WTS Red Flags on BST

[daveb]

We seem to be having an uptick on shady sellers, thot I would list a couple red flags, despite them being obvious, that newer members should / could watch for.

Pls add to the list with your own experiences.


Pay Pay Friends and Family. It's against the rules for the buyer to require it. (And should be reported) Sure it saves them 3%, they may have stories about PP being an evil corporation, yada, yada. But it provides no, zero, nada, protection for the buyer should things go south. If a seller insists on F/F or no knife, there likely is no knife to begin with. This is the complaint the mods see the most of. I'm sorry but if you need the knife bad enough to take that risk then consider it tuition in the college of life.

Response to WTB. 2nd most common complaint. Potential buyer wants a knife and posts a WTB post. A seller, usually unknown on the forum, responds with exactly the knife they're looking for. And soon the buyer has no money and no knife. PP G&S will provide some level of protection but it's (I've been told) a PIA to collect on. Note that known members will respond to these threads as well - give them a look for post count, prior transactions, etc.

Some buyers will cause headaches as well. If I'm selling and I'm asked to provide 43 pics and 3 videos of knife in use, I'll likely pass on the buyer. Had a couple come back that weren't perfect but as represented - not worth the hassle.

 

[chiffonodd]

tuition in the college of life.

 

[Just a DK]

This is literally why I will never WTB for my unicorns...

In the words of Lt Daniels. "Well I, for one, am a patient ************."

 

[reisen]

If a buyer insists on F/F or no knife, there likely is no knife to begin with.

Do you mean seller here?

 

[Corradobrit1]

Do you mean seller here?

I think there are a couple of buyer for seller substitutions in the post. But the message is clear. No Venmo, Zelle or unsecured purchases. PP G&S only unless you know the seller and they are regularly active on the forum with a reliable history as a seller. Use a credit card as it is much easier to deal with the CC company vs PP when it comes to disputes (at least in my experience). Above all trust your gut. It's rarely wrong.

Edit: Venmo seems to have to have some buyer protections.

 

[JPAU]

Have experienced both lately, sadly. Reported one to Dave (didn’t even tell you some of the details as I didn’t know whether it was worth reporting dodgy members to anyone). Others I’ve left undisclosed because I don’t really know who to mention it to. Not to complain or seek reparations but to ensure that they are not able to predate and participate in (ie benefit from) the community. New to the forum and fortunately some losses have been mitigated. Learned some lessons.

Also had some really wonderful interactions. Like any marketplace, it’s a mix of honest and dishonest participants. Glad for the honest, helpful and friendly ones. You’re a wonderful bunch.

 

[Rangen]

Another light red flag, from what I've seen, is grail knives -- the knife of the moment, or one that there is tons of excitement about. Scammers always want to instill a sense of urgency, and what could be more urgent than "I must say yes to this immediately or I will surely miss out on this opportunity."

I've snagged a couple of these sorts of things on BST, acting very quickly, but in all cases it was a "yeah, I've seen that guy on the threads" situation. I've passed up some things I'd have loved to grab, because I just couldn't convince myself that they were definitely real. I'm not good at spotting any but the most obvious Photoshops, as some here are, but I'm not bad at judging the general vibes of a post.

 

[daveb]

Do you mean seller here?

Thanks. Corrected.

 

[Jovidah]

Perhaps worth mentioning that 'ads from older accounts with providence' don't really guarantee anything as we've seen older accounts getting hacked in the past.

Sadly with developments in AI stuff like 'posting a picture of the knife with a date' is becoming utterly trivial to fake.

 

[noj]

I experienced a seller who didn't mention the payment mechanism/company in the listing. When I made an offer. they insisted on not payal. By the time I researched the payment they wanted, they had sold it to someone else. Not the end of the world. I would prefer a little more transparency from sellers in the original BST if they know they only accept something which isn't paypal (or F&F).

When it came to actual purchases made, I haven't had any issues, so this isn't directed at you.

 

[HumbleHomeCook]

Newer members making simple and prolific post replies just to get their fifty post count limit.

 

[cholula69]

Great advice. I recently had a similar experience where a seller insisted on payment with f&f through PayPal. I didn’t do that but the seller still ghosted me. I filed a complaint with PayPal and got a full refund.

 

[Barmoley]

I experienced a seller who didn't mention the payment mechanism/company in the listing. When I made an offer. they insisted on not payal. By the time I researched the payment they wanted, they had sold it to someone else. Not the end of the world. I would prefer a little more transparency from sellers in the original BST if they know they only accept something which isn't paypal (or F&F).

When it came to actual purchases made, I haven't had any issues, so this isn't directed at you.

This brings up a good question. Is PayPal the only allowed way to pay? I understand if PayPal is used then the policy is PayPal G&S since that is a PayPal rule. If other methods are allowed then there is no protection for the buyer in these cases and then how is it different from PayPal F&F, besides breaking PayPal rules of course. Many non US members prefer Wise for example due to much lower foreign exchange fees.

 

[thebradleycrew]

Of note, I've successfully received a refund on purchased goods via Venmo. I received the refund when the (purported) Seller could not prove shipment, and ultimately delivery. So there is some (proven) purchaser protection in Venmo too.

 

[thebradleycrew]

This brings up a good question. Is PayPal the only allowed way to pay? I understand if PayPal is used then the policy is PayPal G&S since that is a PayPal rule. If other methods are allowed then there is no protection for the buyer in these cases and then how is it different from PayPal F&F, besides breaking PayPal rules of course. Many non US members prefer Wise for example due to much lower foreign exchange fees.

And, I believe, some countries don't have/allow PayPal if I am not mistaken. So in some cases, PP isn't even an option.

 

[Corradobrit1]

Of note, I've successfully received a refund on purchased goods via Venmo. I received the refund when the (purported) Seller could not prove shipment, and ultimately delivery. So there is some (proven) purchaser protection in Venmo too.

I assume you paid with funds from a credit card. That would give you buyer protection. The key here is use a credit card in which case Venmo is also safe.

As general information it is also possible to pay via PP giving the impression it's F&F. Just use the PP payment calculator and determine the precise amount X+fees needed to pay the seller X. They see X in their account and you just cover the fee from your end. Done this multiple times buying through Ebay Classifieds. Luckily all transactions went smoothly but it was good to know I was protected in case things went south.

 

[thebradleycrew]

I assume you paid with funds from a credit card. That would give you buyer protection.

Actually, no. Had "cash" in my Venmo account. So was directly in Venmo having been received from a previous transaction. Credit card company never got involved in any way.

 

[Barmoley]

Of note, I've successfully received a refund on purchased goods via Venmo. I received the refund when the (purported) Seller could not prove shipment, and ultimately delivery. So there is some (proven) purchaser protection in Venmo too.

Venmo is owned by PayPal and also has buyer protection. Many countries don't allow PayPal F&F.

 

[Corradobrit1]

Venmo is owned by PayPal and also has buyer protection.

Was not aware of that piece of info.

 

[daveb]

This brings up a good question. Is PayPal the only allowed way to pay?

What happens in PMs stays in PMs. If I was buying a knife from you (or other known entity) I might offer $20ish less to send f/f. You would get your asking, I would get knife for a few bucks less. (Don't tell PP I said that).

 

[Barmoley]

What happens in PMs stays in PMs. If I was buying a knife from you (or other known entity) I might offer $20ish less to send f/f. You would get your asking, I would get knife for a few bucks less. (Don't tell PP I said that).

OK, that was my assumption, what you are saying is that if the seller asks for F&F even in PMs then that should be reported. Sellers should also note that they should include PP fee in their asking price to avoid confusion and buyers should expect to pay for their protection.

 

[NotAddictedYet]

OK, that was my assumption, what you are saying is that if the seller asks for F&F even in PMs then that should be reported. Sellers should also note that they should include PP fee in their asking price to avoid confusion and buyers should expect to pay for their protection.

I thought that @daveb is saying, if the seller is insisting on PP F&F exclusively as the form of payment, even in PMs, that should be reported. Not sure if that's correct.

 

[NotAddictedYet]

My 2 cents: if a knife seems too good to be true, it probably is. Be cautious when that occurs. Better to miss out than be without the knife and money.

Scam listing often take knife photos from older KKF listings so google image search against KKF may turn up the listing. Sometimes they don't even change the words of the listing.

 

[Corradobrit1]

It seems the greatest opportunities for the scammer are when they have control of a Zombie account. The unsuspecting buyer sees when they joined and if the knife is a so called 'unicorn' or flavour of the month, will jump to secure the 'deal', assuming the seller is established on the forum. It might be good housekeeping to retire any accounts that have been inactive for say 3 years.

 

[Barmoley]

It seems the greatest opportunities for the scammer are when they have control of a Zombie account. The unsuspecting buyer sees when they joined and if the knife is a so called 'unicorn' or flavour of the month, will jump to secure the 'deal', assuming the seller is established on the forum. It might be good housekeeping to retire any accounts that have been inactive for say 3 years.

Or at least suspend them. This is a red flag if someone hasn't posted in years and then starts selling. Can be real, but caution is warranted.

I am still missing a difference between someone requesting paypal ff only vs wise, zelle, money order, etc. In theory anyone requesting anything other than PayPal g&s or venmo with purchase protection is asking for the same and should be reported?

 

[OkayMode]

I am still missing a difference between someone requesting paypal ff only vs wise, zelle, money order, etc. In theory anyone requesting anything other than PayPal g&s or venmo with purchase protection is asking for the same and should be reported?

Same. Can we please get a clear position on whether requesting payment via Wise (for example) is allowed or not?

 

[Corradobrit1]

Same. Can we please get a clear position on whether requesting payment via Wise (for example) is allowed or not?

Only in DM. Not in the listing. Caveat Emptor

 

[labor of love]

“What happens in the PMs stays in the PMs” is a good code to live by.
However, if someone insists on F&F or some other form of unprotected payment or the deal is off in a PM I’m definitely reporting them.
BTW I always send F&F when buying from a member that’s a regular poster, but that’s on me and I’m okay with that and am ok taking on the risk associated with it.

 

[Rodin326]

We seem to be having an uptick on shady sellers, thot I would list a couple red flags, despite them being obvious, that newer members should / could watch for.

Pls add to the list with your own experiences.


Pay Pay Friends and Family. It's against the rules for the buyer to ask for it. (And should be reported) Sure it saves them 3%, they may have stories about PP being an evil corporation, yada, yada. But it provides no, zero, nada, protection for the buyer should things go south. If a seller insists on F/F or no knife, there likely is no knife to begin with. This is the complaint the mods see the most of. I'm sorry but if you need the knife bad enough to take that risk then consider it tuition in the college of life.

Response to WTB. 2nd most common complaint. Potential buyer wants a knife and posts a WTB post. A seller, usually unknown on the forum, responds with exactly the knife they're looking for. And soon the buyer has no money and no knife. PP G&S will provide some level of protection but it's (I've been told) a PIA to collect on. Note that known members will respond to these threads as well - give them a look for post count, prior transactions, etc.

Some buyers will cause headaches as well. If I'm selling and I'm asked to provide 43 pics and 3 videos of knife in use, I'll likely pass on the buyer. Had a couple come back that weren't perfect but as represented - not worth the hassle.

I had someone offer to buy F&F or Zelle right off the bat the other day. It seemed immediately fishy but I declined regardless.

 

[AT5760]

If the seller is insisting on something besides PP G&S in DMs, that’s a red flag to me.

I’ve done F&F and Venmo for purchases before. It’s a risk, but it was with members that I felt I could trust.