SKD 12, SKD11/SLD. Help me pick one

Japanese Knives - by Tokushu Knife
Kitchen Knife Forums

Help Support Kitchen Knife Forums:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
T

TonyZ

KKF Supporting Member
Joined
Jan 10, 2020
Messages
60
Reaction score
71
Location
Austin
So I am thinking of picking up a 210 semistainless or stainless knife because I thinned the herd and only have carbon knives now. My main use case is when I am cooking with friends or at a gathering so I don't really want to bring what I have currently. My old kohetsu HAP40 gyuto filled this use case because it held an edge forever but I sold it. It wasn't getting much use at home during covid because of the flat grind. Now I want to replace it with something shorter.

So here are my thoughts and questions

It is my understanding that SKD11 is synonymous with SLD, is this true?

Based on the reading I have been doing, it looks like SKD 12 is favored over SKD 11/SLD for ease of sharpening. I have seen some mixed reviews of SKD11/SLD, some people think its glassy and others seem fine with it overall. I haven't seen any complaints about skd12.

I've seen SKD11/SLD taken higher than SDK12, is the edge retention of SKD11/SLD markedly better than SKD 12?


Lastly, these are the knives on my list of options. My general criteria are:

Good edge retention (improvement over carbon)
Thin, middleweight grind. This is a big one, I am trying to avoid thicc bois. All of these look pretty good but choil shots are deceiving.

Help me rule out what to get.

Yoshi amekiri skd (KNS)
Yoshi SKD (EE)
Kono Sumiiro SLD
Kono SKD tsuchime (Tosho lists an SKD12 version and CK.. lists a SKD11 version)
Kono YS (have only heard good things about this knife)


To be honest this might be a pointless exercise, I feel like I can randomly pick one and end up happy.
 
I think the YS, while made by Yoshikane for Kono uses the same proprietary steel blend as the HD2. Which is a different but also high performance semi stainless.

If you’re looking at the sumiiro you may also want to consider the Nihei house brand, which is who makes it. Nihei’s owner apprenticed at yoshikane and likely touched many of the yoshi knives we own. Between any Nihei and Yoshikane knives you’re probably going to have similar heat treat, so it’s profile and geometry and aesthetic. The ones sold under the kono brand are going to be extra fit and finish but also have the konosuke markup.
 
TonyZ said:
Any reason why? Just because I will be taking it places? I know the kaeru SS was SLD so yeah I think im gonna consider it as well.
Click to expand...
Well, yeah. It is SLD with a heat treat that seems tougher than most SLD so it is easier to sharpen and can deal with some abuse. The edge holding is still good and better than carbon. It is relatively cheap, so even if your guests break it not the end of the world. A good midweigh, which is what you want. Like you said any of the other knives you are looking at will work too.
 
SKD11 = SLD = D2 (with some formula variation from the steel mills)
SKD12 = A2

When I was reading and learning about steels there was a quote by some famous knifemaker that went something like "D-2 takes a lousy edge and holds it forever." It doesn't seem to be a favorite steel around here. SKD12 seems to get high marks from everyone.
 
Yeah, @Barmoley is making sense. Kaeru is a good call here. Great beater.
I've never tried this one (and it's SKD11), but if you want to take a flier this one could be intersting...
https://www.epicedge.com/shopexd.asp?id=92162
Otherwise, from your list, I like Yoshi hammered then Amerikiri, in that order. (Others prefer Amerikiri, it's a bit thinner. There's a good thread from a pass-around that reviews Amerikiri in detail.) YS is nice but is mostly about looks and got crazy pricey lately. Never tried the other two Kono.
 
Sounds liked it’s for tougher tasks, I have YS but I won’t recommend it either, especially around crowded environment, cause the edge is very, thinner than laser, more on delicate side, I have to baby it cause felt liked it might chip on tougher tasks so I only saved it for specific tasks like push cutting piles of cucumbers.
 
No personal experience with the two steels.

What I read around here and on some other places, those 2 steels are so close together that in practise you can't tell the difference. The maker and the threatment are of way more importance to the performance of the steel.

Feel free to correct me..
 
SeattleB said:
"D2 takes a lousy edge and holds it forever." It doesn't seem to be a favorite steel around here. SKD12 seems to get high marks from everyone.
Click to expand...
I've read this too and it is a catchy phrase, so people like to repeat it over and over. Would be good to have the context in which this was said though. D2 and SLD can take a great edge when correct tools and techniques are used. It is more difficult to sharpen so getting a good edge is more difficult, so it wouldn't surprise me if the origin of the phrase had more to do with this than anything else. This is also the reason why many here like it less. It is more difficult to sharpen.

Kawa said:
No personal experience with the two steels.

What I read around here and on some other places, those 2 steels are so close together that in practise you can't tell the difference. The maker and the threatment are of way more importance to the performance of the steel.

Feel free to correct me..
Click to expand...

The steels are very different. Some around here seem to be able to tell the difference between slightly different heat treats of white 2, some claim they can't tell the difference between white 2 and hap40. Depending on where in the spectrum you are, you might or might not be able to tell the difference. The steels are very different though.

In the perfect world the sharpening and overall knife geometry would be customized for the steel and heat treat used. In reality this doesn't happen. I suspect that many of our judgements and experiences are colored by our sharpening. Most sharpen all knives the same way. Once you get the muscle memory you don't adjust sharpening to the steel. So some of the preferences come from sharpening working well with the steel. It could be that a different steel would drastically outperform the favorite if only the angle of the sharpening was changed, or the grid, or the stone, etc.
 
Is SLD really that bad at sharpening? I've never experienced it being that much worse than any other stainless. Its not white steel, but neither is ginsan, sg2, vg10, etc.
 
Kawa said:
No personal experience with the two steels.

What I read around here and on some other places, those 2 steels are so close together that in practise you can't tell the difference. The maker and the threatment are of way more importance to the performance of the steel.

Feel free to correct me..
Click to expand...
I have knives in both. SKD stains more readily, but that's the only noticeable difference
 
I just got a Yoshikane tsuchime SKD 210mm gyuto and it is awesome. My favorite and most used knife now.

Epicurean Edge: Japanese and European professional chefs knives

For quite a bit less money, I also have a Hiragatake tsuchime SLD 180mm gyuto that performs amazing. Comes with a nice ebony handle and is in stock in 210mm and 240mm.

Epicurean Edge: Japanese and European professional chefs knives

I find both steels take a very sharp edge, and hold it for a long time in my non-professional use. I reach for the Yoshi first because of the length and well, I just think it's gorgeous, not that the Hira is a bad looking knife. Yoshi has a little better food release, but that could be due to the different lengths. I use the Hira for tasks that I would be worried about using the more expensive knife on, such as portioning a rack of lamb into chops. I plan on getting a Hira in 210mm soon to keep at our vacation condo, replacing a Tsunehisa Ginsan Nashiji Gyuto 210mm that I find is a little thin for my taste.

IMG_6585.jpg


This pic is of the Hiragatake 165mm petty I also have, don't have a picture of the 180mm... how did that happen? lol!

IMG_5769.jpg
 
Kawa said:
No personal experience with the two steels.

What I read around here and on some other places, those 2 steels are so close together that in practise you can't tell the difference. The maker and the threatment are of way more importance to the performance of the steel.

Feel free to correct me..
Click to expand...

In my limited experience comparing a Kono SLD vs Yoshi SKD, the SLD is noticably more difficult and less enjoyable to get a great edge on than SKD. Obviously heat treat, geometry, how many beers I drank before sharpening, etc all can skew the result, but I didn't find the two steels particularly similar on the stones.
 
My Itinomonn semi stainless has 'SKD' stamped on the tang. Over time the core does patina slightly (but no more than that) leading me to believe it is skd12. It sharpens up pretty easily, almost carbon steel like. Based on this I would buy anything skd12 without hesitation, I find it a really good balance between convenience and sharpenability. I am a home user btw.
 
chiffonodd said:
Yet sometimes yoshi (and, by extension, kono) just calls the steel "SKD" without specifying whether that means SKD12 or SKD11 (SLD). Do we just assume that they mean "SKD12" when they call their steel "SKD"?
Click to expand...
I believed the Konosuke SKD refers to SKD12/A2, cause they already have SLD line(sumiiro). I heard Konosuke SKD can patina overtime liked the SKD12, SLD almost stainless, doesn’t patina overtime.

If someone can confirm the sumiiro line won’t patina then I guess that’s the easier way to tell the difference between SKD12 and SLD.
 
Jason183 said:
I believed the Konosuke SKD refers to SKD12/A2, cause they already have SLD line(sumiiro). I heard Konosuke SKD can patina overtime liked the SKD12, SLD almost stainless, doesn’t patina overtime.

If someone can confirm the sumiiro line won’t patina then I guess that’s the easier way to tell the difference between SKD12 and SLD.
Click to expand...
Has not patina'd for me since I got it a month ago - the sumiiro that is.

Edit: My Sukenari HAP40 took about 4 months before it showed a clear patina so I'm assuming it could still happen eventually. Kohetsu HAP40 showed a light patina after a couple of preps.
 
My beater is a Konosuke HD2 western 240. I also bring it to friends' places when necessary. It's monosteel and really tough. It's almost stainless (never patina in my case although I've never left it wet for extended time). It's easy to sharpen and holds the edge for a decent amount of time. And it's only $250 at CKTG, cheaper than most nice SKD/SLD offerings that I can think of.
 
rise....FROM YOUR GRAAAAAVE!

Resurrecting this thread to ask if the Gesshin stones are okay to use with SLD. I might get a Kaeru SLD for a “house knife”, but I’ve read my stones are best with the simple carbons I own.
 
BillHanna said:
rise....FROM YOUR GRAAAAAVE!

Resurrecting this thread to ask if the Gesshin stones are okay to use with SLD. I might get a Kaeru SLD for a “house knife”, but I’ve read my stones are best with the simple carbons I own.
Click to expand...
Yes. It's SLD, not rex121.
 
lol 🤷🏾‍♂️ I’m real dumb about that stuff since I don’t care, but the house needs something a bit resistant.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Latest posts

Back
Top