokiyama knife as the 3 above.

 

[jacobwilder5]

Takamura r2, ryusen blazen, shibata r2, Kei kobayashi sg2 could all fit the bill. All powdered steel and all lasery

 

[Benuser]

What makes you conclude you're lacking the skills for stone sharpening? No very rare skills are being required. There is a learning curve, sure, but the basics aren't that complicated. Farmers have always maintained their scythes. Until the thirties most men maintained their razors.
As you now are getting interested in better knives your standards will change as well. You will have to think about maintenance between the sharpenings.
I would give it a new try, and start with a thin, carbon steel knife to get the basics. A neglected, fat soft stainless as a Wüsthof is probably the worst to start with.

 

[ditomura]

Hello, I’m new to this and don’t know that much about knives. I would appreciate your help. I’m looking for a low maintenance, very sharp knife (laser). I tried sharpening with whetstones but I have no skills at that. I will have them sharpened by a professional when needed which is why I want a powdered steel, so I don’t have to do it too often. I’d rather pay for quality and function vs artistic value. If the knife looks too fancy, my wife will get suspicious about the cost and I don’t want to go there. I’m going to use this knife at home to cut raw and cooked boneless meats. I have a functional Classic Wusthof set but I would like to upgrade. It seems like having a razor sharp knife would make food prep more easy and enjoyable. Please advise. Thank you


LOCATION
What country are you in? United States


KNIFE TYPE
What type of knife are you interested in (e.g., chef’s knife, slicer, boning knife, utility knife, bread knife, paring knife, cleaver)?
Gyuto or sujihiki

Are you right or left handed?
Right handed

Are you interested in a Western handle (e.g., classic Wusthof handle) or Japanese handle?
Doesn’t matter, the cheaper one.

What length of knife (blade) are you interested in (in inches or millimeters)?

240mm
Do you require a stainless knife? (Yes or no)
Preferably


What is your absolute maximum budget for your knife?
$500

KNIFE USE
Do you primarily intend to use this knife at home or a professional environment?
Home


What are the main tasks you primarily intend to use the knife for (e.g., slicing vegetables, chopping vegetables, mincing vegetables, slicing meats, cutting down poultry, breaking poultry bones, filleting fish, trimming meats, etc.)? (Please identify as many tasks as you would like.)
Cutting boneless beef, chicken, pork and fish. I bought a Nakiri for vegetables.


What knife, if any, are you replacing?
Wusthof classic set

Do you have a particular grip that you primarily use? (Please click on this LINK for the common types of grips.)
Pinch grip

What cutting motions do you primarily use? (Please click on this LINK for types of cutting motions and identify the two or three most common cutting motions, in order of most used to least used.)
1. Push slice
2. Sawing slice
3. Rocking chop

What improvements do you want from your current knife? If you are not replacing a knife, please identify as many characteristics identified below in parentheses that you would like this knife to have.)

Better aesthetics-don’t matter


Comfort- I’ll adapt


Ease of Use and Care- I’d prefer a knife with low maintenance. Wash, dry and put in a knife rack.


Edge Retention (i.e., length of time you want the edge to last without sharpening)? Longer the better, but I don’t like ceramic knives.


KNIFE MAINTENANCE
Do you use a bamboo, wood, rubber, or synthetic cutting board? A Hasegawa soft rubber board and a pressed wood Epicurean board.

Do you sharpen your own knives? (Yes or no.) Yes, but I’m not very good. I’ll have them sharpened by a pro until I get better at it.

If not, are you interested in learning how to sharpen your knives?

Are you interested in purchasing sharpening products for your knives? (Yes or no.)
No

SPECIAL REQUESTS/COMMENTS

Thanks for the recommendations, they all look tempting. I’ll probably get the one that I can find on sale. The Kei Kobayashi is on sale at Hocho knife and the Yoshihiro is also on sale. I need to do more research on these knives.

 

[ditomura]

What makes you conclude you're lacking the skills for stone sharpening? No very rare skills are being required. There is a learning curve, sure, but the basics aren't that complicated. Farmers have always maintained their scythes. Until the thirties most men maintained their razors.
As you now are getting interested in better knives your standards will change as well. You will have to think about maintenance between the sharpenings.
I would give it a new try, and start with a thin, carbon steel knife to get the basics. A neglected, fat soft stainless as a Wüsthof is probably the worst to start with.

I ended up slicing my finger before I finished. Kind of stupid but I left my finger on the whetstone and knife so that I could feel the angle while sharpening. I won’t do that again. Been about 2 weeks and my finger is still healing. Since I already invested in the whetstones, strop and sink bridge, I will try again after my finger heals. Until I get better, I’m going to have it sharpened by a pro because I don’t want to ruin an expensive knife. I like your suggestion of picking up a cheap carbon knife to practice on. I will do that. Thank you.

 

[ditomura]

Gesshin Kagero, Akifusa PM, Tsunehisa SRS, all basically same knife tho.
https://tokushuknife.com/products/i...licer-rc-handle-4?_pos=6&_sid=3ad8e171f&_ss=rhttps://www.japaneseknifeimports.co...kagero/products/gesshin-kagero-240mm-wa-gyutohttps://tokushuknife.com/products/t...andle-240mm-gyuto?_pos=7&_sid=3ad8e171f&_ss=r
BTW laser does not guarantee sharpness, sharpness is more of a function of edge geometry.

I didn’t know that, what type of edge geometry should I look for for a consistent sharpness?

 

[ditomura]

Starting this Monday May 15th knifewear.com is having their garage sale which is supposedly their biggest sale of the year. I’ll be on the lookout for one of these knives.

 

[Benuser]

I didn’t know that, what type of edge geometry should I look for for a consistent sharpness?

I would aim for thinneth behind the edge, and micro-convexed bevels. Not to be expected from any factory edge, but a good retailer offers a first stone sharpening. Anyway a good idea, as factory edges often are weak.

 

[rickbern]

What makes you conclude you're lacking the skills for stone sharpening? No very rare skills are being required. There is a learning curve, sure, but the basics aren't that complicated. Farmers have always maintained their scythes. Until the thirties most men maintained their razors.
As you now are getting interested in better knives your standards will change as well. You will have to think about maintenance between the sharpenings.
I would give it a new try, and start with a thin, carbon steel knife to get the basics. A neglected, fat soft stainless as a Wüsthof is probably the worst to start with.

Just wanted to second Ben’s point. It’s also worthwhile to note that a simple carbon with stainless cladding will be much easier to learn to sharpen on than a powdered steel knife.

The only way you’ll ever have sharp knives for the rest of your life is to learn how to sharpen them

As far as getting your fingertips cut, look at my avatar. Been there, done that and have the band aid collection to prove it!

Good luck

 

[HumbleHomeCook]

I too will echo @Benuser and encourage you to get something in shirogami and stick with sharpening. The folks here will always help.

Starting this Monday May 15th knifewear.com is having their garage sale which is supposedly their biggest sale of the year. I’ll be on the lookout for one of these knives.

Knifewear's garage sale is misleading. They generally don't really offer much for savings, it is mostly rarer and harder to find stuff. They are also, often, overpriced to begin with.

All that said, to answer your question directly, I'd get this one if I had your parameters:

https://www.epicedge.com/shopexd.asp?id=93727&bc=no

 

[DitmasPork]

Gesshin Kagero, Akifusa PM, Tsunehisa SRS, all basically same knife tho.
https://tokushuknife.com/products/i...licer-rc-handle-4?_pos=6&_sid=3ad8e171f&_ss=rhttps://www.japaneseknifeimports.co...kagero/products/gesshin-kagero-240mm-wa-gyutohttps://tokushuknife.com/products/t...andle-240mm-gyuto?_pos=7&_sid=3ad8e171f&_ss=r
BTW laser does not guarantee sharpness, sharpness is more of a function of edge geometry.

I used to have a 240 Kagero, liked it a lot.

 

[Heckel7302]

Powdered steel laser? What about this Shibata 240.

https://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/...ges-gihei-shibata-koutetsu.64933/#post-993647
Looks in excellent condition. Price is good. Doesn't get much lasery. If you are ok with a k-tip, I think an excellent choice.

 

[DitmasPork]

Hello, I’m new to this and don’t know that much about knives. I would appreciate your help. I’m looking for a low maintenance, very sharp knife (laser). I tried sharpening with whetstones but I have no skills at that. I will have them sharpened by a professional when needed which is why I want a powdered steel, so I don’t have to do it too often. I’d rather pay for quality and function vs artistic value. If the knife looks too fancy, my wife will get suspicious about the cost and I don’t want to go there. I’m going to use this knife at home to cut raw and cooked boneless meats. I have a functional Classic Wusthof set but I would like to upgrade. It seems like having a razor sharp knife would make food prep more easy and enjoyable. Please advise. Thank you


LOCATION
What country are you in? United States


KNIFE TYPE
What type of knife are you interested in (e.g., chef’s knife, slicer, boning knife, utility knife, bread knife, paring knife, cleaver)?
Gyuto or sujihiki

Are you right or left handed?
Right handed

Are you interested in a Western handle (e.g., classic Wusthof handle) or Japanese handle?
Doesn’t matter, the cheaper one.

What length of knife (blade) are you interested in (in inches or millimeters)?

240mm
Do you require a stainless knife? (Yes or no)
Preferably


What is your absolute maximum budget for your knife?
$500

KNIFE USE
Do you primarily intend to use this knife at home or a professional environment?
Home


What are the main tasks you primarily intend to use the knife for (e.g., slicing vegetables, chopping vegetables, mincing vegetables, slicing meats, cutting down poultry, breaking poultry bones, filleting fish, trimming meats, etc.)? (Please identify as many tasks as you would like.)
Cutting boneless beef, chicken, pork and fish. I bought a Nakiri for vegetables.


What knife, if any, are you replacing?
Wusthof classic set

Do you have a particular grip that you primarily use? (Please click on this LINK for the common types of grips.)
Pinch grip

What cutting motions do you primarily use? (Please click on this LINK for types of cutting motions and identify the two or three most common cutting motions, in order of most used to least used.)
1. Push slice
2. Sawing slice
3. Rocking chop

What improvements do you want from your current knife? If you are not replacing a knife, please identify as many characteristics identified below in parentheses that you would like this knife to have.)

Better aesthetics-don’t matter


Comfort- I’ll adapt


Ease of Use and Care- I’d prefer a knife with low maintenance. Wash, dry and put in a knife rack.


Edge Retention (i.e., length of time you want the edge to last without sharpening)? Longer the better, but I don’t like ceramic knives.


KNIFE MAINTENANCE
Do you use a bamboo, wood, rubber, or synthetic cutting board? A Hasegawa soft rubber board and a pressed wood Epicurean board.

Do you sharpen your own knives? (Yes or no.) Yes, but I’m not very good. I’ll have them sharpened by a pro until I get better at it.

If not, are you interested in learning how to sharpen your knives?

Are you interested in purchasing sharpening products for your knives? (Yes or no.)
No

SPECIAL REQUESTS/COMMENTS

Just outta curiosity—pardon me if you've answered this earlier in the thread. Why do you want a powdered steel knife? Although I've had very good powdered steel gyuto—it's probably one of my least favored steel types. Sure, the edge retention can be very long, but all knives eventually get dull. Powdered steel is not the easiest to sharpen, can be brittle and chip if reckless with cutting technique. For a home cook, there're some carbons (blue, etc.) with long lasting edges you may want to consider. Also, hand sharpening ain't rocket science, relatively easy to get the hang of with practice. Beyond that—hand sharpening isn't a requirement for using J-knives—there're loads of talented sharpeners out there that you can send your knife to to be sharpened. If better aesthetics don't matter, then you're in a good mindset to try your hand at sharpening—knives are just tools, they don't mind being scratched, scuffed, dinged—I've ugly-fied numerous knives chasing sharpness.

 

[HSC /// Knives]

Z wear for the win!

 

[MSicardCutlery]

Z wear for the win!

Great steel, but IMO the amount of grinding it takes compensates for the price difference between it and MagnaCut. It's not that far away from M4 in that respect I think. Though, it will be easier to sharpen on conventional stones than either of those.

 

[ditomura]

Just outta curiosity—pardon me if you've answered this earlier in the thread. Why do you want a powdered steel knife? Although I've had very good powdered steel gyuto—it's probably one of my least favored steel types. Sure, the edge retention can be very long, but all knives eventually get dull. Powdered steel is not the easiest to sharpen, can be brittle and chip if reckless with cutting technique. For a home cook, there're some carbons (blue, etc.) with long lasting edges you may want to consider. Also, hand sharpening ain't rocket science, relatively easy to get the hang of with practice. Beyond that—hand sharpening isn't a requirement for using J-knives—there're loads of talented sharpeners out there that you can send your knife to to be sharpened. If better aesthetics don't matter, then you're in a good mindset to try your hand at sharpening—knives are just tools, they don't mind being scratched, scuffed, dinged—I've ugly-fied numerous knives chasing sharpness.

I wanted a powdered steel mainly for the edge retention and low maintenance. I read that you should oil carbon steel knives after use to prevent it from rusting. I probably won’t do that and I don’t want rusty knives. I will dry my knives immediately after use and put them away. I’m open to any steel. Which would you recommend that doesn’t need to be constantly oiled and has a sharp edge? A knife that a novice can sharpen would be great. Thank you

 

[btbyrd]

Stainless clad carbons are easy to maintain. Once an initial patina forms along the edge, they won't rust in ordinary use. I only ever need to oil mine if I'm going to store them for a long time. I used to stress about reactive steel before I used one for a while. I've owned many and never run into any problems. My wife, who is not a knife person, likes uses them on a daily basis and she doesn't have problems. You just need to make sure the knife is dried thoroughly when you're done with it. I'm a fan of blue steel (aogami 1 and 2 and aogami super) because they're relatively simple steels that take an edge very easily but offer some improved corrosion resistance over white steel (shirogami 1 or 2) which is basically just iron and carbon. Learning to sharpen on any of these steels will be much easier than trying to learn with stainless, let alone a powdered steel one. Those aren't necessarily hard to sharpen, but they're not great to learn on. Sharpening low alloyed carbon steels is much more rewarding, both in terms of immediate results and in terms of how rapidly you develop your sharpening skills.

 

[HumbleHomeCook]

I wanted a powdered steel mainly for the edge retention and low maintenance. I read that you should oil carbon steel knives after use to prevent it from rusting. I probably won’t do that and I don’t want rusty knives. I will dry my knives immediately after use and put them away. I’m open to any steel. Which would you recommend that doesn’t need to be constantly oiled and has a sharp edge? A knife that a novice can sharpen would be great. Thank you

Unless you live in a very humid environment, I wouldn't stress the oiling the blade thing. I have a ton of mono and iron clad carbon knives and never worry about that stuff. On some examples the cladding can be more reactive than others but even that is generally no big deal. I believe way too much is made about the "fragility" of carbon on the internet and further perpetuated by many vendors. Knifewear loves to push carbon fear.

 

[btbyrd]

I'll say that if you're set on a PM suji, there are two nice ones sitting on BST right now made by Sukenari. A 270mm SG2 (same as R2) and a 240mm HAP40 k-tip. The SG2 270mm is $265 and the 240mm HAP40 is $250 or best offer. Sukenaris run a little short, so the 270 will be more like 262 and the 240 more like 232. But either or those would be pretty badass, and you'd still have another $250 to get a 240mm gyuto or whatever.

 

[ditomura]

I'll say that if you're set on a PM suji, there are two nice ones sitting on BST right now made by Sukenari. A 270mm SG2 (same as R2) and a 240mm HAP40 k-tip. The SG2 270mm is $265 and the 240mm HAP40 is $250 or best offer. Sukenaris run a little short, so the 270 will be more like 262 and the 240 more like 232. But either or those would be pretty badass, and you'd still have another $250 to get a 240mm gyuto or whatever.

Thank you, I tried to buy the hap40 sujihiki last week but I got no reply from the seller. That was such a good deal. After learning that carbon steel isn’t as rust prone as I thought, I want to look into the aogami super knives also.

 

[M1k3]

Z wear for the win!

Agreed! Pretty easy to sharpen, if you're experienced. Edge lasts a long time. The edge lasted me 5 weeks in daily use in a restaurant. So that's like 6+ months for a home user. Pretty much stainless in use.

 

[ditomura]

Thank you everybody for your replies. I just submitted a review on chefknivesjapan.com and they gave me a 10% off coupon which even works on things that are on sale. I think their prices are fair. I’m not sure if this coupon will work for everybody but this is the code BTJKSreview.

 

[DitmasPork]

Unless you live in a very humid environment, I wouldn't stress the oiling the blade thing. I have a ton of mono and iron clad carbon knives and never worry about that stuff. On some examples the cladding can be more reactive than others but even that is generally no big deal. I believe way too much is made about the "fragility" of carbon on the internet and further perpetuated by many vendors. Knifewear loves to push carbon fear.

90% of my knives are carbon, probably 80% of which have never been oiled.

 

[ditomura]

Great steel, but IMO the amount of grinding it takes compensates for the price difference between it and MagnaCut. It's not that far away from M4 in that respect I think. Though, it will be easier to sharpen on conventional stones than either of those.

How does z wear and magna cut compare to aogami super and the powder steels? When I go to the online knife shops and I click on the steel types, I’ve never seen magma cut or z wear as an option. Do they have a different name that they go by?

 

[HumbleHomeCook]

How does z wear and magna cut compare to aogami super and the powder steels? When I go to the online knife shops and I click on the steel types, I’ve never seen magma cut or z wear as an option. Do they have a different name that they go by?

You won't find those on typical vendor sites. Those steels are mostly in the custom realm.

Ginsan (Silver 3, G3) is a stainless that sharpens much like the simple carbons and it is readily found. AEB-L is better but not as common in vendor shops.

I'd encourage you to abuse the forum search function. Tons of great information that may help steer your questions or decisions.

 

[HSC /// Knives]

Z wear and MagnaCut are both powder metallurgy steels. You can find the crucible and Zapp datasheets online