Blasphemy. W2 is garbage steel, I only use W2.W2 is great but I prefer W2
Blasphemy. W2 is garbage steel, I only use W2.W2 is great but I prefer W2
It's true everyone acts like they invented that specific steel and it's their baby, only Larrin can act like thatEveryone hates everyone else’s favorite steel has been the only consistent position on this thread.
Only if Larrin runs it 64.5 HRCIt's true everyone acts like they invented that specific steel and it's their baby, only Larrin can act like that![]()
I have moved onOnly if Larrin runs it 64.5 HRC![]()
darn we don't need this kind of talk around here. Open drawer -> pick knife -> close drawer. No counting allowed.Just put the dull knife away for a month and use one of your other 846 knives.
I think, if makers put nickel shims into play on their san mai, it would be the same there.To this point @Blank Blades, I have two custom Mizuno honyakis. Ordered from Jun, a 240 and 270. In my first one, the 240, I ordered (demanded?) Blue 2 and I like it, but it isn't perfect. Talking with him about it when ordering the 270, he told me that unquestionably believes his White 3 honyaki offers the best overall performance in any of his knives, and said he only uses that when given the option by the client as it gets similar performance but is much more forgiving to the end user and easier to work on. My experience with his knives only corroborates that, though this I think is limited to honyaki conversations.
Thank you so much for using a very high number.Just put the dull knife away for a month and use one of your other 846 knives.
Wolfram special is basically v-toku1.https://zknives.com/knives/steels/s...mi 1,26c3,52100,W2&ni=587,,813,118&hrn=1&gm=0
https://zknives.com/knives/steels/steelgraph.php?nm=Shirogami 2,1095,Shiro2&ni=,360,578&hrn=1&gm=0
https://zknives.com/knives/steels/s... 2,V-Toku2,1.2442&ni=,597,637,5200&hrn=1&gm=0
https://zknives.com/knives/steels/s...al,A-Type,SLD8&ni=,,3519,2545,1425&hrn=1&gm=0
I'm sure there's more.
I think, if makers put nickel shims into play on their san mai, it would be the same there.
That said without nickel shims, its going to depend on the maker. Contrary to what you might hear. I actually think, if they used white 1, a nice hot forge weld, and a bit of forging could benefit the end knife. Since it could stand to loose a good bit of carbon, to end up in a good place for overall properties.
white 2, i think it might be easier to ruin because of carbon loss to the cladding. And white 3, certain would take a lot of skill to do right in san mai.
Juha Perttula sells some really nice knives in 80CrV2, got a puukko and folder, quite impressed. (Larrin also did a video on him, that's how I found his stuff)Wolfram special is basically v-toku1.
I only made one knife in it, but it was wrought iron clad, and it got a delam, so i just kept it for myself.
But the steel is
Anyway you people need to forget these japanese steels.
Take the redpill, become based. And use 80crv2
(Edited: my apologies, i guess i somehow combined 2 posts)
Nope.Thank you so much for using a very high number.
The highee carbon, with no additional alloying. Means it will have the formation of plate martensite very likely. And that leads to a dramatic reduction of toughness (check larrins toughness testing for 1095 or o1, vs 1084, or 80crv2) but also, like was mentioned, they will have more cementite also, and higher carbide volume means lower toughness also, but you get very little bang for your buck with plain cementite.Why exactly would white 3 with it's lesser carbon and alloying elements make for better honyaki/monosteel? Just the fact that it will have a finer grain structure and be tougher?
They are compositionally similar but based on micrographs of V-Toku 2 and Wolfram Special likely quite microstructurally different.Wolfram special is basically v-toku1.
I only made one knife in it, but it was wrought iron clad, and it got a delam, so i just kept it for myself.
But the steel is
Anyway you people need to forget these japanese steels.
Take the redpill, become based. And use 80crv2
(Edited: my apologies, i guess i somehow combined 2 posts)
Did you ever publish the WS micrograph?They are compositionally similar but based on micrographs of V-Toku 2 and Wolfram Special likely quite microstructurally different.
I did publish a micrograph in my Steel Saturday on Wolfram Special, but after reading this I just realized I forgot to update the public article on my Patreon.Did you ever publish the WS micrograph?
Even if it is. Just in my personal use so far. I actually quite like it.They are compositionally similar but based on micrographs of V-Toku 2 and Wolfram Special likely quite microstructurally different.
They are compositionally similar but based on micrographs of V-Toku 2 and Wolfram Special likely quite microstructurally different.
Also. Are there any available micrographs for vtoku-1?They are compositionally similar but based on micrographs of V-Toku 2 and Wolfram Special likely quite microstructurally different.
There are not. But the structures found in Wolfram Special or really a function of its processing not composition. There are micrographs of 1.2442, which is a similar steel, that look better.Also. Are there any available micrographs for vtoku-1?
Yeah. Its unfortunate that it could have potentially have been done better.There are not. But the structures found in Wolfram Special or really a function of its processing not composition. There are micrographs of 1.2442, which is a similar steel, that look better.
@Troopah_Knives I think you've mentioned that Shiro 3 makes for an interesting honyaki choice, any chance you can elaborate on that a bit (or point to where you already have?)Why exactly would white 3 with it's lesser carbon and alloying elements make for better honyaki/monosteel? Just the fact that it will have a finer grain structure and be tougher?
I am not sure I have mentioned that here anywhere, could be in a Steel Saturday or something. But I certainly don't mind explaining my reasoning.@Troopah_Knives I think you've mentioned that Shiro 3 makes for an interesting honyaki choice, any chance you can elaborate on that a bit (or point to where you already have?)
I am not sure I have mentioned that here anywhere, could be in a Steel Saturday or something. But I certainly don't mind explaining my reasoning.
Shiro 3 is identical to Shiro 2 and 1 except for having a carbon content of 0.8-0.9%. When you austenitize (heat) these steels before quenching them you are dissolving cementite and dumping carbon into the austenite. Since their compositions are otherwise identical maximum amount of carbon dissolved is purely a function of the temperature (This can be shown by an Iron-Cementite phase diagram). For these steels, an austenitization temperature of around 1475 ˚F is the most common. At this temperature, you can dissolve 0.95% carbon in solution. This means that for both Shiro 2 and 1 the carbon in solution is somewhere around there (the dissolution of cementite happens pretty quickly in these very low alloy steels).
Now this presents an issue as in these relatively simple systems there is a large amount of research (DM me if you are at all interested in this) that suggests this leads to the formation of plate martensite as opposed to lathe martensite. Plate martensite leads to poor toughness as shown in Dr. Thomas's testing of 1095 and O1. By reducing the carbon content below this 0.95% mark you can probably reduce the amount of plate martensite formed and appreciably increase toughness (compare Dr. Thomas's testing of 1084 to 1095).
The downside is that you are dissolving all the cementite which could lead to quick grain growth if the hold time is too long (a small V addition could help with this). Additionally, you lose the abrasive wear resistance that cementite may be contributing. Given that cementite is quite soft (~70HRC) I highly doubt this will make an appreciable difference as with better toughness you could take Shiro 3 to higher hardness than Shiro 2 or 1 while maintaining the same or better toughness. In theory, Shiro 3 has lower achievable hardness than Shiro 2 or 1 but in reality, these steels are very rarely HTed to anywhere near their maximum hardness.
Put simply using Shiro 3 vs Shiro 2 or 1 could give a significant bump in toughness while losing a small amount of wear resistance at a given hardness.
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