Michi
I dislike attempts to rewrite history
Laab Kua from northern Thailand. With home-made Sai Krok Isan, sticky rice, and salad with a Thai spicy dressing.
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DamageInc
Idiot
Had an unplanned splurge after stumbling upon a very good sale. All things I've been wanting for a while at around half off.
Large 21cm granite stone mortar and pestle, coarse microplane, and a kitchenaid meat grinder attachment.
Large 21cm granite stone mortar and pestle, coarse microplane, and a kitchenaid meat grinder attachment.
Michi
I dislike attempts to rewrite history
All worthwhile things to have around. I couldn't live without any of these. Especially the meat grinder, which I originally bought for my sausage making. But, since then, I find myself using it for things other than sausage. In particular, I haven't bought minced meat in ages. I now make it myself, in exactly the coarseness I want, and with exactly the cuts and fat content I want.
DamageInc
Idiot
I've been without a meat grinder for a year or so since I left my old standalone machine with a family member. Buying pre-ground meat at the grocery store just wasn't the same, often ground way too finely and lacking in taste so it's more like a paste than little pieces of meat. Looking forward to using it a lot.
DamageInc
Idiot
I'll be using it for carrots soon.I was using that same monster Microplane on a big block of cheddar last night.
Meat grinder is sooo high on my list. I want to try using it to extrude ramen since I can’t get fresh noods in the boonies and rolling them out by hand is a pain, and it eats pasta machines.
SuperLougat
Well-Known Member
have you tried an extruder? I know the trick to extrusion with regular pasta dough is to get a crumbly dough that falls apart easily, but also clumps when you squish it together (essentially, low hydration). maybe that could be replicated with noodle dough although i'm not sure if the hydration behaves in the same way, and I have a feeling the meat grinder might not produce consistent noodles
That’s exactly my line of thinking! On the grinder I was looking at, you can remove the cutting blade so it should in theory essentially be an extruder with a disc that has 6mm holes
Why not a Kitchen Aid with dedicated pasta attachments?
https://www.kitchenaid.com/countert...attachaccess:na:na:10026612128:106753419291:c
I’m always wondering about this attachment. Anyone here have firsthand experience w/ it? If I could make bucatini at home I would be ****ing thrilled.Why not a Kitchen Aid with dedicated pasta attachments?
https://www.kitchenaid.com/countertop-appliances/stand-mixers/attachments/see-all.html?plp=:relevance:category:CountertopAppliancesStandMixersAttachments&plpView=list¤tPage=0&cmp=kad:wp_sda|01|00390|br|se|t09|p81|zz|v04_kasa_ppc:gas:txt:txt:cpc:br_sea_attachaccess:na:na:10026612128:106753419291:c
I do not. I thought my daughter did but I just checked and she only uses the roller.
I have been wondering about this myself. I thought this was somewhat helpful (although it would be great if someone here could chime in):
Extruded pasta doughs are way drier than regular pasta dough. The extrusion process compresses the dough.
I have no idea how good this recipe is, but looks legit to me.
https://www.atelierlalune.com/2020/...be extruded,potato starch to prevent sticking.
Why not a Kitchen Aid with dedicated pasta attachments?
https://www.kitchenaid.com/countertop-appliances/stand-mixers/attachments/see-all.html?plp=:relevance:category:CountertopAppliancesStandMixersAttachments&plpView=list¤tPage=0&cmp=kad:wp_sda|01|00390|br|se|t09|p81|zz|v04_kasa_ppc:ga
I had considered that, but I figured the extruder disc on a grinder would give a rounder shape which may be nicer. Then again, the flatter shape of rolled noodles may hold onto broth better. It’s weird how little info there is on a dish as famous as ramen on something as important as noodle shape, beyond “this shape is traditionally served with this style”.
The main reason I was looking at the meat grinder on the ankarsrum that I’ve heard of both kitchenaid attachments and manual pasta rollers being frequent victims of ramen, and the Ankarsrum folks seemed pretty confident the machine and attachment could handle it with no problems when I asked them.
This is the video that got me thinking about it right at the 5 minute mark. Just with the grinder discs instead of the pasta discs and the cutter removed.
Michi
I dislike attempts to rewrite history
I would advise caution. Pasta dough for extruded pasta is extremely tough and requires a huge amount of pressure, likely more than what that attachment can handle. Moreover, once you have successfully extruded the pasta, the real problem is how to get it to dry. It turns out that this is a very deep rabbit hole indeed.
Alex did a whole series on this. I recommend watching that before making any buying decision. I linked the first of the extruded pasta videos here. There are quite a few more, part of a 17-title playlist about pasta that is worth watching. The long and short of it is "don't try to make dried extruded pasta at home."
Ya I’ve always dismissed it as unlikely to work well. I don’t feel the need to investigate further
Michi
I dislike attempts to rewrite history
If this would actually work, you can bet your bottom dollar that everyone would be doing it already.
In other words, no, a meat grinder doesn't work for making pasta.
拉麵 means “pulled noodles”.
Wouldn’t an extruder make the opposite?
Wouldn’t an extruder make the opposite?
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SuperLougat
Well-Known Member
If you mean the grinder, fat chance it'll work for extrusion
If you're referring to the "Gourmet Pasta Press" attachment which kitchenaid also sells (that has a buccatini die), I have one and have used it a few times. I actually have it listed for sale here but i'm probably going to withdraw it and re-evaluate my use of it. This is my opinion as a home-cook, as well as in comparison to some much more professional pasta extruders I have access to at work as a professional.
Kitchen-aid recommends that you use a basic egg pasta and feed that into the extruder. That is, in simple terms, a f*cking horrible idea. It's a nightmare to clean up, and you don't get anywhere near the taste you're looking for with extruded pasta shapes. You want a dough that's 100% durum semolina. Your moisture content is up to you, but the best choice is a dough with COLD water as the only hydration. Ideally, stay between 28% and 35% hydration, that's the sweet spot.
Mix your dough in the bowl of the stand mixer, slowly adding your water while beating the semolina. It takes about 10 minutes, but you want a shaggy, almost sandy dough that clumps together when you press it in your hand, but easily crumbles apart if you rub it between your fingers.
Once you pass it through the extruder, you'll have "dry" pasta. It will still have moisture, but i've left batches out on a sheet tray and usually they're mostly dry within 3-4 hours. However, its not shelf stable for a long time, realistically I wouldn't eat it past 2 days at room temp, or 1 week in the fridge. Ideally it should be consumed within that time, but it has a similar taste to the storebought stuff.
^ That's what you can do at home
Industrial level extruders use brass parts, which allow for a much more textured surface on the pasta coming out of the machine. They also usually have a brass auger, which is much more durable than the plastic auger in the kitchenaid model (although if you're only doing this for home, you should be fine with the plastic one). I've found a website that seems to sell brass dies for the kitchenaid extruder, but i'm still looking into them.
These brass dies make a boatload of difference in the texture that the exterior of your pasta will have. It's almost night and day. If you go to a grocery store and are picking between pastas, you'll see ones labeled "Bronze Dried" - take a look at the texture compared to one that's extruded through teflon, it's shockingly different. Some people claim that it makes a difference in the way that the sauce holds, but this has been proven false (link). All it does is provide a better feel when eating it, but that's subjective (no it's not, it is 10000% better)
Key point: Dried = shelf stable. In both cases (home, and professional), WE DO NOT DRY THE PASTA OUT. It is insanely difficult to succesfully dry pasta in any setting, so much so that we don't even do it at the restaurant I work at (and we do a LOT of pasta). Freezing or refrigeration extends its shelf life, but it's not a magic button. The pasta itself is already pretty low moisture though, so by the standards of "dry", sure, it may not hold as long, but it is what you're looking for quality wise.
TLDR:
The kitchenaid pasta extruder works decently enough for a home cook, and can make nice extruded pastas, but don't expect insanely good quality unless you're willing to put thousands into a pasta extruding setup. I'm looking into more affordable home options ATM and will probably make a post about this elsewhere at some point as i find more information
Anyway thanks for coming to my ted talk, I just got off work and needed to let off some steam lol
I look forward to hearing more of your research lol
A meat grinder is conceptually just an extruder with a blade attachment for mincing thrown in the mix. I would bet that 98% of the pasta in the world is extruded. Ramen is definitely less frequent, I would guess it’s due to the fraying the drier dough sees under the pressure leading to increased loss rates. There’s quite a few home users who have experimented with various extruders , and yes even meat grinders. The result generally seems to end up with the familiar frayed edges, beyond that in terms of texture I can’t speak to. What Alex was doing was trying to make dried pasta at home, which is an entirely different beast. I’ve never read about a home user drying ramen, it’s either fridged for use that week or frozen for future usage. He also chose the cheapest extruder, which was in a way doomed to fail, even if it was higher hydration pasta instead of ramen. More plastic, more flex, more breakable bits.
拉麵 means “pulled noodles”.
Wouldn’t an extruder make the opposite?
Given that every ramen factory uses pasta rollers on steroids, and I believe it’s common for shops to purchase noodles from a locally factory, I think they’ve also all missed the memo on pulling
Edit: to save everyone else sometime watching Frenchguy (my tolerance for him has dropped over the years), he did in fact end up buying what I suspect is pretty similar to the machines @SuperLougat referenced, 4-5k euros. He showed the parts and it’s still just a mixer + extruder. The key things it’s built durable enough to not destroy itself, seems like it can heat the head to make extrusion smoother and applies much more force which helps with the ragged edges. Obviously way too large and too expensive for a home user. I wonder if there’s a small scale electric actuator piston set up that can be used to load the system, force the dough through then be reset. It’d solve the issue of dealing with the auger, allow more force to be applied and probably be a better alternative to something like a hydraulic press since high PSI lines around people is never a good plan. You’d be dealing with discrete batches instead of continuous which isn’t great but if you know how much dough you need per bowl of noodles it’s a compromise
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from wki and i think this makes a lot sense.A meat grinder is conceptually just an extruder with a blade attachment for mincing thrown in the mix. I would bet that 98% of the pasta in the world is extruded. Ramen is definitely less frequent, I would guess it’s due to the fraying the drier dough sees under the pressure leading to increased loss rates. There’s quite a few home users who have experimented with various extruders , and yes even meat grinders. The result generally seems to end up with the familiar frayed edges, beyond that in terms of texture I can’t speak to. What Alex was doing was trying to make dried pasta at home, which is an entirely different beast. I’ve never read about a home user drying ramen, it’s either fridged for use that week or frozen for future usage. He also chose the cheapest extruder, which was in a way doomed to fail, even if it was higher hydration pasta instead of ramen. More plastic, more flex, more breakable bits.
Given that every ramen factory uses pasta rollers on steroids, and I believe it’s common for shops to purchase noodles from a locally factory, I think they’ve also all missed the memo on pulling
"Ramen is a Japanese adaptation of Chinese wheat noodle soups.[11][12][13][14][15] It is first recorded to have appeared in Yokohama Chinatown in the early 20th century.[16][17] Although ramen takes its name from lāmiàn, it did not originate from the hand-pulled lamian noodles of northern China, since the noodles used in ramen are cut, not pulled.[7] Rather, ramen is derived from southern Chinese noodle dishes such as char siu tangmian (roast pork noodle soup) from Guangdong, and rousi tangmian (sliced meat noodle soup) from Jiangnan.[18][8][6][19] This is reflective of Yokohama Chinatown's demographics, as most Chinese settlers in the district came from the cities of Guangzhou and Shanghai.[20][21]"
SuperLougat
Well-Known Member
Actually, one of the main selling points of using brass is that it doesn't get too hot. Extrusion is a pretty friction heavy process, and brass cools a little easier than a lot of other options.
If your auger or die gets too hot, you run the risk of partially cooking the pasta as it's extruded which is not good for consistent texture/quality.
Some professionals swear even by implementing a system to cool their extruder, which can be seen in one of Alex's youtube videos where he visits a restaurant that does dried pasta (apparently the only one in the world). The colder it is, arguably the better. It also seems to have an effect on the stiffness of the pasta that comes out of the die, but I'll need to find a way to test that.
Maximum hardware
sumis
Senior Member
1. why not just hand cut the noodles?
2. extruded dry pasta of the greatest quality is readily available to buy, and you won't be able to get a better result at home (without paying an unreasonable price in time and money and trouble).
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2. extruded dry pasta of the greatest quality is readily available to buy, and you won't be able to get a better result at home (without paying an unreasonable price in time and money and trouble).
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Just look at the pressure required to extrude a high viscosity dough through a small die and it will become clear it's an attempt waiting to fail.
Meat is being chopped by the blade in a meat grinder and thereby becomes sort of more liquidy.
Why not simply pull them ;-)
There was a reasonable episode in 'keuringsdienst van waarde' on pasta making very recently.
only Dutch subtitles though
Meat is being chopped by the blade in a meat grinder and thereby becomes sort of more liquidy.
Why not simply pull them ;-)
There was a reasonable episode in 'keuringsdienst van waarde' on pasta making very recently.
only Dutch subtitles though
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I've used the KA and a couple other mixer attachments for pasta in restaurant and in cooking classes. At best they're ok for cut pasta, did a pretty good job for ravioli sheets. In same environments I've used the Atlas and Atlas type machines. Much better to work with, especially with motor attachment. Resultant product a little better.
I've got a great Italian market that sells fresh pasta near me for my home needs. If I was buying a machine it would be an Atlas w motor.
For the meat grinder, the KA metal grinding attachment is good for household size batches. (They made (make?) a plastic attachment that's a POS)
SuperLougat
Well-Known Member
https://pastidea.com/en/product/pastidea-pasta-machine-3/
Found this one that seems to be residentially sized with commercial quality, and only around 1k euros (still a lot of money but a lot less than some other models)
Found this one that seems to be residentially sized with commercial quality, and only around 1k euros (still a lot of money but a lot less than some other models)
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Ahhhh yeah that does make sense. In the video he mentions the initial amounts (looks like 2-3 inches of dough) should be discarded since the machine hasn’t warmed up yet, but that could be a language barrier issue
